1. [2018/06/22]
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A Valentine Tier List

Discussion in 'Valentine' started by theLoneskull, Jan 17, 2019.

?

Which intimidates you more?

  1. Surgeon General

    11 vote(s)
    29.7%
  2. Assassin's Greed

    26 vote(s)
    70.3%
  1. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    Introducing Valentine:
    Valentine's role can fluctuate between a healer and a disabler. She has a respectable health pool, but doesn't do all that much damage, instead relying on several combat effects to keep her teammates and herself healthy while also inflicting numerous harmful ones on the opponent. Her character ability can act as a way to keep yourself healthy if you mess up and get hit. She can achieve her maximum potential when a player is able to utilize all the tricks she has up her short sleeve (literally). Her SAs utilize regen effects to keep herself and her teammates alive while also using an arsenal of negative effects to debilitate her enemies and control the pace of the battle.

    Character Ability: Siphon
    - More of the damage Valentine receives is inflicted as non-permanent scratch damage. 75% of the damage Valentine deals is regained as health, but only up to her current scratch damage threshold.


    1. Surgeon General
    Rarity: Gold
    Element: Wind
    Lvl 60 ATK: 10,157
    Lvl 60 HP: 54.9k
    Lvl 60 FS: 19.7k
    SA: Stimpak
    - While Valentine is alive, she gains a permanent enrage every 30 seconds
    - While Valentine is alive, teammates gain immunity and heavy regen for 15 seconds every 30 seconds


    Surgeon General is still the strongest Valentine and one of the strongest winds in the game. Her heal triggers every 30 seconds while she is alive, making her heal more reliable than every other Valentine. On offense, her only real drawback is that she does not gain her damage boost for 30 seconds. In fights where she needs to deal damage fast, she somewhat falls off. But otherwise, she's a beast. Like Oh Mai, her key strength is snowballing to become a lethal threat. Equipping her with ICU also keeps her safe from any debuffs the modifiers or the opponent inflict and keep her healthy. On offense, her SA1 is more important to her since it lets her only decent damage become something to be feared. Or you could have her to protect your damage dealer from debuffs or revive them if they fall. And if both fail, then Surgeon can take charge. She'll have gained at least 2 stacks of enrage if everything's going right. And in long fights where you're down to a minute, she ends up getting 20k attack, making it nigh impossible to stop her without armor. She's overall incredibly strong and incredibly valuable and versatile as a fighter. She is above Assassin because of her higher base damage, better support capabilities, and better offensive capabilities. Attack %, defense, and meter gain are the ideal stats to go for. Hp % is also good for defense.

    2. Silent Kill
    Rarity: Gold
    Element: Water
    Lvl 60 ATK: 8,852
    Lvl 60 HP: 61k
    Lvl 60 FS: 19.4k
    SA: Foggy Memory
    - 25% chance on hit to remove all debuffs from self
    - 25% chance on hit to remove all buffs from opponent

    Prior to Surgeon's introduction (and in turn, Pyro and Assassin's), Silent Kill was the strongest Valentine. She's essentially a weaker Doublicious (SA-wise). I say weaker because, although removing them is not bad by any means, transferring buffs such as regen effects, enrage and haste to yourself while also transferring debuffs such as curse, bleed, and disables (excluding hex) to your opponent is a lot stronger than just outright removing them. It does help if you're in a pinch like when against a Resonant Evil or Untouchable and need to get rid of it ASAP. Silent Kill surpasses Doublicious in terms of survivibility, so there's that. Overall, she's still good against fighters that rely on gaining buffs or inflicting nasty debuffs, particularly if they're constant. Her big weak spot is the lack of damage, which will eventually cause her to struggle. On defense, she performs well when paired with the ICU modifier considering her high health pool. She doesn't have particular weakness (besides maybe curse on defense). Attack %, hp %, and defense are the ideal stats. If possibly, try to squeeze some meter gain in.

    3. Oh Mai
    Rarity: Silver
    Element: Fire
    Lvl 60 ATK: 8,717
    Lvl 60 HP : 47k
    Lvl 60 FS: 16.9k
    SA: Deadly Fury
    - Gain 2 stacks of enrage for 20 seconds and 5 stacks of precision after defeating an opponent
    - When any teammates is defeated, all remaining teammates gain 2 stacks of enrage for 15 seconds

    With her buff, Oh Mai has become considerably stronger. She is the most attack oriented Valentine in the game and if you do manage to kill someone, enjoy enrages that go on forever. However, the precision stacks are where you need to be smart. The dash attack will basically get rid of them also instantly, rendering them worthless. What you want to do is first hope Valentine's L1 to connect, then go for the L2 and cancel into the triple CV. Landing all 3 Countervenoms will absolutely DESTROY anyone that's not a tank. And it will still do a lot of damage to tanks. Oh Mai is somewhat like Buzzkill, in that she becomes very dangerous when the enrages are allowed to snowball. For anyone that wants just that extra bit of punch, bring someone who has low hp (like a low lvl silver or something) and have them be taken out straight away. She'll get 2 stacks of enrage which can and probably will snowball, though at the cost of a teammates which could have been used as fodder for a BB3. Overall, she's not bad, but would be better if she wasn't so difficult to obtain because I think the only way to obtain her is through those daily relics. And its only a 1% chance even then. But regardless, ideal stats: attack % and meter gain.

    4. Pyro-Technique
    Rarity: Gold
    Element: Fire
    Lvl 60 ATK: 8,852
    Lvl 60 HP: 61k
    Lvl 60 FS: 19.4k
    SA: Soul Burn
    - Inflict 2 stacks of wither for 10 seconds when hitting an opponent with a charge attack
    - Gain enrage for 10 seconds when hitting an opponent with a fully depleted blockbuster

    When I first heard the name of Pyro's SA, I expected bleed effects because the fire element and bleed somewhat seem to correspond. Instead, we got wither. I won't complain because alongside curse and bleed effects, wither is among the top 3 strongest negative combat effects in the game as it stands. With this Valentine, you will never have to fear a BB3 and will rarely ever face BBs. She performs better on offense than defense because the charge attack can be avoided if you dash back far enough when she's on defense, though the A.I will never try when you use her on offense (unless its Filia). However, the enrage is massively more situational, since there aren't that many moments where the opponent's meter will be completely empty. Immunity counters her. Armor also hurts her because she can't get through it and she has somewhat low attack. The ideal stats would be attack % and meter gain to maximize her damage while also not relying on the enrage. Hp % and defense % are good for if you mess up, but aren't urgently needed considering her respectable health pool anyway.

    5. Assassin's Greed
    Rarity: Diamond
    Element: Light
    Lvl 60 ATK: 8,794
    Lvl 60 HP: 78.2k
    Lvl 60 FS: 22.3k
    SA: Bled Dry
    - When the opponent uses a blockbuster against Valentine, they lose 25% of their remaining health and suffer from heavy bleed for 5 seconds
    - Gain 5% health per second while nearby an opponent suffering bleed

    Recently, Assassin's Greed was voted as the most terrifying defender out of the natural diamonds. I don't blame anyone who voted for her. She's in the top 5 for highest hp in the game, renders blockbusters less valuable thanks to her SA1, and is able to keep herself healthy for a short while. Also she's possibly bugged atm and can survive literally anything while benefitting from the regen, making her effectively immortal. No one is safe from the 25% health removal from her SA1. On offense, she's essentially a weaker Bio-Exorcist, with both of their SAs acting in somewhat similar ways (i.e. recovering health while near an opponent). Even still, without Laryngectomy, she has no reliable source of bleed. She relies too much on her SA1 to do meaningful damage and baiting blockbusters is a tricky thing to do. Risky as well. Ideal stats to go for would be attack% and defense. Hp % and meter gain are nice additions, though hp % isn't really necessary considering her insane healthpool anyway.

    6. Graveyard Shift
    Rarity: Silver
    Element: Dark
    Lvl 60 ATK: 6,471
    Lvl 60 HP: 57.5k
    Lvl 60 FS: 16.4k
    SA: Forensics
    - Valentine and all teammates gain heavy regen for 15 seconds when any fighter is defeated
    - 15% chance on hit to inflict curse and heal block for 10 seconds while benefitting from regen

    Her rework has made her more useful for offense. Curse is great and heal block, though more situational, can come in clutch. Her regen can be obtained by just bringing a weak silver to die. Her attack stat is still the second worst in the game, tied with Resonant Evil and Necrobreaker (assuming all 3 are evolved to diamond), with only Scared Stiff having worse attack, which is still holding her back from having much use on offense. She struggles to even kill BUZZKILL, a fighter with notoriously terrible hp. And just about anyone has more health than Buzzkill. Even on defense she's not too great because her hp's not THAT good. Ideal stats (if you actually want to use her): attack %, defense, and meter gain. Just do yourself a favor and don't spend anything on her. She may be worth taking to gold now, but still not worth taking to diamond.


    7. Last Hope
    Rarity: Gold
    Element: Light
    Lvl 60 ATK: 7,527
    Lvl 60 HP: 67k
    Lvl 60 FS: 19.1k
    SA: Urgent Care
    - Once per match while Valentine is alive, teammates gain heavy regen for 10 seconds when dropping below 25% health

    - Once per match when defeated, resurrect with 50% health

    At one point, Last Hope could've been considered the 2nd strongest Valentine variant. Though that was back when each character only had 2 gold variants. Ever since then, Last Hope hasn't been doing too well for herself. On offense, she's awful because her attack is abysmal and she has no real way of increasing her attack. Defense is where she shines, though there are better fighters than her for defense. Heavy regen is one of the strongest positive effects in the game currently. The one Last Hope provides would be good...if it didn't happen only once a match. Although at the same time, I suppose Last Hope has a similar purpose to Dead of Winter in that she's supposed to stall for as much time as possible and the self revive with a good amount of health supports that. Even still, hex can directly counter Last Hope while curse or someone who can nullify buffs in some way can render her heal worthless. Although final stand does make her a pain because she won't revive, which stalls for even more time than she already does. This is offense though, so all of these attributes are worthless. Do yourself a favor and just don't use her. Ideal stats, meter gain %, defense and hp %. Atk % isn't the best investment because her attack is absolutely horrendous.


    8. Icy Hot
    Rarity: Bronze
    Element: Water

    Lvl 60 ATK: 8,180
    Lvl 60 HP: 44.3k
    Lvl 60 FS: 15.9k
    SA: First Responder
    - All teammates tag in with regen for 15 seconds
    - On tag in, all teammates gain 15% meter for all blockbusters

    Another one that people think is actually good. She used to be decent compared to the other Valentines. But after most got buffs/reworks, she didn't get changed. She's still overall pretty bad. Not too great of attack (still better than Graveyard Shift, Scrub, and even Last Hope) combined with meh hp and a not too great SA makes her pretty bad. In lower levels of the game, I suppose she'd be great, but this list looks more towards late game, not early game. Don't invest into her. Unless you want a cheap Valentine to get the Trauma Center MA (like I did). Then go ahead I guess. Ideal stats: atk %, def, hp % and meter gain.


    9. Scrub
    Rarity: Bronze
    Element: Wind
    Lvl 60 ATK: 6,490
    Lvl 60 HP: 44.8k
    Lvl 60 FS: 14.2k
    SA: Outpatient
    - Instantly recover 25% health when tagging out
    - Teammates in reserve regenerate scratch damage and gain blockbuster meter 100% faster


    There isn't much to say about Scrub. She's better after the rework, but is still god awful for offense because her SA provides no offensive utility and her attack is pathetic. She's actually not half bad for defense, but this is offense, so yeah. Ideal stats (idk why I bother): atk %, hp %, def and meter gain.
     
    #1 theLoneskull, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  2. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    I tried something different. I used the color of Valentine's hat for the name and the color of the cross on said hat for the stats and how I feel about the variant (i.e. dark green for Surgeon's name and dark red for everything else). What do you think about it?

    I also included stats to boost through moves and whatnot. Hope it helps :)

    (FInal note: I meant to release this yesterday but didn't. Whoops)
     
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  3. Reshiram18

    Reshiram18 Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to mention that Assassin's Greed can also be soft countered by literally any Val that is running ICU(any heavy bleed inflicted by the SA1 will get immediately converted to heavy regeneration by ICU), although everything you mentioned still can't be trigger happy with blockbusters thanks to the 25% health loss inflicted by her SA1.
     
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  4. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    I think one thing I might mention about Last Hope that makes her slightly stronger is that if she can get Last Stand she's extra annoying, because it prevents her from dropping into her revive, and you can end up having to wait out Last Stand's timer twice then. It's nothing too exceptional, but when the fight timer's running out it's a pain. This trait is probably more valuable for Big Top Cerebella though.
     
  5. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    Oh yea. I forgot about. Whoops again
     
  6. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    Once again, I forgot about that. I've faced Last Hope with a final stand and my god, it was awful. Too bad the second SA is just a ripoff of Big Top's SA
     
  7. Zachary Baumstark

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    First off thanks for all of your great tier lists though maybe change the text color. For example. It's really hard to read silent kills text :(
     
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  8. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    No problem friend
    I'll change the text color to make it easier to read. This was a test sort of thing to see how people felt about the idea behind the text colors
     
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  9. cappatacus

    cappatacus Active Member

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    I once faced a team of three Valentines in a rift node. Graveyard Shift, Icy Hot, and I believe SG but possibly Scrub, I'm not sure. The first two kept me so preoccupied that I didn't notice. They spammed tag outs and were constantly getting regen, and some had ICU which kept me from countering with bleed. Another one was equipped with Trauma Center, so even if I had managed to get their health down, they would've tagged out before I could finish them off. Scrub may not be OP, but honestly, if I was facing her in that node and she gained constant regen as well as 25% health...yikes.

    You mentioned that she's placed lower because of her SA only really healing herself, but honestly, I don't see that as an issue. Sure, it'd be amazing if all teammates gained the 25%hp, but that almost seems unbalanced, and a good defender doesn't need to keep the rest of their teammates alive - just themselves. If Valentine is kept alive, she can easily revive a teammate and keep them going with TC. Not to mention, 25% HP on any high streak modifier is substantial.

    Also, I'm skeptical of Pyro Technique's placement. Is her damage really that good? I don't have her (yet) and I wonder if she holds up in high streaks.
     
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  10. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    I've faced plenty of Graveyard, Icy Hots, and Scrubs. From experience, they never hold up well. Though that was in PFs and not Rift Battles. I'm not sure about those because I've only ever faced an Icy Hot once in a Rift Battle. I suppose there's potential there because of the modifiers and what not. But these lists don't really look at Rift Battles, but rather performance in pfs. Which these 3 are lacking in.

    The same could be said for most Valentine variants. Their damage isn't that good and they don't hold up well in high streaks. Except for Assassin, Surgeon, and Oh Mai if she's allowed to snowball. Pyro might hold up a little better, but there isn't a huge difference.
     
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  11. infine

    infine Active Member

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    As an accidental owner of AG I've got some remarks.

    First, making use of SA1 on offense is hard. Because your typical combo ends with enemy meter drained to keep their BB3 at bay. So enemy can't do BBs because they don't have meter. Even if you give them charged BBs, safely baiting BBs is hard (cough diamonds are forever cough).

    Second, how do I ded cross? Can't seem to combo into it. It hits Big Band after forbidden procedure but that's it.
     
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  12. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    You can hit anyone with Dead Cross after using a Countervenom if you time it right, though Checkmate Incision might be a better option if it's ready.

    Random observation as another Assassin's Greed owner, her SA1 does appear to be able to kill people if they're at 1hp. Not super useful, but better than if it didn't.
     
  13. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    Personally i heavily disagree with Assassin's being number 1.
    Sure she is strong as a defender, but if you try to use her offensively past like streak 25-30 she's starts falling off hard.
    Her Base Attack is lower than that of Diamond Surgeon, who also gets permanent enrages every 30 seconds.

    It is also much too risky to try and bait enemy BBs to take advantage of her SA as a player, aside from applying bleeds yourself. And bleeds you will apply, because her damage is absymal for a natural diamond with no offensive abilities to fall back on. Without bleed her damage is just not enough to properly use her if the enemy team is properly equipped.

    Even with her high HP-stat and good SA for defending, i'd say SG is still better due to the support she gives her other teammates, while getting stronger in the back herself.

    ---

    Also, so far my Assassins Greed hasn't been much of a help on my defense teams or rift nodes, so not sure how hard she really is to fight if you have some type of counter (Bloodbath, ICU Vals, etc)
     
  14. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    She really falls off? Dang. I overestimated her.
    I've tried baiting blockbusters with my SK before so I can agree with it being hard. Don't ask why I did. I just did
    Well I guess Surgeon's still at the top then. Gotta fix that
     
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  15. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    at least in my experience. Mine is level 45 right now and just now breaks 6k Atk (which is kind of bad for a diamond, doubly so for anatural).
    Past higher streaks i can at best rely on the heavy bleed from Laryngectomy and keeping their BB3 at bay with CV.
    For example fought a team at streak 29 earlier with bum Greed as my "carry", i was down at like 40 seconds left when i finally beat the last fighter.

    Compare that to my SG which is maybe 7 or 8 levels above AG, and she tears through those same enemies so much quicker. And even against tougher enemies you keep getting more and more enrages.

    Max AG Atk is ~ 8k
    Max SG Atk is ~ 10k

    not such a big difference right? but if you're fighting something real tough and get down to 1 minute left you suddenly have 20k Atk instead while AG still relies mostly on her bleed to deal damage (which lets enemies tag out and recover, wasting even more time)

    --

    So yeah, overall, in terms of offense AG is really disappointing for a Nat Diamond. As for defense, mine hasn't stopeed many players yet and i have only fought them myself a handful of time, with no problems so far, so not sure how she is on that.
     
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  16. cappatacus

    cappatacus Active Member

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    Like fan said, you can time it after Countervenoms, although I feel like this doesn't work with every character. You can also time it after Forbidden Procedure, or certain characters (namely Big Band, I believe Beowulf and Eliza as well) can be hit with it after launching. Also, this move is great for interrupting Squigly or any charge attack.

    Although, if you're using that for the bleed, then her Burst is also a good option. Mine's at lvl 5, and it already guarantees 7 seconds of bleed on hit. Doesn't combo with much besides a jab->launcher, though.
     
  17. Irghen

    Irghen Member

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    I'd probably set the main text to white to improve readability.

    I find Val hard to gauge, on one hand, yeah SG is stupid strong, but on offense I've had way better luck with Oh Mai being actually able to finish off my opponents.

    I have no problem giving Oh Mai an offensive build. But I feel obligated to build SG as pure tankiness for defense, which really gives very little room to work offensively.

    Maybe someone could recommend some builds for different variants?
     
  18. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    Uh, for SG you could do triple CV, Forbidden, and DoA. Stats, I'd say try 40% atk, 35% def, 50% hp, and 30% meter gain.
    I could maybe give more builds depending on which Val you're interested in
     

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