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How to aggressively start a fight!

Discussion in 'General Strategy' started by TRIX, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    {>☆ UPDATE2:Edited some things, put in a section on my experiences in aggressive vs. conservative(not for everyone though)
    UPDATE:Gonna see if aggro starts are worse than defense starts, also I still don't have a Beo for myself and there's some conflicting opinions on his grab reach so TBC, love you guys.☆<}


    Something I've been doing for a long time now that seems to work even where I've gotten in high-level AI nowadays is to--depending on the character--either toss out a quick throw or a trip at the start of the match.
    (Beware! The majority of these are trips, a dissapointing lack in variety tsk, tsk.)

    So why start aggressively vs. starting conservatively? Not everyone should do it in every situation, but some characters have a really easy time getting away with a cheeky swipe up or down, wich is super cool since you can get some free damage and zoning sometimes. The zoning, as realized through the the lovely MoistTerrific below, sets you up for that mid-battle stage where you can perhaps get a well-timed merry-go-rillia off, or to where you don't have to be all too concerned with giving your Peacock some room or your Valentine some time to do an unblockable charge attack. Trips and throws, if successfully landed, also increase the BB meter by much more than the standard hit, which is useful for early-start BBs such as Number13. The last reason I have to vouch for my(personally) beloved aggressive starts is that if you use the right character for the job, you're highly unlikely to be punished for it, and if you are blocked or throw-breaked you will most likely be safe due to positioning. (The new nerf to enemy throwbreak recovery frames might be a hassle though, be careful)

    Now this isn't always a good idea! Take this with a grain of salt and your own experience since it's unwise to throw a Cerebella or to use a really risky trip attack such as Fillia's in high level AI.

    Please post any concerns or revises you have in mind for this list, I'll be glad to read them and answer questions/edit this post.



    ☆Beowulf | Unconfirmed|

    ☆Big Band | I don't play him really, but both his grab and trip are well-ranged |
    Almost no vulnerable recovery frames. Grab or Trip as pleased.

    ☆Cerebella | Trip |
    Unfortunetly this trip has some punishable recovery frames and can be hurt--though only if the enemy is far enough to not need to block it, which is negated by using it from the starting distance. It's unlikely an enemy will be able to counterattack at the starting points since Cerebella's body is away from her swipe and out of jab reach once the enemy is done blocking, so there's plenty of time to defend against the AI, and there's a super-fast startup as well. Second best trip

    ☆Eliza | Longest trip range in the game with shortest grab range ever concieved |
    While Eliza can activate trip and sail over to the other side of the map, this is almost useless in high AI since it's beyond punishable. Can be abused in low-tiers, however. The high startup time means most likely it's going to be blocked. Instead of the trip, try either dashing back and then tripping forward when the enemy AI dashes towards you--or tapping the 5-hit ground combo from the start, the third hit has enough range to reach them and unless they trip attack you they'll likely be hit by the first low-range attacks if they do try to initiate.

    ☆Fillia | Trip, her grab is barely out of range, unfortunetly |
    Warning! Fillia has one of the worst trips in game! This move can be easily blocked and if so it's almost certain the enemy will land a full combo on you. Try for a different start, such as dashing back and tripping when the enemy dashes to catch up with you--same as Eliza save for the ground combo.

    ☆Painwheel | Trip |
    A comparably small amount of range that extends out from her hurtboxes, so this trip is alright to use. Be careful that Painwheel can be susceptable to a counterattack if you don't block in time, since the distance of this trip isn't too far from her body she can be outranged even with her decent recovery. Be cautious around Big Bands, Cerebellas, and Fillias.

    ☆Parasoul | Best trip in the game |
    Parasoul's trip is practically no hurtbox, and though it has a wonky start time and recovery time, the range is solid and the recovery puts Parasoul back the farthest of the cast, making it blockable yet unpunishable.

    ☆Peacock | Best throw in the game |
    Super long range with super short throwbreak time. If you use this at its max range and end up whiffing it, the enemy will definetly be out of range to counterattack before Peacock can block. Her trip has enough range but is almost as punishable as Fillia's.

    ☆Valentine | Trip |
    Valentine's trip is similar to Parasoul's in that it has a decent range and it sets her back safely. The difference is that there's more startup time than Eliza's trip, but this doesn't matter much for defense since it's extremely hard to punish her for this when, like Parasoul's trip, there's practically no hurtboxes. Val's trip does have a longer range than Parasoul's, yes, but since the startup makes it more blockable, Valentine's trip is therefore nominated third-best in the game.
     
    #1 TRIX, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
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  2. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    Let me know if this should go under "New player guides and FAQs" instead please! I'm a little new to forums so let's just blame my not-knowing on that >.>
     
  3. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Active Member

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    I've been wondering how to play more aggressive, since i usually start off with just blocking, waiting for the AI to act.
    I'll be giving this a try, thanks :)
     
  4. Wulfden

    Wulfden Active Member

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    I know for Beowulf his trip is pretty quick to unleash on others! But block his tap combo and essentially you KNOW your done for! He's mainly on the "Block till you see an opening and release the Wulf" for me since I have wulfsbane. That said, due three grabs or three complete combos with air and he gets hype mode, meaning at lower tier AI you can easily grab to your heart's content as his grabs become unbreakable!

    Alternatively, his grabs force you to be pretty up close, so, if you wanna be aggressive, you'll want to start away from the opponent and let them either do their charge attack at a distance or do an attack that leaves them vulnerable and then use Wulf Shoot. You can also safely use his trip attack as well as soon as the match starts since it requires little to no startup, as a teeny reminder!

    Another idea is to use his swipe attack, it's super quick and I like to use it asap when the next fighter jumps in. Time it right, and you'll easily interrupt them as they are still coming in to fight and even stop them from doing any moves as his moves are fast enough to do so! (Just remember, Beo's moves are usually very punishable on their own to trade up for their speed and power. Be wise when fighting!)
     
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  5. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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  6. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    No worries man, I appreciate the other look at things. I see what you're saying and it's kinda difficult to bring up any point for aggressive starts other than the characters that have a lot of success in it like Parasoul, have a rare chance that the enemy can block her and if they do she's still safe so in my experience I'm not risking or sacrificing much. But starting safer is definitely better for Filia and Eliza and so yeah >.> I try to start more conservatively with them.
    Honestly though I'm not too attached to my opinion since I'm not really a top-tier player at all, I might just try the all-around conservative approach next pf and see if I place higher/have an easier time, despite how some characters have low-risk. That low risk might be stopping my streaks or it might not.

    Thanks for the info--weird how two players can think so differently about his grab, I dunno who's word to trust on this @~~@ I'll put both in, then, thank you!
     
  7. Luke

    Luke Active Member

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    If i start with eliza, painwheel, bigband, or cerebella. i would swipe right then ground combo. The attack is different from when starting with a tap. I dont know what the name is the attack, but swipe right is the one where if i follow with ground combo i get a longer starting reach, and if i continue to swipe i lunch the enemy accross the screen. The pro is if i get lucky, i can finish one fighter without them landing even one hit. And this works for tag-in too, but timimg is harder.

    Since you are looking for a more aggressive style, you can look into this too.
     
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  8. moisterrific

    moisterrific Well-Known Member

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    The only way to achieve a flawless victory is if you land the first hit and then successfully snowball the enemy team.



    Personally I've found Big Band to be the easiest character to hit the opponent first, since his jab has a long distance and is fast enough to work at match start. If the opponent is blocking you can just stop mid ground combo and use Noise Cancel to stun them, works every time. (see example: https://gfycat.com/PastelFancyBarnacle)
     
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  9. Daikodugo

    Daikodugo New Member

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    It really depends on how finessed your reaction times are and your processing speed.

    If you're a slow guy like me, those higher-ranking AIs will obliterate you to quarks.

    Dashing is something I do because of that. It's safe as hell, and with Valentine, I just dash attack, and just combo the living matter out of some punks like Cerebella.
     
  10. moisterrific

    moisterrific Well-Known Member

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    All it takes is a bit of practice and knowledge of what works and what doesn’t, my reaction time is terrible and I can make it work. You just gotta believe.
     
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  11. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    The problem with that is that the ai will block your dash and get a full combo off on you once you reach past a 9x streak, the ai most likely won't be blocking if you aren't dashing, and so they don't often put up the block for that third Eliza hit, and you can stop your combo and block right after that third hit if it is blocked. It's still risky but generally works rather well.
    Thank you for adding to this thread and sharing your tips, by the way!
     
  12. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    Oh thank you very much! (that Merry-Go-Rillia timing is perfect, by the way)

    Cerebella can easily combo someone into absolute oblivion like that because so many of her moves link together so well, and she has good damage. For a character like Parasoul where your best combos seem to(... so far from testing) be tied to block busters and almost no sm other than Napalm Shot/ane sometimes Egret Moto combo--I've really liked the meter gain those trip starts give. :D
    You gotta be reeeeally crafty to combo someone to death like that.
     
  13. Luke

    Luke Active Member

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    Ohhh so that what a dash was. Now bigband made so much more sense.
     
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  14. zzMedVeDzz

    zzMedVeDzz New Member

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    What is trip? Slide forward?backwards? downwards? Upwards?
     
  15. Shawesome

    Shawesome Active Member

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    The downward swipe that makes the opponent trip on their face.
     
  16. moisterrific

    moisterrific Well-Known Member

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    I have like the most min-maxed Harlequin with over 10K ATK so it's really easy for her to speedrun pretty much every team.

    Parasoul can start the fight aggro via sweep but personally I've found it safer to back dash, then use a well timed G1 when they run up close. I haven't played her enough to find a solid combo yet.
     
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  17. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    Luckyyyy ☆-☆ I wanna get my Parasite Weave up to that.

    Napalm shot can give her a ground combo reset if the enemy doesn't have any opposing SMs or BBs most of the time, other than that I like (dash-groundfull, launch,optional canopy bounce, napalm shot, motor brigade, silent scope) as a combo. :D

    Oh what's G1? That sounds good >.>
     
  18. moisterrific

    moisterrific Well-Known Member

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    G1 is her first ground hit, you know - that animation where she pistol whips her opponent with a downward swing.



    This is what I mean by what I previously said, if you time the tap properly you can always hit them first, I think this works against everyone except Painwheel.
     
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  19. Ryan Harrison

    Ryan Harrison Active Member

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    Ey das me
     
  20. TRIX

    TRIX New Member

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    Aw thanks man, I appreciate it, gotta try this out and update the thread.
     

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