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Evolving Fighters: I have an idea but I'm unsure if it's practical...

Jimbob

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Okay so, I have this thing with fighting games:
I'm a sucker for original skins

Something about alt. colours just bugs me and I've never really liked them. So I was thinking of getting one of every character's original colours to gold teir. I thought what's the problem? Bronze characters are cheap as chips to upgrade and my silver Bassline Big Band seems to be doing quite well in gold prize fights and beating most my pure golds in terms of FS, but lately bronze keys are becoming a pain to get a hold of and I've read that Bronze-to-Gold characters are worse than pure golds and not worth it, as on the flipside I've read the whole "if you like that character then you go ahead and do what you like" so I'm slightly indecisive.

I'd like some advice. Is it a practical idea or should it be scrapped for the long run?
 

Vex

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Keys are going to be your problem long term so leveling up "every" fighter is going to take a long time, but having some gold-plated bronzes is nice for the other chokepoint which is canopy coins. You can fill out 5 bronze trees for the same price as one gold tree.

I've got 3 evolved bronzes with filled out trees and they won't match their natural gold equivalents but are maybe 80% as good, and it would have taken forever to fill out those natural gold trees. They're plenty good enough to get a good streak started or round out a team. Probably if you're a good enough player you could even push them past teams of maxed out golds but I'm not :)
 
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SAs have a huge impact in battle. No Bronze Fillia will ever be as effective as a parasite weave if they are close in FS. Same thing for Primed Parasoul. Not only that but the natural golds will end up with a higher max FS. Some Bronze's are really good tho like Cold Stones Beo but he will still suffer from having a lower FS than WW or Wulfsbane even though he has a really high FS for a bronze.

But it does come down to personal preference. If you like a Bronze' skins and SA then upgrade away. Some bronze have very good SA, others are crap. Some golds have good SA and others are crap, you just gotta test the waters and see how they are.
 
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Jimbob

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Keys are going to be your problem long term so leveling up "every" fighter is going to take a long time, but having some gold-plated bronzes is nice for the other chokepoint which is canopy coins. You can fill out 5 bronze trees for the same price as one gold tree.

I've got 3 evolved bronzes with filled out trees and they won't match their natural gold equivalents but are maybe 80% as good, and it would have taken forever to fill out those natural gold trees. They're plenty good enough to get a good streak started or round out a team. Probably if you're a good enough player you could even push them past teams of maxed out golds but I'm not :)

Yeah, the affordability of the Bronze trees is the reason I'm leaning towards it, save the amount of keys I'll need. I've had a Silent Kill Valentine and Raw Nerv Painwheel for many months now and I've only just scratched the surface of their skilltree, and it's starting to make me feel as though I'll never max them.
(One day... one day)

I guess maxed out evolved bronzes could be useful to help build a PF streak because at the point where everyone's maxed lv. and can only play 2 fights because they don't rely on levelling up for energy refilling, it could help kickstart the streak for the pure golds to then move in pick up on... I dunno, just thinking.

Also you said approximately 80% as good as Gold fighters? If we take that literally, and say that a pure gold has 10K FS and I have 8K - with other teammates - that's not too bad in terms of fighting against AI. Perhaps a combined 30K team vs a 24K team would be problematic but if I mix and match with pure golds and evolved's then I can't foresee it being too much of an issue.

I'm just dreadin' those keys, man.
 

Jimbob

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SAs have a huge impact in battle. No Bronze Fillia will ever be as effective as a parasite weave if they are close in FS. Same thing for Primed Parasoul. Not only that but the natural golds will end up with a higher max FS. Some Bronze's are really good tho like Cold Stones Beo but he will still suffer from having a lower FS than WW or Wulfsbane even though he has a really high FS for a bronze.

But it does come down to personal preference. If you like a Bronze' skins and SA then upgrade away. Some bronze have very good SA, others are crap. Some golds have good SA and others are crap, you just gotta test the waters and see how they are.

Strangely, I haven't been paying attention to SAs as much as I'd like to admit... coming from a guy who plays the game to quite a serious degree. Sometimes I look at them and be like "oh that's a cool add-on to me beating people down" but SAs have never actually caught my attention that much or made me second guess my actions in raising fighters.

But now that you mention it, thanks. I'll definitely look over it. I just thought "playing as original skins in gold teir is awesome" but then considered this stuff which is why I came to the forums. I'll see if there are some that evolving really just aren't worth my time
 

Jimbob

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Certain fighters will drop off significantly once evolved to gold.

For example, Rusty might be fine as a silver and bronze fighter because there aren't many fighters that hit really hard. However, as a gold, she has 15k HP, the lowest in the game. At gold there are A LOT of heavy hitters and basically all of them can kill her with one combo without needing to even use a blockbuster or special move. Even at 50% defense you still won't last long.

Heavy Reign is another example of a fighter who suffers once evolved to gold. As a gold she has 3.2k atk. The minimum attack you want to have to be able to fight back against the plethora of 50% def armed forces, harlequins, and big bands is around 5k attack. If your attack is any lower, you're guaranteeing that you'll be eating a BB3 from every one of their fighters, as well as risking a time out. You need 56% atk bonus to be just barely usable. At that point, you'd be better off putting those moves onto a Primed because you only need to work half as hard as a gold Heavy Reign to get the same kill. She's great as a silver or bronze where the overall total stats are lower and her BBs hit just as hard as any other fighter, but as a Gold she's underwhelming.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of only playing stuff according to tier lists because that's a good way to ruin the fun of the game for yourself. All I'm saying is that you should be aware that for some evolved gold fighters, the stat differences will be glaring. If you're going to evolve something to gold, be aware that you're going to need heavy stat investment from your moves to achieve the same results that most True Gold fighters can get with little to no investment.

I'd recommend checking out Raidriar's spreadsheet so you can know ahead of time what the stats will look like for the fighters you're thinking of evolving.

(._. ) oh dear.
Maybe my original colours in gold teir fantasy is a bit silly.
Yeah that whole Rusty Painwheel analogy was a big red flag that I didn't even know existed, thanks man.

I'm not saying you've scared me off of my idea or anything because I don't want you to feel like you've sucked me into all that uber-competitive-tier-list-malarkey... but it's certainly made me cautious xD

I'll definitely do my homework and look at the spreadsheet before considering anything :D
 

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Just gonna add that I have something planned on the terms of evolving the original palettes to gold, but on a way bigger scale. Also, I'm pretty sure they'd do great in the Medici Shakedown, as my silver Rerun (maxed of course) can take on teams with Primed, Armed Forces, Epic Sax, and even Untouchable if I play my cards (that's a pun, isn't it?) right.
 
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Wulfden

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Just gonna add that I have something planned on the terms of evolving the original palettes to gold, but on a way bigger scale. Also, I'm pretty sure they'd do great in the Medici Shakedown, as my silver Rerun (maxed of course) can take on teams with Primed, Armed Forces, Epic Sax, and even Untouchable if I play my cards (that's a pun, isn't it?) right.
Definitely hear that! Even as a bronze, my Bad Hair Day can easily help tack on the damage and pressure with extra bleeds besides rushing peeps down with Gregor Samson.
 
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Jimbob

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If you can, clear all the milestones for your silver and bronze PFs. Clearing all milestones basically guarantees you a top 10% placement in bronze and silver prize fights. That's 2 free keys per PF. Per week that's 4 free keys. Every 2-2.5 weeks you can gather enough keys to max a new bronze/silver character's skill tree depending on if you care about that cooldown branch (I do). It's a slow grind but it adds up.

Here are some numbers from a post I'm currently writing up.

True Golds
Average Atk: 4.9k
Average HP: 28.5k

Evolved Golds
Average Atk: 4k
Average HP: 23.1k

On average, stats will be ~19% lower for evolved fighters. Pretty good guesstimate by Vex, assuming he was just throwing out a number and didn't actually do the math.

I'm personally a fan of evolving bronzes and silvers to golds for early game. They're cheap. You can make a bunch of them. And because they're easy to max out, once you make them into a gold they'll have all their nodes unlocked already and you don't need to worry about anything other than xp. They're also great for breaking into PFs for new players. When I first started getting into Gold PF, my best fighter was a gold Understudy. I had a Harlequin, but as you mentioned, each node is really expensive for newer players so it felt like I was spending all my resources on one node when I could have been upgrading multiple nodes on a silver/bronze.

Eventually though as you get more and more strong fighters, clearing all difficulties of dailies and all prize fight milestones becomes easy and the cost per gold fighter node won't seem as large as they used to, but for people still in the early/mid game phase I can understand the reasoning.

Omg thank you. And like you said, the evolveds aren't THAT underpowered and by what the other guys are saying they seem more than potent, brilliant for kickstarting the streaks and then helping me get the materials to upgrade my true golds for late game.
I'll look out for that post of yours when it's up, it looks helpful and interesting :D

Seems like a long road ahead for all those keys, but I don't think it'll be difficult by any means... just spamming fights and waiting for energy refill (._. )

Just gonna add that I have something planned on the terms of evolving the original palettes to gold, but on a way bigger scale. Also, I'm pretty sure they'd do great in the Medici Shakedown, as my silver Rerun (maxed of course) can take on teams with Primed, Armed Forces, Epic Sax, and even Untouchable if I play my cards (that's a pun, isn't it?) right.

Oooo, go you. ATM my Silver maxed Bassline (lv21) is now on par with my true golds' FS (They're like lv29-30) and he seems to be cleaning up lots of fights for me at the moment because he has more move points and slots as well as the maxed tree

Definitely hear that! Even as a bronze, my Bad Hair Day can easily help tack on the damage and pressure with extra bleeds besides rushing peeps down with Gregor Samson.

Yeah, even in fights against golds I have a lv30, not-quite-maxed Underdog with just over 1000FS that I use for hit-and-runs by piling on Wulf Shoots and the occasional combo and lashing out hyped BB3s, and I've found that helps quite a lot. Now he's with my other lv30 bronzes I haven't evolved yet as my bronze PF guys. But yeah, bronzes can help quite a lot

d(ouo )
 

Vex

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Ha! The 80% was just a guesstimate.

Rusty is actually one of my golds too. I wouldn't dare put her into a 5X match but I get pretty far by tagging out once a baddie hits the floor. Understudy is a beast (but no Armed Forces) at 49, and Beat Box still seems solid although he's got some leveling to do. On the other hand Heavy Reign at silver 40 is pretty mediocre, although that probably has something to do with bad luck in Parasoul moves.
 
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Omg thank you. And like you said, the evolveds aren't THAT underpowered and by what the other guys are saying they seem more than potent, brilliant for kickstarting the streaks and then helping me get the materials to upgrade my true golds for late game.
I'll look out for that post of yours when it's up, it looks helpful and interesting :D

Seems like a long road ahead for all those keys, but I don't think it'll be difficult by any means... just spamming fights and waiting for energy refill (._. )



Oooo, go you. ATM my Silver maxed Bassline (lv21) is now on par with my true golds' FS (They're like lv29-30) and he seems to be cleaning up lots of fights for me at the moment because he has more move points and slots as well as the maxed tree



Yeah, even in fights against golds I have a lv30, not-quite-maxed Underdog with just over 1000FS that I use for hit-and-runs by piling on Wulf Shoots and the occasional combo and lashing out hyped BB3s, and I've found that helps quite a lot. Now he's with my other lv30 bronzes I haven't evolved yet as my bronze PF guys. But yeah, bronzes can help quite a lot

d(ouo )
I know you said you don't pay much attention to SA but you really should. Beat Box' SA is a lot better than Basslines for damage, and Cold Stones is MUCH better than Underdogs overall. A Beat Box or Cold Stones with the same upgrades as your Bassline and Underdog would likely make your fights a lot easier.
 
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Jimbob

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I know you said you don't pay much attention to SA but you really should. Beat Box' SA is a lot better than Basslines for damage, and Cold Stones is MUCH better than Underdogs overall. A Beat Box or Cold Stones with the same upgrades as your Bassline and Underdog would likely make your fights a lot easier.

Yeah, even as a guy who doesn't pay that much attention to SA, Underdog's SA still stood out to me as quite suckish, or at least compared to Cold Stones. But the idea was about upgrading original skins to gold and whether it is practical to do so, so I guess I don't have a choice in SA if I wanted to go ahead with it...

But what you said is definitely worth keeping in mind. If I had the keys, the coins and the time I'd have an evolved Beat Box and Cold Stones too. But if I decide to scrap the idea then I'll probably scrap the whole evolving from bronze thing all together, because this idea was the only thing that made me really invest in bronze fighters outside my bronze PF team.

And, yeah. I'll consider SA when raising fighters and team building more often, now that I know they're way more important than some funky gag.

(Also it's sad that Underdog's SA sucks even though it's my favourite colour of my favourite fighter and it now puts me off. Crii)
 

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(Also it's sad that Underdog's SA sucks even though it's my favourite colour of my favourite fighter and it now puts me off. Crii)
God, same! I made a thread earlier about being able to maybe upgrade the bronze and silver colors because honestly I love the default colors and thought, hey, why not upgrade their abilities too but like now I can't even look at some of them the same way because I'm so used to just using the same tried and true colors when I would kill for using Underdog or Bad Hair Day instead of say Wulfsbane and Bad Ms. Frosty all the time!
 

Jimbob

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God, same! I made a thread earlier about being able to maybe upgrade the bronze and silver colors because honestly I love the default colors and thought, hey, why not upgrade their abilities too but like now I can't even look at some of them the same way because I'm so used to just using the same tried and true colors when I would kill for using Underdog or Bad Hair Day instead of say Wulfsbane and Bad Ms. Frosty all the time!

Uuuugh yes. I feel you, man.
I don't even know what's wrong with me and alt colours. Part of me kinda feels like I'm not really playing "as THE character". The only alt colours I actually like are That's All Folks and Bloodbath... but they just HAD to be the character-specific relic-exclusives, didn't they...

If anything I think they should be the other way round. I think the alts should be the bronzes and silvers and the originals should be regular golds... (or maybe at least another version of the bronze originals but with better abilities and still keep original bronze ones) but hey, that's just my opinion.
 

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Evolving a fighter is generally not worthwhile unless you really love that fighter's palette. Because evolved fighters will always have inferior ATK and/or HP stats compared to natural golds.

Plus the signature ability of bronzes and silvers are all worse than natural golds (with the exception of a few)
 
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Geo

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So an evolved maxed char will not be as good as an direct gold drop from the relics ? Even if you level up all chars each time that will go into the main char with the tree skilled ??

Sounds funny for me .. there has to be some kind of multiplier for leveling the seeds.

I played a lot of fighting games and a lot of mobile games on a higher level and what makes the games fun is that the effort will get rewarded with stronger characters / cards that you will not be able to obtain by money or luck..

Thats really upsetting, I started 1 week ago and really like the game.
Had already plans when and how to evolve each one from bronze.. i guess I will just farm the treepoints and put then into the golds / silvers tht I get.
 
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Before knowing the tier list I evolved:

Ivy League
Rage Appropriate
Graveyard Shift

Ivy League was happening regardless of tier listing since I love her skin and abilities. Inkling is another fighter I love the skin for, so I evolved her. Rage Appropriate was good enough to stay in silver, but she's ridiculously fragile in Gold PFs, while Graveyard Shift is more of a nuisance to deal with. I found some uses for her, and while niche they work to revenge KO after 1-2 fighters get sweeped on either end.