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Fights Grab Moves must have a Limit

P4CTR4N

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Hi Devs, hi SGM community.
I can't believe what i saw when a player used "3 Wulf Shot" against a hard boss node, i mean, it's so ridiculous, it's like when the players used to abuse of the corners and defeated opponents easily with grabs, you call that play??
Only using that moves, then hype mode and more unblockable grabs, stupid, in only 10 seconds all your investment is lose.

And I'm talking on offense, on defense is more annoying, the AI only spam you with special moves and you can't react to that grabs.

And the same happen with more than 1 Merry Gorilla and Mourtary Drop, and thanks god that i have not found valentines with a lot of Mourtary Drops, because if she is with regen can stun you for several seconds.

The solution for this is simple, a limit of 1 Grab Move.
Another solution is a catalyst that reset the special moves every time the player use an special moves, OR Disable Special for 5-15 seconds, but this won't be fair to the Prize Fights.
And i know there is a cata for specials, but is nothing effective, is useless.

It's all, thanks.
 

Rudølf

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If this is in rift, I understand it's frustrating to lose to a node just from grabs. ;w;

For now, there are ways to get through it though. AI spams command grabs at the start right? You could do a backdash and counter. You could try doing a launch too?
 

Irghen

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And I'm talking on offense, on defense is more annoying, the AI only spam you with special moves and you can't react to that grabs.
Sorry, I can't back you here. There are way, WAY. WAAAAAAY worst fighters to face on offense than a grappler. I can't even recall the last time I lost to a Beo in rifts or even a high level PF.

Overclocked, Assassins Greed, Blue Screen, and Dreadlocks are actual nightmares. And that's without mentioning the teeth grinding night terror that is Meow & Forever with a Scratch Post.

Try watching some videos from top players doing rifts if you're having trouble so you can adjust. In my opinion, the change you're proposing is just unwarranted.
 

Emeraldrain

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I don`t think so.
Grab Moves must have a UNLIMIT.

all character has weaknesses.
ex ) Big band`s weakness - cerebella
Parasoul`s weakness - painwheel
Valentine`s weakness - Disable Blockbusters
Filia`s weakness - Valentine
.... etc...

That is only one of those cases.
The Skullgirls have always maintained a balance even among such natural enemies.
use Signature Ability or Catalysts or Modifiers.
I don't think grab move is unfair.

If that's bad for the game, Skullgirls will release a NEW Robo Fortune that's resistant to wulf shoots the way they've always done.
 

P4CTR4N

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Sorry, I can't back you here. There are way, WAY. WAAAAAAY worst fighters to face on offense than a grappler. I can't even recall the last time I lost to a Beo in rifts or even a high level PF.

Overclocked, Assassins Greed, Blue Screen, and Dreadlocks are actual nightmares. And that's without mentioning the teeth grinding night terror that is Meow & Forever with a Scratch Post.

Try watching some videos from top players doing rifts if you're having trouble so you can adjust. In my opinion, the change you're proposing is just unwarranted.
That is not 100% safe, if Beowulf has The hurtle he throw it immediately when you go back in the second 300 , even can happen with Cerebella, couldn't dodge her grab in second 300 with Filia, is incredible
 

P4CTR4N

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I don`t think so.
Grab Moves must have a UNLIMIT.

all character has weaknesses.
ex ) Big band`s weakness - cerebella
Parasoul`s weakness - painwheel
Valentine`s weakness - Disable Blockbusters
Filia`s weakness - Valentine
.... etc...

That is only one of those cases.
The Skullgirls have always maintained a balance even among such natural enemies.
use Signature Ability or Catalysts or Modifiers.
I don't think grab move is unfair.

If that's bad for the game, Skullgirls will release a NEW Robo Fortune that's resistant to wulf shoots the way they've always done.
You are not understanding, one thing is unfair, another is a game well done when you can dodge, block, stop something that is a simple move. Another thing is abuse of a move that the AI can't stop.
 

Disasterrr19

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Another thing is abuse of a move that the AI can't stop.
I've tried today to spam Wulf Shoots on Valentine. After two of them connecting well, the third attempt met two consecutive Countervenoms that almost killed my poor Beo (his health is not that high after all, right?). So, as HVS told us, AI can learn from repeated patterns and has ways to counter them. Command Grabs can be a powerful tools but they alone can't guarantee you the victory.
 
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Robokit

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Hi P4CTR4N, as a player whose skills are mediocre at best, I have to confess I rely on Bella's grabs quite a lot, but not so much on Beo's grabs as I don't use him much anyways. I feel annoyed too when I see my Robo nodes in rift neutralized with Beo with multiple wulf shoots(basically ppl use Beo with unblockable grabs, Painwheels's unblockable charge attack or Bellas grabs , occasionally there's the Double users sporting a frequent tag-in strategy with Sketchy backup against Robo nodes).

IMO regardless of skill level, players are always on the lookout for cheesing strategies. For example, top rifters almost invariably use multiple copies of the same meta character in a rift battle, 2-4 SGs, SKs, Doubliciouses, Sketchies, and now also increasingly Kill Joys, Graveyard Shifts and Harlequins (it's actually getting a bit out of hand, that's why I been calling for attacker diversity). Parasoul's and Double's erstwhile grab spam is another example.

I respect and admire skilled players and enjoy watching their showcase videos, including yours, and I'm rooting for you to one day dethrone the current top 3 regulars :D. But I myself on the other hand take a more casual approach to the fighting aspect of SGM because I enjoy it as a game of collection and ACGN creativity much more than anything else. My skills therefore improve very slowly if at all, and I am guilty of going for easy wins whereever possible (though I won't go so far as deploying 4-5 frost armor nodes and using multiple copies of the same meta characters)

So at the end of the day,
although this is clearly too much to ask at this stage of SGM's development, I think an ideal solution would be to provide difficulty options to players across all major game modes so different interests are catered to.
  • Fight conditions will be lenient with low difficulty, e.g. allowing multiple command grabs, whereas with high difficulty there're limitations placed on grab moves as you proposed.
  • Accordingly, rewards will be juicier with high difficulty.
 

Emeraldrain

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You are not understanding, one thing is unfair, another is a game well done when you can dodge, block, stop something that is a simple move. Another thing is abuse of a move that the AI can't stop.
Maybe I didn't understand. But obviously, the same problem occurs even if you limit the grab move to one.
ex) Beowulf Harlequin Harlequin
use 1 grab move. still. Unlimited grab.

now, the weakness of the robofortune node to catch is an unstoppable weakness.
This is not to limit catching if you want to prevent it, but a new Robofortune should come out.

ex) Whenever Robofortune down, it gains thorns or defense.
 
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P4CTR4N

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Maybe I didn't understand. But obviously, the same problem occurs even if you limit the grab move to one.
ex) Beowulf Harlequin Harlequin
use 1 grab move. still. Unlimited grab.

now, the weakness of the robofortune node to catch is an unstoppable weakness.
This is not to limit catching if you want to prevent it, but a new Robofortune should come out.

ex) Whenever Robofortune down, it gains thorns or defense.
Noo, that is ok, the people have to use special cooldown, with one wulf shoot + harley won't charge fast enough to use it then of the AI get up, so if want to do that have to invest in more Special Cooldown.
 

P4CTR4N

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Hi P4CTR4N, as a player whose skills are mediocre at best, I have to confess I rely on Bella's grabs quite a lot, but not so much on Beo's grabs as I don't use him much anyways. I feel annoyed too when I see my Robo nodes in rift neutralized with Beo with multiple wulf shoots(basically ppl use Beo with unblockable grabs, Painwheels's unblockable charge attack or Bellas grabs , occasionally there's the Double users sporting a frequent tag-in strategy with Sketchy backup against Robo nodes).

IMO regardless of skill level, players are always on the lookout for cheesing strategies. For example, top rifters almost invariably use multiple copies of the same meta character in a rift battle, 2-4 SGs, SKs, Doubliciouses, Sketchies, and now also increasingly Kill Joys, Graveyard Shifts and Harlequins (it's actually getting a bit out of hand, that's why I been calling for attacker diversity). Parasoul's and Double's erstwhile grab spam is another example.

I respect and admire skilled players and enjoy watching their showcase videos, including yours, and I'm rooting for you to one day dethrone the current top 3 regulars :D. But I myself on the other hand take a more casual approach to the fighting aspect of SGM because I enjoy it as a game of collection and ACGN creativity much more than anything else. My skills therefore improve very slowly if at all, and I am guilty of going for easy wins whereever possible (though I won't go so far as deploying 4-5 frost armor nodes and using multiple copies of the same meta characters)

So at the end of the day,
although this is clearly too much to ask at this stage of SGM's development, I think an ideal solution would be to provide difficulty options to players across all major game modes so different interests are catered to.
  • Fight conditions will be lenient with low difficulty, e.g. allowing multiple command grabs, whereas with high difficulty there're limitations placed on grab moves as you proposed.
  • Accordingly, rewards will be juicier with high difficulty.
Tnx man, but i don't see any bad in limit the grab move to 1 to avoid the abusing of grab moves, they have to invest in special cooldown to do that.
 

Irghen

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So at the end of the day,
although this is clearly too much to ask at this stage of SGM's development, I think an ideal solution would be to provide difficulty options to players across all major game modes so different interests are catered to.

  • Fight conditions will be lenient with low difficulty, e.g. allowing multiple command grabs, whereas with high difficulty there're limitations placed on grab moves as you proposed.
  • Accordingly, rewards will be juicier with high difficulty.
This is already the case, the AI level increases in high streaks and Rift Battles where rewards are highest. There even were complains because training against a high level AI was not accessible.

And seriously, using several command grabs is really not that powerful. Yes it is useful, but there is a reason Bella and Beo have very limited options interacting with opponent buffs and debuffs. For example, I have a lvl 58 diamond Wulfsbane with 3 grab blockbusters, a comand grab and a take out and he's basically useless in the armor nodes in rifts.
 
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Emeraldrain

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This is already the case, the AI level increases in high streaks and Rift Battles where rewards are highest. There even were complains because training against a high level AI was not accessible.

And seriously, using several command grabs is really not that powerful. Yes it is useful, but there is a reason Bella and Beo have very limited options interacting with opponent buffs and debuffs. For example, I have a lvl 58 diamond Wulfsbane with 3 grab blockbusters, a comand grab and a take out and he's basically useless in the armor nodes in rifts.

I highly agree with this opinion.
The ability to grab infinitely is not invincible.
I think it's just one way to attack weaknesses.
 

Emeraldrain

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Noo, that is ok, the people have to use special cooldown, with one wulf shoot + harley won't charge fast enough to use it then of the AI get up, so if want to do that have to invest in more Special Cooldown.

If you allow unlimited catching because you have a specialty cooldown, it is useless to limit the catching specialty to one.
This is just a whining that your Robo Fortune node has been destroyed.
it prove your logic contradicted your reply.
In your opinion, if unlimited grab should be so harmful to the game, it should be banned in any case.

My opinion is that unlimited grab is not harmful to the game, it is just a way to attack weaknesses.
If you need to limit unrestricted catching, other types of unrestricted specialty should also be restricted. For example, an unlimited number of projectile fires.


It would not be difficult to limit these.
However, such changes will also limit your interest in the game.
 
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P4CTR4N

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This is already the case, the AI level increases in high streaks and Rift Battles where rewards are highest. There even were complains because training against a high level AI was not accessible.

And seriously, using several command grabs is really not that powerful. Yes it is useful, but there is a reason Bella and Beo have very limited options interacting with opponent buffs and debuffs. For example, I have a lvl 58 diamond Wulfsbane with 3 grab blockbusters, a comand grab and a take out and he's basically useless in the armor nodes in rifts.
Was already destroyed a rift boss with armor and all only with 3 wulf shoot and grabs, that is not funny, I'm talking of Special Moves*
 

P4CTR4N

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If you allow unlimited catching because you have a specialty cooldown, it is useless to limit the catching specialty to one.
This is just a whining that your Robo Fortune node has been destroyed.
it prove your logic contradicted your reply.
In your opinion, if unlimited grab shouldn't be so harmful to the game, it should be banned in any case.

My opinion is that unlimited grab is not harmful to the game, it is just a way to attack weaknesses.
If you need to limit unrestricted catching, other types of unrestricted specialty should also be restricted. For example, an unlimited number of projectile fires.


It would not be difficult to limit these.
However, such changes will also limit your interest in the game.
What are you talking about?? If they invest in special cooldown they lose a lot of stats of attack, crit, etc., jajajajaja and using harley they are losing one spot in their teams.