Fights How to revamp elemental advantage stuff

[Pepperlunatic]

Well we all do not give a damn about elemental advantage and just use whatever is the top tier and the counter. There has been attempts to make elemental advantage matter by using sacrosanct and those weird double variants but all are pretty much a failure. After fighting with countless number of annoying untouchables and resonant evils, I have realiazed one good way to make it more strategic and fun: make defensive abilities(x happens when hit or convert certain debuff to buff) less potent if attacker is at elemental advantage and make offensive abilities(like apply debuff or deal extra damage stuff) less potent when attacker is at elemental disadvantage.

For example #1, if buzzkill is attacking untouchable, bulletproof ability triggers even less often and have shorter unflinching duration while buzzkill applies heavy bleed more often.
For example #2, if diva intervention is attacking resonant evil, armor and stuns from resonant evil are less likely to happen while diva intervention's sa heal her more and recovers more meter.
For example #3, if harlequin gets surgeon general's buffs while fighting brain freeze, the buff duration is decreased.

This way, players can think about elemental advantage as a variable that actually matters and have to be more strategic on how to build a defense or break the defense without just using same s-tier stuff. Of course, before implementing this, you guys should make some good fire defense characters and so on.

 

[Cellsai]

Making SAs less potent in general when versus their weakness element is an interesting idea!
It'd be a nightmare to make work from a dev point though I imagine. You'd effectively have to make 3 versions of each SA (at advantage, neutral and disadvantage) because you can't just apply a blanket 'is half as good when at a disadvantage' due to the variety of SAs available.

 

[cappatacus]

I personally like the current element system where having the upper hand doesn't make a huge impact in a fight but can be built upon to make a better attacker/defender. I don't mind this idea, but imo there would be a thin line between making the buff time decrease a nice perk versus making some fights too easy. A Rusty vs RE already has an easy time, but that's just gonna increase it. Again, that's not bad in and of itself, but I think it would be easy to overdo it.

 

[Splendid]

One more thing, how is RE weak against any light fighter so that his armor procs less often? Light and dark are strong against one another, neither of them can be considered at a disadvantage.

 

[Pepperlunatic]

One more thing, how is RE weak against any light fighter so that his armor procs less often? Light and dark are strong against one another, neither of them can be considered at a disadvantage.

Both of them has advantages in attacks and disadvantages in defense. While RE may not be efficient at gaining armor against rusty, any modifers to his damage and debuff application when RE attacks(even the high streak modifiers like Assassin) are also amplified. So any countrrattack done by RE will be very deadly to light characters like rusty. So basically they are at advantage and disadvantage at the same time theoretically.

 

[Pepperlunatic]

I personally like the current element system where having the upper hand doesn't make a huge impact in a fight but can be built upon to make a better attacker/defender. I don't mind this idea, but imo there would be a thin line between making the buff time decrease a nice perk versus making some fights too easy. A Rusty vs RE already has an easy time, but that's just gonna increase it. Again, that's not bad in and of itself, but I think it would be easy to overdo it.

Rusty vs RE, I understand your concern but you have to also note that in level 60 or higher, you would be most likely using sketchy or purrfect dark to deal with him rather than use gold rusty so you would barely feel any difference on that part. Even if this revamped elemental system is applied and rusty may be more efficient in dealing with RE, you must know that counterattacks can be far more devastating for rusty as well especially in the high streak run or boss or mini boss nodes. Also, considering that i did not said that base stats unmodified by modifiers and sa will not be affected and thus bleed resist will work regardless, it won't be as easy as we think.

 

[Cellsai]

One more thing, how is RE weak against any light fighter so that his armor procs less often? Light and dark are strong against one another, neither of them can be considered at a disadvantage.

Headstrong Cerebella adds Armor Break to all her throws. She counters RE nicely!

 

[VictuTheNewb]

Tha sounds like something that could add gameplay depth to Temple Tyrant and Rainbow Blight, but... Wouldn't that ruin Armed Forces' SA or make Meow and Furever unstoppable? I feel like a below 5% chance would only trigger with Parasoul's BB3, and a shorter cooldown for Miss Fortune's stun would be annoying. Maybe reducing the enemy character's meter gain and crit damage+crit chance would help a little more. Most people build crit-based characters around crit damage and chance, while those characters can hit a defender multiple times in a single combo(for example, when a No Egrets Parasoul uses her BB3 or when Parasite Weave uses her air combo into Furball).

 

[Pepperlunatic]

Tha sounds like something that could add gameplay depth to Temple Tyrant and Rainbow Blight, but... Wouldn't that ruin Armed Forces' SA or make Meow and Furever unstoppable? I feel like a below 5% chance would only trigger with Parasoul's BB3, and a shorter cooldown for Miss Fortune's stun would be annoying. Maybe reducing the enemy character's meter gain and crit damage+crit chance would help a little more. Most people build crit-based characters around crit damage and chance, while those characters can hit a defender multiple times in a single combo(for example, when a No Egrets Parasoul uses her BB3 or when Parasite Weave uses her air combo into Furball).

You must remember that all of what value must change or not is not set yet. The only thing that is set in my idea is to have reduced or increased efficiency in sa and modifiers based on elemental advantage. So as long as HV isn't lazy, which i highly doubt they are, you shouldn't see something like meow and furever being op against dark characters. For Armed Force, it is pretty fine imo since fire characters like harlequin should counter her based on the elemental advantage while things like silent kill shouldn't based on the elemental advantage.

 

[Splendid]

Rusty vs RE, I understand your concern but you have to also note that in level 60 or higher, you would be most likely using sketchy or purrfect dark to deal with him rather than use gold rusty so you would barely feel any difference on that part. Even if this revamped elemental system is applied and rusty may be more efficient in dealing with RE, you must know that counterattacks can be far more devastating for rusty as well especially in the high streak run or boss or mini boss nodes. Also, considering that i did not said that base stats unmodified by modifiers and sa will not be affected and thus bleed resist will work regardless, it won't be as easy as we think.

Right now the only fighter i trust when dealing with RE is rainbow. I got a rainbow with max chaos so when she turns to light, i can hex then proceed to unload 2 lines of debuff and usually finish off the RE.