1. [2018/06/22]
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There needs to be an incentive to fight unpopular Defense Teams

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ryouhi, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's a bit early to say this, but since the update came out, apparently noone wants to battle my team.
    The past 2 days i haven't gotten any points to claim at all.
    And i can't blame them, putting up Ultraviolent Peacock, Resonant Evil and General Surgeon, i probably wouldn't pick this team to fight against either.

    So, while letting us actually set our own Defense teams is already a huge improvement over the earlier mechanics of Prize Fights, now you'd probably gain more points by putting up fighters with weaker abilities, so people pick your team more often.

    One suggestion i have which may bring more traffic to "unpopular" team compositions, could be this:

    Instead of choosing only one team at a given time to fight and then refreshing the opponent list after, how about giving players the option to fight the remaining teams as well, for a bonus?

    So beating one of three opponents per refresh gives you no bonus, beating two out of three gives you perhaps a few thousand coins and beating all three opponents assigned to you awards you with 5 theonite.

    These bonuses are just examples, but giving players an incentive to try beating harder team compositions should be rewarded, otherwise people will always default to fighting the easiest team available.

    But again, perhaps i'm jumping the gun here - what's you experience with Defense Teams?
    How many people have fought your teams yet?
     
  2. Yew49

    Yew49 Member

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    until now, none for gold and 1 each for bronze and silver
     
  3. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    What if teams could carry bounties? Say, if your team hasn’t been challenged for the first time, you start with a bounty of 1.1/1.2x experience and point gain, and it clears when someone beats you? The more people you defeat in a row, the stronger the bounty gets, and once you lose the bounty, taking out an enemy team with your defence team will restore the base bounty to be increased on more wins.
     
  4. Gamma Ray

    Gamma Ray Active Member

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    I agree with what was said above. If you don't make an enticing enough team, then no one wants to face you. There should be some modifier for people who get skipped over repeatedly as it's a nod to that team's strength in comparison to the selected teams.

    My biggest concern is that it is currently better for most people to deck out a "beatable" team and hope enough people select it when the stat modifiers kick in.
     
    TRIX likes this.
  5. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean, that for each game i win in my prize fight streaks increases my bounty?
    Or only if i use my Defense Team Setup?

    The former could certainly entice people to at least fight you once in a while, but if you have an annoying team you would probably still get ignored more often than not once your bounty is claimed and needs to be built up again.
    I like the idea, but it feels like there would be no *constant* enticement for players to fight these annoying teams.

    Giving players the choice to always face all three options they get for greater rewards, would give people at least the chance to be picked everytime if someone wantsa those coins or that theonite.
     
  6. Liam

    Liam Not An Actual Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    I think that this is a great idea, it's one that we've been discussing too!

    There are a lot of ways to go about it, but something along the lines of providing extra rewards for being the player to finally take on a very challenging team that others ignore would be very cool.
     
  7. Liam

    Liam Not An Actual Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    Just wanted to note this likely isn't your fault.
    There are some issues with our current Prize Fight opponent selection logic, your team likely isn't being displayed as an option for other players.

    For context, I have a pretty purple name with a fancy logo, and I haven't been fought in 2 days.
    We'll be fixing this ASAP!

    After the fix is applied, then you can start forming your thoughts on setting a bad defense team on purpose to get fought vs a hard one and not being fought.
     
    #7 Liam, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  8. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the infos! <3
     
    Liam likes this.
  9. fanghoul

    fanghoul Active Member

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    I've had people attack me dozens of times now, and my team is Surgeon General (in front, so she squishes fast), Blood Bath, and Wulfsbane, since they're high points, but not the best on defense (in my experience (also, I don't have a ton of high level ones that are truly terrible on defense)).

    I think additional incentives to fighting the truly tough teams could be great!

    But it's also worth remembering that the amount of points you get is slightly trivial either way. Like, I just collected around 500 points in the Gold prize fight for two loses. If I'd won, that be what, 5,000 points? In total, with a couple dozen fights, mostly lost, I've gotten maybe... 30,000 points? But if I went and won one more fight right now I'd probably make another 300,000. So the benefit of winning a single offensive fight seems likely to outweigh all the possible benefits to fighting defensive.

    Which is a long way to say that you can set up what you like, and it seems to just be mostly be just for the fun of it, not the profit.

    Good to hear you guys are still working on this. I've liked the changes, but there does still seem to be moments where the dreaded three dominate the set of people you fight again.

    IMG_1822.PNG
     
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  10. Gamma Ray

    Gamma Ray Active Member

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    What's even more annoying is that they are not even that challenging compared to other teams. If you have a bleed effect they are just the same difficulty as before.

    I don't like losing to timeouts, but at the very least I would like to fight more than just the same team because it's the easiest one to win against.

    As a player, it would be nice for us to work on being honest with the "Defensive" tier list so maybe we could have modifiers being properly rewarded. (I.E. Resonant Evil and Armed Forces are considered two strong defensive characters by the community so that alone should be a bonus for taking them on).

    If you make an easy, medium, hard option select then it might make for better score allocation (x1 for easy, x1.5 for medium, x2 for hard).
     
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  11. fanghoul

    fanghoul Active Member

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    Well, I wouldn't say the buffs don't matter, but bleed is definitely very valuable in this context. Huh, I guess that means Blood Bath is actually the perfect defense team member, because not only is she immune to bleed, she turns it into regen.

    Maybe I should take her off my defense team if I want to attract more people
     
    Gamma Ray likes this.
  12. Gamma Ray

    Gamma Ray Active Member

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    She's fine if you have Beowulf or Cerebella who can beat her with their normal attack damage, but yeah once she is stronger than your fighters, it's one of the characters you skip by default. Similar to Dreadlocks Filia, they are fine when even leveled but once they are above your level it becomes a headache to fight against.

    That's why I am hoping there is an incentive to fight your teams rather than pass them up, or at least acknowledge the team you chose is very challenging due to past information and therefore gets some kind of bonus per fight.
     
    fanghoul likes this.
  13. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    I’m glad you all seemed to like my bounty idea, so let me clear it up since it was asked of me.

    -At the start of every new prizefight, your defense team starts with a “Bounty” of a score and experience modifier for the first person who defeats the team. For example, 1.25x.
    -If the challenger were to lose the fight, the Bounty would increase to, say, a 1.5x multiplier.
    -If the challenger defeats your team, your bounty is lost, and will reset in X hours, say 6, to the base of 1.25x, or when your defense team next wins a fight.

    -If your defense team wins, the points you receive are also multiplied by your Bounty.
    -If you are fighting the defense team with a 1.5x bounty per say, that multiplier will multiply the experience and score you would normally receive, by the bounty modifier.

    -Bonus points for HVS; a top 100 reward tier for the top 100 highest bounties, who get their own rewards similarly to top 10 rewards for character prizefights.

    I really think this idea might be a fantastic incentive for players to fight harder and harder teams. It might be wise to increase bounty by a tier for every X hours it goes unchallenged as well to make it more desirable. I would love to see this system manifest in the game, and I think it would turn what seems like some as a downgrade in experience, to a worthwhile arena-like match with unrivaled gains for taking on extreme challenges. Thank you guys for listening!
     
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  14. Zuzuska

    Zuzuska Active Member

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    I would like to bump this thread back to reactivity...

    After 3 days of placing my evolved Diamond PD on my Defense Team; I've received 2 Defense Alerts. Only TWO people decided to challenge my team over 72+ hours. Despite the past buff to successful defenses, there's still no legitimate reason to make your team difficult to beat. Having a high streak and taking no risks is understandably far more beneficial than challenging yourself and facing harder opponents. I still believe that this bounty idea is an amazing fix to the defensive bind we've set for ourselves.

    I understand that my team may be not showing up for others, but I've heard that some players can get 10 defense alerts in an hour. In comparison to my 2 in 72 hours, that's an insane difference.
     
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  15. Liam

    Liam Not An Actual Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    I would like to let you know that this is still 100% on our radar & frequently discussed internally!

    Taking the path of least resistance is the best way to avoid losing your streak, but we would like to encourage tactical risk vs reward where we can through other means. What that entails ... only time will tell.
     
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  16. Zuzuska

    Zuzuska Active Member

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    Alright, very glad to know this hasn't been placed to rot on the backburner :)
    As always, Tyvm Liam!
     
    Brian Ford likes this.
  17. Brian Ford

    Brian Ford Member

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    Some dudes suck at the start of the game though and their the guys who need it that's where the problem falls in. Some teams have auto set too so probably not even online least not until a certain ;-) one is up *silent on names*

    Yeah mys dead too until that girl's up lol how I know lol good idea however may need tweaked all am saying?!
     

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