1. [2018/06/22]
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Why does this game hate Valentine so much?

Discussion in 'Valentine' started by moisterrific, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. moisterrific

    moisterrific Well-Known Member

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    Valentine is objectively the worst character in the game right now. Her character ability sucks, her special moves sucks, her damage output sucks, most of her variants sucks, and she doesn’t even have any good combos other than the 2x Countervenom combo. But other than that she’s useless in pretty much every scenario and you’re better off picking anyone else.

    Her character ability “target vitals” is useless and underwhelming compared to every other character:
    • Big Band has the best character ability, being unstoppable during his dash. And that helps him easily push the enemy to their corner where he can take full advantage of his OP combo potential and all those wall bounces and stuns.
    • Cerebella’s character ability doesn’t even come close to Band’s, but hey at least her CA sort of gives her grab immunity and opens room for combo since enemies get staggered afterwards.
    • Eliza and Beowulf have character abilities that can grant them a huge burst in versatility when activated. Eliza can extend her combos slightly with Sekhmet mode’s unblockable charge, and most of Beowulf’s attacks do more hits and damage during hype mode and his throws become unbreakable
    • Filia, Painwheel, Peacock. Although their CAs are mediocre at best, they can be very useful in certain situations where you can do a clutch evade
    • Parasoul’s tears is kinda weird but pretty weak too. Still more powerful than Valentine’s
    • Double is too new and I haven’t played her much so idk
    • Valentine inflicts damage that “can’t be recovered” while tagged out. But you have to remember that anything that involves tagging is terrible and will never be good or fun.
    Valentine’s “target vitals” should be something more useful and fun. Instead of some trash CA like irrecoverable scratch damage, her ability should be something like all her attacks ignore the enemy’s armor and defence. That would actually make her stand out instead of being a crap version of Big Band with less DPS and less HP.

    Valentine’s special moves are the worst, her vials all require setting up which makes you sacrifice damage and meter gain while being vulnerable. And dead cross combos into nothing. Meanwhile Band’s everything combos into everything, and all his special moves give ridiculous amounts of meter on hit.

    Valentine is essentially a weaker Big Band, in fact, most characters are. But unlike Valentine, others can differentiate themselves with unique and interesting character abilities and stat paradigms that have potential. Valentine just does less damage and has less durability.

    Buff Valentine plz
    Buff her character ability
    Buff all her variants
    and bring back Oh Mai
     
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  2. Gibraltor

    Gibraltor Active Member

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    I think her success lies in being one of the few characters who buffs everyone else. But it'd be nice if she did more than that.
     
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  3. Peacockis2cool4u

    Peacockis2cool4u Active Member

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    I’m not sure why you keep comparing Valentine to Big Band, but I feel the same way about her needing to have so much potential in this game. I think her character ability should change as well. I like the idea of her attacks blocking armor too. I don’t think her variants or blockbusters are a problem through. I like the fact that she’s the only character that has a lot of blockbusters to choose from, I just wish they did a little more damage. It would be nice if she was buffed. I’d want players to think that they don’t want to play against certain teams because of a Valentine fighter, instead of a typical Cerebella or Big Band. Character variations have nothing to do with how the characters overall preforms. They’re just there to provide different abilities like the other characters.
    Over all, I do agree with you. Valentine really needs to be buffed.
     
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  4. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    Because Valentine and Big Band are the two tank characters.

    Character variations have stat paradigms that limit how much attack or HP they are able to have, so yes, it does matter. Each character has a differing max and min HP and ATK value for any variant to fall into, and each variant is locked into the same stat max.
     
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  5. Graveyard Heart

    Graveyard Heart New Member

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    When i first played this game, i was so intrested at valentine. She was a very good character with weird but good designs. So when i got my first valentine, i wasbreally hyped. I looked at her CA and SA and it was good. But after playing for a while, i realized that among the team that i pick, valentine always does first. So it's sort of unfair that she isnt buffed very well. I really hope that in skullgirls 2.0 they fix her
     
  6. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    She was never a good character, her CA is the worst in the game, and 7/9 of her SA's are bad. Hence why she needs a sizable buff.
     
  7. Leni

    Leni New Member

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    All currently sucking characters in different ways should be buffed at least to be a half as good as bigband and cerebella are IMO. Despite all characters design paradigms I think it will be great to see anyone except epic sax/ harlequin / wülfsbane / AF / untouchable / diva in the pf tops, since there are very much character variations . It's kinda difficult to bring into real life because of fight score for example, or a giant amount of work , but there's so much character cards, including really good silver and bronze ones, and all we see in the arena is like three same characters every time. Kinda crappy thing I think
     
  8. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    That's just because prizefights give you teams based on FS, so naturally the cards with the highest FS will make the strongest teams. Hence why you'll only see bella beo and rarely band/eliza at the top of a prizefight. AFAIK, there was an update that made the snapshot range for teams 25% of your current snapshot, but changing it so that people enter in lower teams doesn't help when those people just enter the same teams once and then farm with a single carry for milestones.
     
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  9. Leni

    Leni New Member

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    Yeah, the whole fs thing makes pf quite ugly and boring. but high fs is not the only reason why I see only the same characters as a carries you mentioned, and as a whole teams. They are ******* disbalanced. While harlequin is like an universal soldier, some last hope or gi jazz, princess pride, dread locks, velvet and etc are like some crappy raid bosses or something, I've never seen them in pf as a serious fighters , like they were made to fill some story mod missions. And bronze and silver fighters - we can of course evolve them to gold but anyway they will be way worse than true golds. So we'll have a huge amount of work to evolve them and get like a cards to start a streak in pf and no more. the game is still very cool and is a nice way of killing time and I hope sometimes there will be like some balance fetus
     
  10. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    Harlequin is only "Solidly good" at this point in time. Much of those fighters are easy to wipe with carries of your won, don't even have to be great. This isn't really a problem, the fighters aren't overpowered, especially with enemy AI being lackluster at best. If you're having trouble with those characters listed above I suggest farming for a higher FS.
     
  11. Leni

    Leni New Member

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    I'm playing mostly on 30k fs and not having much trouble, it's just terribly boring :D
     
  12. TRIX

    TRIX Member

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    Her CA does feel bad, but I didn't know why until I thought about it: all other character CAs are based around the character having a new and fun way to do damage, Valentine's isn't about doing more super cool combos it's just about buffing the standard combo passively--so that it doesn't feel rewarding.

    The easy fix is to add a UI element or new debuff category for the scratch regen null, so that the player can actively see it and know that their damage really is having an impact.

    A fix a lot more people would like though is to add it as a debuff, make it so it's triggerable, and give her higher damage to make up for the slight nerf. More implementation but more reward.

    Another option is to do away with scratch regen null entirely, to keep her damage, and to give her a more interactive and playstyle-changing CA that's more like Eliza and Beowulf's in that it comes as a separate button. Perhaps a syringe meter and the longer she's in a fight or the more damage she does the more debuffs(random/not/or maybe just bleed and disable) the oponent gets per tick on the meter. Or with the previous option use the meter ticks as a way of earning a scratch debuff. The most work but the most interactive and hands-on.

    I kinda like the third idea though because I think it would take her to a good tier, not just decent. Especially if she gets more moves such as her Juujis, giving her more combo-ability to gain the meter.
    Also there's a LOT of puns you could come up with for it--but what do you guys think?
     
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  13. Peacockis2cool4u

    Peacockis2cool4u Active Member

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    I love the button idea! My only issue with that is that wouldn’t they have to add a new animation for her attacks? Oh wait! I think she should have one similar to Beowulf’s (of course still having a “medical” move set while not going out of character). I feel like her attacks for that would be certain moves that are available in the console version, but not on mobile. Like that one move where she repeatedly stabs her opponents with scalpels. Then again, these are just ideas, nothing to be taking too seriously. It still sounds super cool though. Great ideas!
     
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  14. TRIX

    TRIX Member

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    I mean they wouldn't have to add more animations if all it gave was a debuff and didn't affect the player character's movements. Only a meter that builds on the side. (It still feels like asking for a lot though.)
    I love console Valentine but for the life of me I can't remember that move :< Just her Juuji moves.
    That's actually a good idea as well though! Since there are at least 3 or 4 moves unused in the mobile game a button mode would allow you to use those instead. Falling somewhere between Eliza and Beowulf's CAs.
     
  15. ImaiKari

    ImaiKari Beowulf's Smallest Fan
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    Some ideas the devs have tossed around when talking about changing her CA included a "tech roll" which definitely caught my eye. I'd love to see a roll that you can dodge damage and turn it into a combo starter- or dodge out of damage by tech rolling. Maybe put it on a cooldown, and have the circle around the button fill slowly after a couple seconds. I'm excited to see their solution in the end! Great discussion, too!
     
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  16. TRIX

    TRIX Member

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    Okay that's awesome.
    A lot like Fillia's but a more surefire way to get a combo, maybe.
    Honestly thank you, it's really great to know that the devs are hearing this and trying to help out the situation! :D
     
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  17. Checkmate

    Checkmate Member

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    Let's swap some moves. Like the air combo? If it were possible to enter a patellar pound and exit by preforming her in air Bone Saw attack, it'd be much more interesting to control the opponent. I just want her charge attack to become a special move, making much easier to get those out of reach characters.
     
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