Proposed buffs to underpowered fighters

[moisterrific]

Here are some of my proposed buffs and improvements to underpowered fighters to make them more fun and useful (as well as making some of their signature ability descriptions more clear)

Bad Hair Day
Old:
5% chance on HIT to inflict BLEED for 7 seconds
10% bonus to CRIT RATE if opponent has BLEED

New:
10% chance on HIT to inflict BLEED for 10 seconds
10% chance on HIT to to inflict a random negative COMBAT EFFECT for 10 seconds if the opponent has BLEED


Scrub
Old:
Teammates in reserve gain BLOCKBUSTER meter 20% faster

New:
Teammates in reserve gain BLOCKBUSTER meter 50% faster


Sheltered
Old:
Increases CRIT RATE by 10%
Increases teammates CRIT RATE by 10%

New:
Increases CRIT RATE by 15% and CRIT DAMAGE by 30%. Increases teammates CRIT RATE by 15% and CRIT DAMAGE by 30%


Frayed Ends
Old:
15% chance when HIT to inflict BLEED for 7 seconds

New:
20% chance when HIT to inflict BLEED for 10 seconds


Decrypted
Old:
Convert 3 enemy BUFFS to BLEED when triggering Sekhmet

New:
50% chance on HIT to convert 3 enemy BUFFS to BLEED while in Sekhmet Mode


Rage Appropriate
Old:
Once per match, gain HEAVY REGEN for 5 seconds when HEALTH drops below 25%

New:
Once per match, gain HEAVY REGEN for 15 seconds when HEALTH drops below 25%


Gray Matter
Old:
Start every match with 20% meter for all BLOCKBUSTERS
Teammates start every match 20% meter for all BLOCKBUSTERS

New:
Increases METER GAIN by 15% and start every match with 15% meter for all BLOCKBUSTERS
Increases teammates METER GAIN by 15% and start every match with 15% meter for all BLOCKBUSTERS


Dread Locks
Old:
When hit, reflect 15% of the incoming damage
If the opponent lands a CRITICAL HIT, the opponent will receive BLEED for 7 seconds

New:
If the opponent lands a CRITICAL HIT, inflict HEAVY BLEED for 10 seconds
When HIT, reflect 100% of the incoming damage if the opponent is suffering from HEAVY BLEED


Last Hope
Old:
Once per match while Valentine is alive, teammates gain HEAVY REGEN for 10 seconds when dropping below 25% HEALTH
Once per match when defeated, RESURRECT with 50% HEALTH

New:
Once per match while Valentine is alive, teammates gain HEAVY REGEN and IMMUNE for 15 seconds when dropping below 25% HEALTH
Once per match when defeated, RESURRECT with 50% HEALTH and permanent IMMUNE


Princess Pride
Old:
Gain REGEN for 6 seconds when spawning a TEAR
On TEAR DETONATION, immediately recover 6% HEALTH per active TEAR

New:
Gain REGEN for 10 seconds when spawning a TEAR
On TEAR DETONATION, immediately recover 10% HEALTH per active TEAR


That's All Folks!
Old:
Getting HIT has a 10% chance to grant ENRAGE for 10 seconds
Also inflicts ARMOR BREAK on the opponent for 10 seconds

New:
Getting HIT has a 10% chance to gain ENRAGE for 10 seconds (also applies while blocking)
Also inflicts ARMOR BREAK on the opponent for 10 seconds


Buzzkill
Old:
5% chance on HIT to inflict HEAVY BLEED for 10 seconds
Gain ENRAGE for 10 seconds when an opponent's HEALTH drops below 25%

New:
5% chance on HIT to inflict HEAVY BLEED for 10 seconds
25% chance on HIT to gain ENRAGE for 10 seconds if the opponent is suffering from HEAVY BLEED


Private Dick
Old:
5% chance on HIT to stun opponent for 3 seconds

New:
5% chance on HIT to stun opponent for 3 seconds and inflict 100% bonus damage if the opponent is STUNNED


Bloodbath
Old:
If either fighter uses a BLOCKBUSTER, both fighters are afflicted with BLEED for 6 seconds

New:
If either fighter uses a BLOCKBUSTER, both fighters are afflicted with BLEED for 15 seconds


Armed Forces
Old:
Getting HIT has a 5% chance to grant ARMOR for 15 seconds
Also gain UNFLINCHING for 15 seconds

New:
Getting HIT has a 15% chance to gain ARMOR for 6 seconds (also applies while blocking)
Also gain UNFLINCHING for 6 seconds


Oh Mai
Old:
Gain ENRAGE for 8 seconds after defeating an opponent.
When any teammate is defeated, all remaining teammates gain ENRAGE for 15 seconds.

New:
Gain 2x ENRAGE for 15 seconds after defeating an opponent.
When any teammate is defeated, all remaining teammates gain 2x ENRAGE for 15 seconds.


Graveyard Shift
Old:
Gain REGEN for 8 seconds after defeating an opponent.
When any teammate is defeated, all remaining teammates gain REGEN for 15 seconds.

New:
Gain 2x REGEN for 15 seconds after defeating an opponent.
When any teammate is defeated, all remaining teammates gain 2x REGEN for 15 seconds.

I believe all the gold exclusive fighters need a buff to their signature abilities in order to make them just as good as the non-exclusive gold ones. This would give players a better incentive to invest Theonites in character specific relic pulls, because right now there is little reason to try and get exclusive golds unless you really like their palettes.

 

[moisterrific]

Armed Forces is fine as is imo. She's already hard enough to deal with once she has unflinching and armor, but now you also want to give her a way to completely block armor break? I can't afford to always have a Bella or Beowulf on my team to deal with unflinching opponents with their command grabs. When I'm fighting an armed forces with anyone but Bella I use an armor break so that I can' get rid of her armor because my attacks already do so little damage while she has both status effects in play. Now you're proposing turning Bella into a tank where if she procs, you can't fight back because you risk not just proccing her armor again, but also proccing immunity. Your proposed buff would make it such that if armed forces procs, that you can't do anything to fight back. So she'll continue pummeling away at you while you block, and charge her BBs and used SMs back up. Where is the fun in that for everyone else? Oh and iirc Armed Forces has one the highest if not THE highest HP stats in the game as is.

Armed Forces already has the lowest when hit defensive proc at 5%, it defeats her purpose if you can always remove all her stacks of hard earned armor with a simple armor break. After playing Armed Forces countless of times in PF, I've noticed she's not as good as she should be when it comes to surviving blockbusters that do at least 30 hits or more. If she takes an Inferno Brigade head on, she'll often gain at least one or two stacks of armor, but Inferno Brigade will always inflict Heavy Bleed so even when Armed Forces mitigates most of the incoming damage, she'll suffer bleed damage. Another example is taking Argus Agony and Good Fellows head on, again Armed Forces was designed to tank those blockbusters. But both of the BBs can inflict armor break and they often will, which counters Armed Forces entirely and defeats her purpose. My proposed buff wouldn't make her unstoppable, but rather make her more reliable as she should be when she takes a lot of hits in a row. Remember, she only has a 5% chance to gain armor and unflinching, and she only has a low chance to gain immune while she has armor. Armed Forces has one of the highest HP (Private Dick has the highest), but she also has below average attack so it balances out.

What you're proposing essentially turns Dread Locks not just into a 5-20% MINIMUM chance of making fighting her impossible to not kill yourself with all crit reliant fighters, but a 5-20% MINIMUM chance for everyone else to deal with her without risking killing themselves.

You fail to realize that she only reflects damage when the opponent has Heavy Bleed, a debuff that can be easily countered by Immune, Regen, and simply tagging out to another fighter.

Now let's propose a scenario. 50% HP and Defense Dread Locks. Yes most people won't be able to achieve this, but a fair number of the more hardcore players can and likely will if this becomes a thing, and all of the more casual player base are going to have to deal with this, not just us. When fighting this proposed Dread Locks, if you try to take the defensive route and stall out the reflect, you risk time out which guarantees a loss. If you fight her anyway, you kill yourself.

+50% bonus HP is her recommended stat, but if she also has +50% total defence she'll take less damage and therefore reflect less damage back. The hardcore players who can achieve ideal stats for my version of Dread Locks will all likely have very high total FS in PFs where the more casual player base will almost never run into. 3 minutes gives you more than enough time to stall out 10 seconds, or you don't have to stall in the first place if you used a taunt to gain Immune and/or tag out when she inflicts Heavy Bleed.

There's literally no way for crit fighters to do anything. You might as well quit the match right then and there.

You're exaggerating the hypothetical situation, Dread Locks was meant to counter fighters who have high crit rates, my proposed buff would actually make her a true counter instead of the useless piece of trash she is right now. Also when you go into a PF fight, you are presented with 3 different opponents to choose from and I highly doubt all 3 opponents will have maxed out Dread Locks with the best recommended stats. And even if you're forced to inevitably fight a Dread Locks, can't you just tag out the high crit fighter to someone else? My proposed Dread Locks would make her a lot more fun and useful to play and still leave plenty of ways to counter her abilities.

Also let's not forget that the AI isn't just standing there taking hits. They're attacking and defending just like you. They're building meter, grabbing while you block, trying to attack when you leave an opening. You're at risk not just of killing your self but also of the AI killing you. But wait teams aren't just one fighter. What if the opponent had 3 Dread Locks. Are you seeing where I'm going with this?

If Dread Locks is attacking, she won't be able to reflect damage. If she's blocking, then the damage reflected back is significantly less. And you are right, teams aren't just one fighter, you can always have someone else on the team who counters Dread Locks more easily, like Beowulf and Cerebella (because most of their moves are grabs and grabs can never crit, so significantly less chance to get heavy bleed). I highly doubt anyone will have 3 level 50 maxed out Dread Locks all with the best stats. She's a relic exclusive to begin with so there's less chance for everyone to have her (unlike Epic Sax, Harlequin, Untouchable, etc.). And again, Regen and Immunity counters heavy bleed so you can always have a fighter or two on the team who has a taunt that can grant Immunity. After all, taunts being used more often is just what we need in the meta.

I'd like to add that the proposed numbers are not finalized and if the devs do indeed take my suggestions, they will obviously have to adjust the numbers to make sure all the fighters don't turn out to be broken. I'm a strong proponent of fun and balanced gameplay and I would hate it just as much as you if we were to get an Epic Sax 2.0.

 

[Wulfden]

I know this was some time back, but I was actually wondering if it would be a good idea also to allow us to gain bonuses for evolving our cards so to speak.

For example, Cold Stones Beowulf has a 5% chance of stunning an opponent with his throws, which can be turned into 15% with all his nodes bought

That said, if the general formula is: 5/10/15% for a bronze Cold Stones, when we evolve to a silver, I think it maybe a good idea to be able to upgrade those nodes to

10/15/20% and then with gold: 15/20/25% as a whole. Nothing more so to create an OP card, but to also get "stronger" like the other tier cards, but still suffering the same "An evolved bronze will start at level 1, but at max it will still be a bit weaker than a natural silver" thing.

I think the best way to implement that would be to still let you pay for a new node upgrade, at about half the cost of say trying to buy a silver / gold node if you evolved previously, so there is still a way to use theonite or coins and sigils.

While we may not be able to have better abilities over all, I think if we can at least bring up the characters we like, even if they were bronze or silver tiered, to something "more" balanced to their counterparts but still underwhelming, people will find more reasons to stick with their faves or evolve the palette they do like best but may not be competitively the best. This is also maybe to curb the "Well, I want XYZ palette because the tier says so" thinking and bring more of the "Play your faves but there is still an accepted tier list" if that makes sense?

I imagine this would be only for the character ability side, as the attack addition bonuses, health, and energy consumption nodes would need to be looked at if we really go that far, but allowing you to beef up the character's abilities as we evolve would be more helpful in helping those underpowered fighters we may like better than all the rest, aside from your observations and proposed buffs and improvements, Moist

 

[ThanatosDK]

This would be a great change, anything that blurs the lines in the very obvious "tier" list (that everyone anticipates someone to post for some reason) is a welcome addition for the longevity of the game.
Getting more units to be competitive with Harlequin+Armed Forces+Anything would help out UX a ton!

The latest patch definitely helped out the AI more than players, the proposed buff to "underpowered" AF would only create an even bigger wall for players going against it. I know your suggestions were made in a pre-current patch world.

 

[BrolaireOfAsstora]

I really like a lot of the ideas given here, but I've got a few questions, mostly about the silver vals. Would their abilities stack, i.e., defeating an opponent with oh mai grants a 2 stack of enrage, then killing the next boosts it into 4? I'm not sure if she already does this, as I have access to neither and don't know. Next, would Bloodbath still have access to her secondary ability that turns bleed to regen? And lastly, do you think these buffs would really provide any incentive to use the silvers or bronzes? Most of these really only seem to make us want to use the golds even more.

 

[ThanatosDK]

I really like a lot of the ideas given here, but I've got a few questions, mostly about the silver vals. Would their abilities stack, i.e., defeating an opponent with oh mai grants a 2 stack of enrage, then killing the next boosts it into 4? I'm not sure if she already does this, as I have access to neither and don't know. Next, would Bloodbath still have access to her secondary ability that turns bleed to regen? And lastly, do you think these buffs would really provide any incentive to use the silvers or bronzes? Most of these really only seem to make us want to use the golds even more.

I imagine it would increase the duration of that buff for having a higher rating unit. Gaining multiple stacks per single activation of a condition would learn heavily towards being broken and would make it grossly overpowered.

 

[BrolaireOfAsstora]

I imagine it would increase the duration of that buff for having a higher rating unit. Gaining multiple stacks per single activation of a condition would learn heavily towards being broken and would make it grossly overpowered.

Back up a bit please, I'm confused. What would increase the duration of what buff? And yes, in the right conditions its overpowered. But only if you can pull it off. I think it'll really only come into play later in the match.

 

[Wulfden]

Back up a bit please, I'm confused. What would increase the duration of what buff? And yes, in the right conditions its overpowered. But only if you can pull it off. I think it'll really only come into play later in the match.

I believe he got confused like I did with your previous comment. Were you referencing my comment on the idea of upgrading the character's ability slightly with evolving their rarities?

If so, then that is what @ThanatosDK is trying to speak on. If you were however, referring to Moisterrific's post about their own observations and proposals, (which seems to be most likely the case) then Moist will have to speak on that. As you weren't too specific, it had seemed you were trying to ask how the silver Vals would work under my proposal of being able to upgrade their abilities as you evolve them. Hope that helps!

 

[BrolaireOfAsstora]

I believe he got confused like I did with your previous comment. Were you referencing my comment on the idea of upgrading the character's ability slightly with evolving their rarities?

If so, then that is what @ThanatosDK is trying to speak on. If you were however, referring to Moisterrific's post about their own observations and proposals, (which seems to be most likely the case) then Moist will have to speak on that. As you weren't too specific, it had seemed you were trying to ask how the silver Vals would work under my proposal of being able to upgrade their abilities as you evolve them. Hope that helps!

Yeah, okay, I think I know what happened. He may have replied to my comment on accident, and looking at yours now makes more sense. But to answer your question, I was wondering if the buffs granted by the ideas would allow them to stack. I hadn't seen your comment at the time of writing mine, and was asking about them to Moist. Thank you for helping clear things up though!

 

[Wulfden]

Yeah, okay, I think I know what happened. He may have replied to my comment on accident, and looking at yours now makes more sense. But to answer your question, I was wondering if the buffs granted by the ideas would allow them to stack. I hadn't seen your comment at the time of writing mine, and was asking about them to Moist. Thank you for helping clear things up though!

No sweat! Always here to help after all!

 

[ThanatosDK]

Back up a bit please, I'm confused. What would increase the duration of what buff? And yes, in the right conditions its overpowered. But only if you can pull it off. I think it'll really only come into play later in the match.

I'm referencing your example. The way I understood your comment is: if we upgraded a character whose special gave a stack of something, the upgraded version would give two stacks instead of one. Instead of the upgraded character's special giving more stacks I'm saying that for the balance of the game it would be better to instead increase the duration of that buff rather than add stacks.

For example, if you were to upgrade blood drive painwheel to Gold then her special that puts a bleed/heavy bleed for 5/7/9 would instead be 7/9/11 or something along those lines. Instead of give two stacks of bleed/heavy bleed.