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Making Blocks More Skill Oriented

Jezuz

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As a big Street Fighter, Tekken, Smash Bros, and Skullgirls fan I can say that the Skullgirls mobile block ability is on of the most unbalanced blocks I've used. There's no window to how long it can be held, and the fact that trying to rush grab a blocked target would end up being most likely parried and punished. I would like to introduce a new mechanic for the future Skullgirls mobile game. The the block happens to whiff, it is automatically put into a mini "cooldown" and punishable. The current block makes the game way to easy and I would like to see future official changes to more mechanics, as well as HOPEFULLY multiplayer so I can school a couple friends I've gotten into this game.
 

Altarion

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May I ask why this is a bug? óÒ

The idea of a more skillful block seems nice. But it has to be balanced really well to not mess things up. And if there was a timer, how would you change Double and her CA, because she depends extremely on her block.

And I believe there will never be a real multiplayer, because the way the game works.
 

ImaiKari

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As a big Street Fighter, Tekken, Smash Bros, and Skullgirls fan I can say that the Skullgirls mobile block ability is on of the most unbalanced blocks I've used. There's no window to how long it can be held, and the fact that trying to rush grab a blocked target would end up being most likely parried and punished. I would like to introduce a new mechanic for the future Skullgirls mobile game. The the block happens to whiff, it is automatically put into a mini "cooldown" and punishable. The current block makes the game way to easy and I would like to see future official changes to more mechanics, as well as HOPEFULLY multiplayer so I can school a couple friends I've gotten into this game.
The difference you are not taking into account is that we only fight AI opponents and they are easily predictable. You can dash and then if you see them attacking you can block instead. It's really quite simple to take an enemy out of block. Heck, with big band, you can just attack the block and always whip out your noise cancel after a few hits and 100% of the time they will trigger the noise cancel and you have thus gotten free guaranteed stun. This is a non issue, and please don't post it in the bug section of the forums.
 

Jezuz

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The difference you are not taking into account is that we only fight AI opponents and they are easily predictable. You can dash and then if you see them attacking you can block instead. It's really quite simple to take an enemy out of block. Heck, with big band, you can just attack the block and always whip out your noise cancel after a few hits and 100% of the time they will trigger the noise cancel and you have thus gotten free guaranteed stun. This is a non issue, and please don't post it in the bug section of the forums.
I saw that this was
The difference you are not taking into account is that we only fight AI opponents and they are easily predictable. You can dash and then if you see them attacking you can block instead. It's really quite simple to take an enemy out of block. Heck, with big band, you can just attack the block and always whip out your noise cancel after a few hits and 100% of the time they will trigger the noise cancel and you have thus gotten free guaranteed stun. This is a non issue, and please don't post it in the bug section of the forums.
i accidentally posted his here. Using a mobile phone is hard. How do I delete this?
 

Vallorane

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I may even say that this is a redundant complication for this game. I would recommend to you just to start blocking when opponent will parry your grab. A little bit practice and you will be unbeatable king of Skullgirls.
This ticket will be probably moved to proper section by Liam.
 

Ownface

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I saw that this was

i accidentally posted his here. Using a mobile phone is hard. How do I delete this?

Hey @Jezuz, no worries, I'll go ahead and move this post to the suggestions forum. Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Jezuz

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Hey @Jezuz, no worries, I'll go ahead and move this post to the suggestions forum. Thanks for the feedback!
I am so sorry about this but my phone accidentally posted the same thing twice on the feedback forum. Can you delete them?
 

Jezuz

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I may even say that this is a redundant complication for this game. I would recommend to you just to start blocking when opponent will parry your grab. A little bit practice and you will be unbeatable king of Skullgirls.
This ticket will be probably moved to proper section by Liam.
Grabbing against certain characters like Cerebella is not possible as their parries stun you in an animation for an extremely long time.
 

Jezuz

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The difference you are not taking into account is that we only fight AI opponents and they are easily predictable. You can dash and then if you see them attacking you can block instead. It's really quite simple to take an enemy out of block. Heck, with big band, you can just attack the block and always whip out your noise cancel after a few hits and 100% of the time they will trigger the noise cancel and you have thus gotten free guaranteed stun. This is a non issue, and please don't post it in the bug section of the forums.
But the problem is once you've gotten into the higher stages of a winstreak (this starts happening around 8 wins) or the third stage of Origin Story Mode, the AI start becoming almost perfect, and the meta game suddenly becomes block or be blocked. You're stuck with characters like Beowulf and Cerebella with non-ultimate specials and busters that can not be blocked. It gets very very repetitive. I'm currently on a 20 winstreak in the Big Band event and the noise cancel method you've proposed does not work. The AI will not just attack into it, you have to predict it.
 

Jezuz

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May I ask why this is a bug? óÒ

The idea of a more skillful block seems nice. But it has to be balanced really well to not mess things up. And if there was a timer, how would you change Double and her CA, because she depends extremely on her block.

And I believe there will never be a real multiplayer, because the way the game works.
Double can very easily be changed. A suggestion I can propose is a successful block procing her ability.
 

ImaiKari

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But the problem is once you've gotten into the higher stages of a winstreak (this starts happening around 8 wins) or the third stage of Origin Story Mode, the AI start becoming almost perfect, and the meta game suddenly becomes block or be blocked. You're stuck with characters like Beowulf and Cerebella with non-ultimate specials and busters that can not be blocked. It gets very very repetitive. I'm currently on a 20 winstreak in the Big Band event and the noise cancel method you've proposed does not work. The AI will not just attack into it, you have to predict it.
I stated that if you attack them while they are blocking at least into L4 then press noise cancel they will always trigger it. And they will. At Max AI.
 

Jezuz

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I stated that if you attack them while they are blocking at least into L4 then press noise cancel they will always trigger it. And they will. At Max AI.
  1. I've tested this out at max AI and this is not relevant. It's a prediction move, not a one all be all.
  2. Simply buffing grabs would just make another skill oriented game into a side scrolling button mash. I do not plan to see this game go in that direction.
 

Ownface

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Here's the response from @ImaiKari on the other thread. Closing out the others to keep the convo in one thread!

1.
As a big Street Fighter, Tekken, Smash Bros, and Skullgirls fan I can say that the Skullgirls mobile block ability is on of the most unbalanced blocks I've used. There's no window to how long it can be held, and the fact that trying to rush grab a blocked target would end up being most likely parried and punished.

Unless you're grabbing a cerebella, you can block immediately after any failed grab to avoid punishment. This point is mute.

2.
I would like to introduce a new mechanic for the future Skullgirls mobile game. The the block happens to whiff, it is automatically put into a mini "cooldown" and punishable. The current block makes the game way to easy and I would like to see future official changes to more mechanics...

The block lingering is not a problem. There are several ways to get someone out of a block. A: Unblockable charge attacks. These will easily get the job done. B: Dash-grab/grab unless you're fighting a cerebella, you cannot be punished for grabbing unless you do it while they're attacking, which is a fault of yours. C: Dash in, attack, dash back. This will almost always lure the AI into challenging you, to which you can hit them when they miss as a punish. The current block in the game makes it so that you have to use other methods, and a timer would make it far too complicated for little to no gain.

3.
as well as HOPEFULLY multiplayer so I can school a couple friends I've gotten into this game. Double can be tweaked to how every successful block is changed into the type with the advantage. People may say that it's very easy to predict AI and the block is balanced. However, the AI progressively get more difficult to counter as they start preforming almost perfectly.

Multiplayer is not a likelihood for this game by any stretch. It may happen, but based on how the game is built, it is unlikely. Adding a mechanic to make blocks shorter is just another way to make multiplayer needlessly more complex and make block essentially unusable. Nobody would block unless they were getting hit by the most obvious attack. The AI at high tier does not perform perfectly and has very obvious patterns that you can abuse, and all the things I have stated in either thread apply to max level AI.

4.
Also, characters like Eliza have terrible grabs. Her animation to even do damage is huge and has a huge window to parry. This concern is mostly because I'm really excited for multiplayer and would do anything to make it happen.

There are some terrible grabs that need to be buffed, but they still remove the enemy from a block. As for multiplayer, as I've stated, the game is not built with multiplayer in mind and I would not get your hopes up for that to be a possibility before normal content. I'm sure it's in the dev's line of sight, but likely not in the near future, or before all the characters have been released.
All in all, the block feature is already balanced ina away that is challenging and forces players to use other tactics instead of spamming tap.
 
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Jezuz

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I can list multiple things that grabbing won't fix. Parries: Parasol sets you up for a Sniper Shot and depending on if you're character is slow or not she can end up full juggling you. Painwheel can lead up with almost any of her damaging specials and block busters with range(depending on the character size)
The point of spamming tap is irrelevant as the end animation of the tap spam is punishable by every character by rush canceling(or if you have a quick rush attack like Beowulf)
 

ImaiKari

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I can list multiple things that grabbing won't fix. Parries: Parasol sets you up for a Sniper Shot and depending on if you're character is slow or not she can end up full juggling you. Painwheel can lead up with almost any of her damaging specials and block busters with range(depending on the character size)
The point of spamming tap is irrelevant as the end animation of the tap spam is punishable by every character by rush canceling(or if you have a quick rush attack like Beowulf)
This is simply untrue. You can block literally everything after you fail to grab as long as the enemy isn't a cerebella. This is just a fact of the game.

Also, I know for a fact that the big band noise cancel will work a vast majority of the time. I've been doing it against max teams for a good while, and I have yet to ever see it fail.
 

Jezuz

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This is simply untrue. You can block literally everything after you fail to grab as long as the enemy isn't a cerebella. This is just a fact of the game.

Also, I know for a fact that the big band noise cancel will work a vast majority of the time. I've been doing it against max teams for a good while, and I have yet to ever see it fail.
I've been playing for a long time, testing multiple things on practice and Origin stories. And I can safely say that my tests were correct. As I've said, there are MANY ways take advantage of the parry animation.
Just saying that it's "part of the game" does not justify the fact that it would limit yourself to "Big Band is the holy grail." It becomes repetitive, uncomplicated, downright unsatisfactying. A good game makes it so it grabs you with the game mechanics, and just noise canceling is boring.
Let's not forget the fact that when you rush an intelligent AI they WILL stop you mid dash and punish you for rushing their blocked state. As I've said, the meta game of block until the AI does something is very stale.
 

ImaiKari

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I've been playing for a long time, testing multiple things on practice and Origin stories. And I can safely say that my tests were correct. As I've said, there are MANY ways take advantage of the parry animation.
Just saying that it's "part of the game" does not justify the fact that it would limit yourself to "Big Band is the holy grail." It becomes repetitive, uncomplicated, downright unsatisfactying. A good game makes it so it grabs you with the game mechanics, and just noise canceling is boring.
Let's not forget the fact that when you rush an intelligent AI they WILL stop you mid dash and punish you for rushing their blocked state. As I've said, the meta game of block until the AI does something is very stale.
I've been playing since hard launch. I don't see your point. You are absolutely incorrect, and I can gladly get video of it to prove it if need be. If you don't get how to block then that's you, not the game. I'm sorry that you're having issues with getting past block, but the general consensus is that it's easy to get past and requires little effort. I'm talking max level AI. I don't wanna say "Git gud", but the problems you are finding are not because the game isn't letting you block or grab, and are not because the game just happens to be having the enemy mid-swing when you dive into them. Block is a simple mechanic to beat out.
 
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Altarion

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Double can very easily be changed. A suggestion I can propose is a successful block procing her ability.
That's not an easy change. That's the complete opposite to what she does right now. Double would have to get multiple changes to her SA's to make it all work properly.
 
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