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Natural Diamonds discussion thread

Are Natural Diamonds a good idea?


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xcapibara

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I think natural diamonds are an excellent way to re balance the game for newer players. I know it has taken me a long time to get here ("here", being four diamonds built the old-fashioned way) but I don't know if the game would be as fun if I were just starting out. The gold-tier PFs are getting packed with diamond fighters, and the threshold for earning gold fighters has topped 10 million for months now.

New players deserve a chance at competitive play. Also, the devs deserve some money for all their work. Seems like a solution to both problems.

I suspect there will be a wafer-thin chance to pull a diamond from a relic. I also suspect there will be diamond shards that slowly accumulate when you obtain a gold fighter. Finally, the Rift treasure may be directly tied to diamond fighters, relics, or shards in some unforeseeable way.

Of course, veteran gamers are already positioning themselves for the Rift, and covering the more likely of the natural Diamond vectors. Anything that can be given to a noob will be farmed by a vet.

Why would the lack of a hard earned diamond card or not winning a pf gold at level 10 be a fun killer for a new player unless said new player has too high expectations of insta-satisfaction?

And no, new players do not deserve a chance to win a gold pf without the proper level and cards or be “competitive” against the teams of veteran players. I’m hoping i wont see a level 10 player with a diamond: not only it devalues the eforts of players who evolved diamonds, it also devalues the diamond itself.
 
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infine

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And no, new players do not deserve a chance to win a gold pf without the proper level and cards or be “competitive” against the teams of veteran players.
TBH a year ago gold PF 10% cutoff was around 6mil because you didn't have to compete against all the veterans. The "true" veterans didn't really put as much effort to assemble a decent team to compete in PFs as a new player has to now. Because you didn't have to compete against diamonds and big gold rosters that allow for spamming 30k fs teams from streak one.

Of course these days you get much more relics (via elemental PF milestones and more storyline missions available) and a bit more coins (master dailies) thrown at you, so new players aren't as screwed as they could be, but I feel that a barrier to entry into 10% gold cutoff is higher than it used to be.
 
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BallotBoxer

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Even if super lucky to draw it, a level 10 player with a Diamond doesn't have the resources to support it. Imagine a skill tree that requires truckloads of Canopy coins and hundreds of character points to unlock a node. Even worse, what if they introduce diamond keys? :eek:

NATURAL DIAMONDS

Dark Might Beowulf
Heavy Metal Big Band
Heavy Handed Cerebella
Jawbreaker Double
Stand Out Eliza
Class Cutter Filia
Furry Fury Ms. Fortune
Fly Trap Painwheel
Summer Salt Parasoul

Only three left! (Peacock, Squigly, and Valentine)

Most likely Peacock will be Water element, so I expect either #9 Cirno (Touhou) or #12 Cable (Marvel VS Capcom 2)
 
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Brother Null

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I think my opinion springs from the natural cycle of games. Mobile games, especially. Games have an initial surge in interest, then they enter a period of steady growth as the game is fleshed out with new features and special events.

Eventually, the game reaches a point of saturation; there are fewer new players and the main focus of the dev team is to retain the current player base for as long as they can. This period is one of steady (or not-so-steady) decline, as the "old guard" slowly drifts away.

I am in favor of natural diamonds, and definitely in favor of a level 10 noob who "does not deserve to win" getting one. They will be gobsmacked. They will treasure it, and play with a vigor that might otherwise be spent playing Fortnite.

And then, something magical happens: we get to *keep* them. And their friends. And, every one with a similar experience. And we continue to grow because the devs continue to get paid for their effort.

If only the best players get natural diamonds, then we are on the wrong side of the hype curve. The devs release this update to appease the "old guard" players because there is no hope in expanding the player base any more. That's what happens before development enters a "maintenance mode". That's what games look like before they die.
 

cappatacus

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I think my opinion springs from the natural cycle of games. Mobile games, especially. Games have an initial surge in interest, then they enter a period of steady growth as the game is fleshed out with new features and special events.

Eventually, the game reaches a point of saturation; there are fewer new players and the main focus of the dev team is to retain the current player base for as long as they can. This period is one of steady (or not-so-steady) decline, as the "old guard" slowly drifts away.

I am in favor of natural diamonds, and definitely in favor of a level 10 noob who "does not deserve to win" getting one. They will be gobsmacked. They will treasure it, and play with a vigor that might otherwise be spent playing Fortnite.

And then, something magical happens: we get to *keep* them. And their friends. And, every one with a similar experience. And we continue to grow because the devs continue to get paid for their effort.

If only the best players get natural diamonds, then we are on the wrong side of the hype curve. The devs release this update to appease the "old guard" players because there is no hope in expanding the player base any more. That's what happens before development enters a "maintenance mode". That's what games look like before they die.
As upset as I initially was about the idea of a level 5 getting my Summer Salt or Jawbreaker, that's a good point to bring up. I mean, I remember how happy I was to get my first silver - Blood Drive. It made playing even more exciting.

Plus, a newcomer with a diamond isn't very threatening because they probably won't be able to max it out. They'll just get to have fun with it.
 
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xcapibara

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Talking about at which stage of said natural cycle of mobile games is sgm at the moment is pointless unless you’re one of the developers and well informed about their finances (which in itself is irrelevant from a player point of view when discussing game features). There’s also another concern when it comes to my previous example, a level 10 player with a natural diamond, besides the devaluation of effort and rarity: power creep.

If anyone can get a diamond then diamonds start to become common place on every player “tier” then diamonds mean nothing and even more powerful op cards will have to be released to appease the older players, etc, etc.

(Or, since talking about mobile games formulas and experiences, just don’t care about them and phase them out as other mobile games have done)

Having the resources to support or not a lucky draw diamond at level 10 is irrelevant, it shouldn’t be, diamonds become the new golds.

Power creep and the devaluation of effort to satisfy newer players who “do not deserve a CHANCE to win” at what is supposed to be the higher tiers of competition in this game at least until some effort (and time/money/whatever) have been put into it do not sound like a reasonable proposition to me.
 

Irghen

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devaluation of effort to satisfy newer players who “do not deserve a CHANCE to win” at what is supposed to be the higher tiers of competition in this game at least until some effort (and time/money/whatever) have been put into it

How isn't it grinding the insane amount of money and ability points a diamond is sure to require not putting in a lot of effort into the game?

I got my first gold quite early (Untouchable) but she was pretty damn useless a) by herself and b) because I couldn't afford upgrading her skill tree, Yeah, she was a big help, but she was quickly displaced by my Big Top as my main fighter.

But grinding FOR that character netted me XP/Gold/understanding of the game and got me into some sort of competitive shape. I mean, I have only been able to get to a 25 streak in a gold PF but even that proves my point: getting some gold characters did not automatically got me competing for high prizes.

And as for Power Creep goes, I'll bet we'll be seing some "Diamond PF" or some equivalent End Game content soon.

What actually worries me about Diamonds, is that collecting just got so much harder. I NEED Summer Salt but who knows how much am I going to have to grind and gamble for her.
 
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Tom Kulczewski

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Alright. Untouchable just got power crept as a defensive variant.
 

cappatacus

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How isn't it grinding the insane amount of money and ability points a diamond is sure to require not putting in a lot of effort into the game?

I got my first gold quite early (Untouchable) but she was pretty damn useless a) by herself and b) because I couldn't afford upgrading her skill tree, Yeah, she was a big help, but she was quickly displaced by my Big Top as my main fighter.

But grinding FOR that character netted me XP/Gold/understanding of the game and got me into some sort of competitive shape. I mean, I have only been able to get to a 25 streak in a gold PF but even that proves my point: getting some gold characters did not automatically got me competing for high prizes.

And as for Power Creep goes, I'll bet we'll be seing some "Diamond PF" or some equivalent End Game content soon.

What actually worries me about Diamonds, is that collecting just got so much harder. I NEED Summer Salt but who knows how much am I going to have to grind and gamble for her.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. There's going to be such a slim chance of getting diamonds that you won't have to worry about them suddenly becoming common for all players. I mean, you could argue that now if you're looking at gold prize fights. Half of the gold defense teams have at least one diamond. The resources needed for diamonds, especially naturals, means that you'll still really only see end game players with diamonds that pose a threat.

Also, it's not pointless to talk about the cycle of the game when discussing it's features. History repeats itself, so user knowledge is worth something - even if we don't know all of the developer's plans.
 

cappatacus

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Well dang
https://mobile.twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1068687283107188736
This looks like a pretty freakin’ strong Peacock right here
Wither AND slow on special moves and BBs (?) and stuns on block? Maybe only when opponent is debuffed? Also looks like opponent takes damage when debuffs expire? Scary!
This one kind of hit me like Flytrap did - it seems fine, but overall underwhelming. Maybe I just think that because I associate water characters with being bad lol

Hopefully she's better than I think, for all those Peacock fans
 

fanghoul

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Well dang
https://mobile.twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1068687283107188736
This looks like a pretty freakin’ strong Peacock right here
Wither AND slow on special moves and BBs (?) and stuns on block? Maybe only when opponent is debuffed? Also looks like opponent takes damage when debuffs expire? Scary!

Huh, I thought maybe she was dealing damage per second stunned, but you may be right. It's also possible the stun is activated when the debuff runs out.

Whether she's good really depends on whether that life lost is like a bleed and removing a set % of the enemy's life, which we really can't tell from this. But that's probably not the case, because those are big chunks of life bar being lost.
 

Reshiram18

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I am excited for Freeze Frame myself because it is the first meter control Peacock we have ever gotten. The SA also seems to be a cooler way to use stun than other than just wailing on your opponent with regular attacks.
 
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Veeko

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Huh, I thought maybe she was dealing damage per second stunned, but you may be right. It's also possible the stun is activated when the debuff runs out.

Whether she's good really depends on whether that life lost is like a bleed and removing a set % of the enemy's life, which we really can't tell from this. But that's probably not the case, because those are big chunks of life bar being lost.
I think you’re right! Parasoul does get stunned as soon as the debuff runs out, and it’d make more sense for those to be related- when a debuff expires, the opponent takes X damage and is stunned for X amount of time? That’s a really cool SA! Whether or not it’s that or the damage per second stunned, or the damage ends up being percentage based, I like her! Seems like a fun variant to play with. A unique ability, without being ridiculously situational.
 
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Takio

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Diamond Squigly just dropped and she has an interesting set of debuffs

BB Disable and Healblock
Heavy Bleed and Death Mark for a couple seconds

The disable stuff is a bit hard to really gleam anything from, but for me it looks like a chance on hit or when hit on block.
these buffs disappear after a special move was used.

Heavy Bleed and death mark happened on hit, but the hit was also a crit, so a bit hard to say what exactly, but it's certainly a chance as well.

So a pretty offensive variant.
 

Veeko

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Extremely disappointed by palette choice. Seems like a good variant I guess but I think I’ll stick to Bio
 

cappatacus

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Between keeping up heavy bleed and death mark on the opponent, as well as natural diamond stats, I'm happy with this one. Simple and effective SA. I'm all for it
 

Takio

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Someone pointed out that the disable stuff only stays as long as the 2 fighters are really close. if the distance is just a bit too far these debuffs gets removed.
 
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Veeko

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The Heal Block and BB disable do definitely look like they’re proximity based. I can’t say I’m sure what exactly triggers the bleed and death mark, though. Crits, combo counter, timing, hits while charged? Seems pretty powerful that she can keep four different debuffs up pretty much constantly, though.
 

Bryan

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Guys watch the diamond squigly variant video again.Look at what the SA is called and look at the combo hits.