1. [2018/06/22]
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Other List of things that could use a buff

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by xcapibara, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. xcapibara

    xcapibara Active Member

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    Hello, since a dev said there’s no plans to nerf anything, how about a suggestion list for the opposite? The things that could really use a buff because they’re lacking in comparison to similar characters/tiers or just in general?

    That’s All Folks Peacock could really use a buff to her SA: peacock is not the most tanky character and having her sa activate by being hit is not so good. The percentage to activate the enrage is very low too as well as its duration. It doesn’t work for defensive purposes either since it doesn’t serve to keep her alive or “stump” the player like proper defense chars such as resonant evil, armed forces, untochable, meow n furever, or the ones that resurrect.
    Offensively (if you survive the beatdown needed to activate the enrage, actually do get it, and have enough time to retaliate before it runs out), it pales in comparison to many other characters that can get the enrages from simply beating the opponent, using special moves, or even from the very beginning of the match.
    And its such a shame since the Thats all folks pallete is so nice!
    I’d suggest changing her SA to one that does not require getting hit to be activated. Or giving a good increase to the chance percentage and the duration. Or make it perma enrage(s). Or getting the enrage after the opponent blocks a combo or a blockbuster (tantrum!). Or all/some/combination of the above.

    What other things you think may need a buff, it doesn’t have to be characters only (for instance, i think some marquee abilities could use a buff too!)?
     
  2. Reshiram18

    Reshiram18 Well-Known Member

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    Stand Out needs a buff quite badly. Increasing her buff removal chance to even something as low as 60% would let her stand out from the other buff removers available.
     
    molly and Zachary Baumstark like this.
  3. xcapibara

    xcapibara Active Member

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    Not really, her thing isn’t buff removal as much as buff “denial”. Other buff removers such as silent kill have a 25% chance on hit, but thats every hit, her very dash attack hits 5 times increasing the odds of it happening. With stand out is a one time 50% to avoid that RE from getting that armor or that AF from getting that unflinching.

    Just saying, a buff denial of even 60% is still way too low for all the 100% certainty cheaper alternatives (check the stand out thread for a discussion on the matter).

    She needs more than a slight buff, she needs a big buff.
     
  4. Cenacle

    Cenacle New Member

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    I think it should be less than 100% (60-75% sounds good) specifically because other buff removers in the game so far, the two that spring to mind being Silent Kill and Summer Salt, don't gain meter from the Buff Removal. It's possible for Stand Out, under the right conditions, to infinitely loop BB3s against opponents like Resonant Evil, Meow and Furever, Armed Forces, Untouchable etc., because with so many hits on Lady of Slaughter, these fighters have lots of chances to activate their buff-on-hit Signatures. The buffs are denied and, mid Blockbuster, you already have 25, 50, 75% of your meter back. Once you charge her BB3 once, you're set.
    The problem for me is that the buff denial is her second Signature, and her first is...very underwhelming. 50% Drain as long as you're losing is something I'd put on a Silver, maybe a Gold, but certainly not a Natural Diamond. Two Diamond Keys and several Million coins later, you're finally getting to the good part of her ability and able to activate it with some frequency. Other Natural Diamonds like Summer Salt, Love Crafted, Freeze Frame and Assassin's Greed have very good first Signatures, and after maybe one Diamond Key and half a million coins are somewhat ready to use. They get better with their second Signature unlocked, sure, but their first is enough to render them usable until you can get the necessary Diamond Keys. Not as much the case with Stand Out.
     
    #4 Cenacle, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  5. NinjaPenguin76

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    Correct me if I'm not considering something vital that is a prominent factor in high level play, but I just wanted to throw my 2¢ in as a general statement on balance that (technically) applies here. I feel it's very questionable for there to be units who are pretty much considered just hot garabage among the whole community. Yes, of course I understand the structure of having a hierarchy of 'worst to best' in the terms of 'bronze to diamond' natural units. However, I feel rather than a unit simply having SA's/MA's that are just widely accepted to be straight up bad even in niche situations is a bit unhealthy.
    That's to say as for tiers I think the ranking format should be:
    1. Good
    2. Very Good
    3. Great
    4. The Lord Hath Blessed Me ★*.°☆*\( ̄▽ ̄)/☆*.°★*
    Rather than:
    1. Worst to unexpectedly good
    2. Bronze quality with silver costs to 'um I think they forgot to slap a gold border on this puppy'
    3. Generally good to MMM GIMME DAT
    4. The Lord Hath Blessed Me ★*.°☆*\( ̄▽ ̄)/☆*.°★*
      (Generally speaking, since a nat diamond is a nice pull however you slice it more or less)
    Outside of that, I fail to understand the reasoning between in-tier superiority (espeeeecially on the SAME character), as opposed to 'X is good at this, while Y is good at that'. Like why have Rerun with only enrage for tag ins on her SA while Sketchy shares the tier but just purely has Immunity and Haste? Beyond that, stats too- even with the same example Rerun has a whopping 20 more base HP while having 136 less base atk. It no make-a-de-sense (。ヘ°)

    I mainly take issue with most of this because any unit can be taken all the way to Diamond, and I feel like there should be an incentive for any and every unit who isn't already such at base to be worth evolving, even if it's not explicitly worth getting them all the way to Diamond.

    Feels bad to sit on a bronze who you kinda want to do really just something with because in their bronze state you find them meh but you can't justify it because it's not like they're gonna be even good enough to have for a discount silver/gold/diamond- as you simply couldn't justify evolving them with 3 other same-tier units, yknow...because you'd just evolve those instead given you clearly have them in the first place if that's on the table.

    This might not be a real issue to me IF using units for XP fodder weren't grotesquely inefficient, even for units that you just wouldn't waste a clean trash bag on. You just do not get remotely enough XP to justify it unless we got relics like free candy, but we don't. The higher you get the more demanding it becomes to satisfy story missions either via needing specific teams, tiers, or just overall needing to be strong enough to match the curve. That means summons get rarer and you have to spend theo on them, but with the current draw rates you're wasting SO much theo if you spend it on relics and then use them for XP fodder. If nothing else they're better gathering dust to evolve a good unit provided you ever get one.

    Anyways these are general thoughts, I'm still mostly content with the ranks or whatnot but I do genuinely see flaw in these regards nonetheless. I'm far enough along that I don't have much hangup on these things, but new players will be really discouraged when they see this and many no doubt ditched the game before getting too far for those reasons.
     
    #5 NinjaPenguin76, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  6. WeabooTrash

    WeabooTrash New Member

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    Raw Nerve Painwheel: Despite sporting the coolest colour palette imo- has a lot of wasted potential. Whilst it’s indisputable that her stats are pretty promising and certainly pack an offensive punch, her SA unfortunately lets her down due to the fact that she has to take a lot of damage for it to activate. Permanent enrage and haste are invaluable buffs to an offensive character like painwheel but because Raw Nerve needs to have low health for her SA to activate she tends to be outright killed before she can land a buffed hit.

    As for reworking her, a couple ideas I came up with that don’t stray too far from her current SA are:

    1. increasing the percentages (I.e permanent enrage under 50% health, permanent haste under 75% health). Whilst she would require to be hit, the increased percentages give her a lot of leeway, she’d still remain as a “high risk, high reward” type character but would be a lot more useful.

    2. having an SA similar to ‘hellcat’ Fortune, perhaps she could have permanent enrage whilst over 50% health and permanent haste whilst under 50% health. This would really allow her to dish out damage the moment she’s on the field, substantially damaging the enemy. The ‘haste’ part of this SA would be helpful as it would allow her to charge up BB3s easier to finish enemies whilst she’s on low health, giving her an opportunity to turn the tables on the opponent. I’d personally really like this idea as it fits in with painwheels offensive play style and somewhat punishes the opponent for damaging her, in this case it would increase the chance of her pulling off a BB3.
     
    #6 WeabooTrash, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    Renn and NinjaPenguin76 like this.
  7. NinjaPenguin76

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    I agree and feel somewhat similarly about Rage Appropriate (2nd SA)- I just fought a Rage Appropriate with around 6k FS and beat her with a 2k silver Beatbox. I was spooked for just a moment when the regen starting rivaling my dps nearly, but yknow when you beat the crap out of a Painwheel down to 20% hp on Big Band you just will inevitably have tuba fist (forgot the actual name lul) up and then all you do is press that and watch it melt her lol. Painwheel in general is a glass cannon among glass cannons and I feel should be treated as such in not just stats but abilities. Painwheel's got more units in the A rank of the defender tier list than the attacker one- that's borderline blasphemous right there. I mean literally she's got a whopping 2 variants above A rank attack and one of them is a base bronze.

    I can't truthfully get behind in any single circumstance her SA involving her getting whooped on- in fact truth be told I think Dreadlocks SA belongs on Painwheel somewhere more than Filia. Yeah, yeah, I know she's got spiky hair and shiz, but Painwheel IS PRACTICALLY MADE OF SPIKES AND BLADES- WHO MADE THIS DECISION? She's got a Marquee ability (think it is anyways) that is like a poor mans dreadlocks requiring her to be crit, and I can't even remember if the numbers were comparable to dreadlocks, though I wanna say it was lower. Why, just why, does the squishiest character (next to Ms Fortune) want to be crit ever?

    The reason as it stands that Painwheel has not one variant above A rank defender is because she's not even meant to be such- she's only a good defender in any circumstance because she just does a stupid amount of damage and if someone drops a frame then they can be 1 shot. Even then, I've taken out Painwheels so disgustingly out of my FS range (elemental advantage and everything) that it's not even funny because of how squish she is. The whole premise of making her have anything but pure slaughtering offense abilities makes me feel like someone smoked weed before making that call going 'heheh bro y'know what'd be sooo funny? (・`ω´・)"
     

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