• [2018/06/22]
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OFFICIAL - 5.1 Update Notes - Umbrella's Full Release!

Dusty00

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To preface, I truly appreciate all the work you guys put into this game. With everything going on at the moment, I respect your dedication to the community. A majority of these changes are features I've wanted for a while, and I'm genuinely excited for their implications on the game going forward. But this Daily change really feels like a swing and a miss.

I myself don't spend that much time with dailies anymore, besides the occasional Master here and there, but slashing canopy gain to this extent doesn't sit right with me. Even with 3 tickets a day, players will be forced to prioritize focusing on one character over another, or Holodeck over Character Dailies, which just doesn't feel good as a player. The Prize Fight rework worked out fine because you ultimately gained the same, or a very similar, set of rewards regardless of what tier you chose. Unless you were going out of your way for a specific key or variant or tier, you weren't missing out. With the more varied Daily structure, you have essentially 3-4 different sets of rewards at any given time: Holodeck and Character Dailies being the main two sets, with further division between the different featured characters. With the ticket system, you are missing out on something.

The rationale is also hard to wrap my head around. The update notes cite a "substantial amount of commitment" as, ostensibly, the central problem with the Daily system, which is only partly true (more on that in a bit). While grinding each difficulty to scrape as many resources as possible a day was miserable, the crux of the issue was unambiguously the mind-numbingly boring and repetitive Daily template. People weren't constantly asking for a Dailies rework simply because they were sinking too much time into it, but because Character Dailies are utterly unengaging and tedious. If you really wanted to, you could auto through Dailies at a reasonable pace without wasting that much time at all - the barrier was how one-note and unvaried the process was, and how the mere act of completing them felt like burning time.

Point is, I don't think this is addressing the right issue. As I understand it, the impetus behind the implementation of the Daily ticket system was to curb excessive grinding, (which is, if I remember correctly, the same philosophy that informed the Prize Fight rework) but this misses the mark. Punishing those who commit more time than deemed "healthy" is not the right approach. If someone wants to spend an entire day grinding for one move with specific stats, so be it. It should be up to players to set their own boundaries as to how much time they want to commit.

At the very least, if this update is final (Goddesses forbid) and was to continue as such regardless of any player feedback, its placement in the queue of upcoming QoL changes is, in my estimation, sorely miscalculated. From an economical standpoint, what this update ultimately does is level the canopy gain to a flat ceiling, cutting the amount of coinage available to the player at any given time. This might be fine if the rest of the economy shifted with it, but that isn't the case. For instance, a huge reason players would indeed pursue a "substantial amount of commitment" to SGM is the aggravating move system. I know y'all know this, but a maxed gold move costs more than an actual gold fighter. Moves as they were already had an insane price, and given the importance of stats and maxed move effects on select moves, (Drill Tempered, Upper Khat, Catastrophe Cannon Omega, Egret Call, Canopy Bounce) this really is a punch in the gut to anyone trying for character builds. In the current state of the game, this change only serves to hinder growth.

The playing field is now effectively leveled, which in theory is good, but with how hilariously slow progression looks to be compared to the old Daily system, resource and collection disparities don't close in, they just solidify as they are. There is little to no room for upward mobility concerning resources. It might not bother casual players, but for literally any rifter this is gutting.

This change feels like a half-hazard band-aid to a more underlying problem. Even with the advent of the ticket system, Daily grinding - replaying a node over and over to squeeze out extra skill points and moves - is still a viable strategy, and it won't stop with this update. Why? Because that's the only consistent source of moves. If you want a good build and don't want to wait upwards of months for a single perfect, well-rolled move, this is what you have to do. Especially with random rolls and the lack of move agency, people are forced into the grind. The Daily system wasn't the only factor contributing to distaste. It was the poor move system, and the fact that Dailies are the only reliable source of canopy and moves. The way I see it, this change is a unilateral fix to a multifaceted problem that does nothing but hurt players in the end.

On a side-tangent, this change personally feels questionable from a game design perspective. Skipping through Dailies is cool and all, but as mentioned before, this doesn't change the fact that the Daily system remains the main source of a variety of resources, which results in even minute changes having a disproportionate amount of influence (see the ticket debacle). I'll admit this is pure conjecture, but to me, Character Dailies don't seem like they were meant as an income source, at least primarily; I mean they feature characters for a reason. But they are, and they're not being treated with quite the care the main fuel of progression should receive. This whole situation feels like a microcosm of the Daily system as a whole. In my opinion, it's bloated and relied on for far too much than one system should, and limiting the entirety of it with tickets is the opposite direction we need to go. How exactly diversifying resource collection should go about I don't know; that's not necessarily my area of expertise. But this feels like doubling down on a flawed system, and it really doesn't do much for engaging gameplay. I digress.

Do I think this is a tacit move of corporate greed to move sales? No, I'm not that cynical. But I do think this is a huge misstep, and the game really seems to be drifting towards P2W.

At the end of the day, these are just my knee-jerk reactions to the update. I understand the perspective of waiting it out to see how things go. Hell, everything I said here could very well hold untrue in a month or two. The way I see it, though, even in concept, this approach doesn't feel like the best way to go about things - not for the game's future, and certainly not for overall user experience.
Excellent write up that really pinpoints the root cause and right on money that this specific solution does not adequately address a multi-faceted problem. I wrote similar comments in discord but not as organized in a single thread.

Experience with HVS over the years tells me they often have a long term plan but tend to release/execute in phases that don’t make sense to the players and end up with undesirable and unexpected outcomes. Example: Initial rift mode without catalysts.

Again, my theory is that in an upcoming update they will be closer in addressing more of the root of the problem, which you described well here with the whole Move system. They did say more to come with the move loadout and told us there will be improvements with the move stats situation in the 2022 roadmap.

I keep hoping @MightyZug will be making an appearance during a stream as he claimed and can officially share some developer insights like some other games do with their community. It is vital in assuring the player base that the game isn’t going down the P2W road with corporate greed. I continue to have faith in HVS that they won’t do it to SGM.
 

Randomizer

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I’d like to add some positivity to the thread. There’s been a lot of feedback already, so I just want to share my thoughts.
I personally really like the update. In fact, it might just be my favorite one in years. Move loadouts, Rift changes and revisited dailies are the features I’ve wanted the most over the past two years or so, and I couldn’t dream of seeing all of them in a single update.

First, because of how controversial the topic of dailies seems to be, I think the Rift changes and loadouts haven’t gotten the credit they really deserve considering how huge these changes are. To say that I’m really excited about both of them would be an understatement. One thing I think loadouts could really benefit from in the future is an opportunity to give each a dedicated name. My biggest wish for Rifts now is to see some of the less popular catalysts buffed/reworked.

Here are my impressions about dailies. After figuring out how the new system works, I honestly felt relieved more than anything else. It’s probably a hot take, but I don’t mind losing potential coins if it means having more time to actually play the game. I’ve always really disliked the amount of time and effort dailies required. Sure, they were an amazing source of coin income, but they required so much dedication that it was just hard to find enough time for both them and other game modes combined. Doing dailies felt like having a part-time job, and not doing them meant missing out on resources. Maybe it’s just my perfectionism messing with me, but the main reason I like the new system is because I no longer feel obliged to spend so much time on dailies and can focus on much more fun PFs and Rifts. One of the suggestions I’ve seen here is to make doing dailies manually free. I’d personally much rather see potential improvements be made within the framework of the new system. Reverting dailies back to how they used to be would once again mean that doing them manually is ‘optimal’ (as well as tedious and time-consuming).

I understand where all the concerns are coming from, but for me personally the changes are worth it. Of course, I’d totally be in favour of having access to more coins than the current update lets you get from dailies, but if such changes are made, I’d definitely be hoping that it is through more tickets or something along the lines. On a side note, I’m really glad that the daily number of tickets got adjusted to 3 as 2 felt a bit too restrictive.

However, there’s something I still don’t like about the update to dailies, and it is the fact that dailies and holodeck share the same pool of tickets. The way things are right now, it’s practically never worth it to spend tickets on holodeck. Sure, it is an amazing source of exp income, but here’s the thing: coins and moves are limited resources while exp is not. You can always get more exp through PFs and even replaying story mode, but the same thing can’t be said about coins and moves. That said, I’m a bit puzzled because I’m not sure if I can propose a good solution for this issue. Perhaps, if anything would be worth making more like it used to be, it’s the holodeck.

I’d like to thank the developers for listening to the player feedback and releasing such an amazing update (despite some changes being controversial). It is always really appreciated. I have faith that there’s more great stuff to look forward to!
 

Izarck

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Well these are my impressions about the daily events first of all the "tickets to skip" or "tickets to be able to play daily events" are obviously too few and this inevitably annoys the economy of the players.
In my experience I play the gold difficulty at 100% with that we can just skip the level, but if I also play the silver difficulty I have to repeat the same process I do not feel any improvement in the gaming experience only that now it has more steps as I see it is would be a great help if once the master difficulty of a character event is completed all the difficulties below it is possible to make skip without needing tickets only once for difficulty (just talking about daily character events)

now let's change the perspective of the tickets they give us "2 or 3 tickets" the most efficient way to use them is to repeat the same event an attractive function, then taking this premise that they are "tickets to repeat" an event I am happy to have 2 tickets a day to repeat a difficulty of a character event or holodeck, then the manual way of the events should not ask for a ticket (especially the daily character events)

something much easier to considerably increase the tickets and decrease the times that they can repeat an event taking into account this will only be -1 attempt or also that it has an appearance rate such as gifts or that they are rewards for the same gifts.
find another way to farm tickets
 
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MrNoggin

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Idk people are griping about clearing dailies with tickets and none of those people seem to be taking into account that before you could only clear that daily once. Now you can spam tickets for more rewards, and after an initial clear you don’t have to spend time clearing a character daily ever. The only time an issue about ticket expenditure comes up is if you didn’t do accursed experiments before a day with 3 characters you want cleared, or if the ticket giving rngs you for 2 instead of 3. Personally I think having 4 tickets flat per day would be much better, but I can see why they’re experimenting with gating it low at the start, especially considering that now if you can clear master holodeck you can spam tickets on that instead of trying to grind out expert and master every day. With XP boosters you’re getting a ton of XP. Just today I popped a 12hr booster and spent most of my tickets on clearing the holodeck a few times so I can squeeze levels out of some specific fighters. Watching those diamond XP bars get noticeable shifts was *spicy*

by this time next week I can start skipping character dailies to farm out moves and gold, and clear the master holodeck several more times than previously. (I don’t bother with accursed experiments because the odds of the diamond key are not worth getting more bronze keys, and now I can get more rewards from other stuff which is real nice)

we all gotta chill a bit when new stuff drops. Give it a week to really figure out how it impacts your daily routine. This is a great update
 

digdugprophetie

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The reduction in available coins means that realistically I will never be able to level up enough moves to effectively utilise the layout feature unless I spend money on canopy coins. It would have even been a decent move to increase the canopy coins given out in the subscription from 50k to 75k daily as a peace offering. 😞
 

ARZRct

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Idk people are griping about clearing dailies with tickets and none of those people seem to be taking into account that before you could only clear that daily once.
Yeah, once PER difficulty, and you could do every daily on every difficulty AND do Holodeck and AE with no penalty other than wasted time. Stop defending such a terrible change.

We demand 6 tickets a day, no less. Either that or DON'T TAKE A TICKET IF I DO DAILIES MANUALLY.

As I stated previously,"I wouldn't pay to do a chore, would you?". It's worse than paying to do a chore, it's paying AND losing XP to do a chore.

The removal of freedom is bound to have a negative reaction and they knew that, that's why they didn't mention it in the tweet.
 

strangegirl

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Fantastic update! Super exciting and I’m really looking forward to seeing it all in action.

Except the dailies. I have to say, this is one of the worst things that could have been done, if I’m being blunt. Resources are already incredibly hard to get and this just makes it even harder. We shouldn’t have to choose between XP or coins/moves. Either increase the number of tickets or let us play for free and use tickets to skip. But this is a really bad idea.
i’m not going to lie, i’d still prefer normal access to dailies with the addition of skips, but the extra tickets are a huge improvement! thank you guys! and otherwise, truly, really excellent update!
 

Barney

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Give it a week to really figure out how it impacts your daily routine.
I'd usually agree about giving changes a chance but I definitely don't need a week to see how much of a negative impact this has had on my daily routine. 😅

I have gone from doing 46 dailies a week + AE to doing 20 dailies a week + AE (used to clear character and Holodecks on Master and Expert). That's an enormous difference and has a big impact on character progression. It was originally going to be 13 a week + AE until the community complained.



We all appreciate the ability to skip and not have to endure the monotony of manually clearing dailies but making a limited number of tickets the only option to play dailies is crippling.
 

Ninjaneer

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Idk people are griping about clearing dailies with tickets and none of those people seem to be taking into account that before you could only clear that daily once. Now you can spam tickets for more rewards, and after an initial clear you don’t have to spend time clearing a character daily ever. The only time an issue about ticket expenditure comes up is if you didn’t do accursed experiments before a day with 3 characters you want cleared, or if the ticket giving rngs you for 2 instead of 3. Personally I think having 4 tickets flat per day would be much better, but I can see why they’re experimenting with gating it low at the start, especially considering that now if you can clear master holodeck you can spam tickets on that instead of trying to grind out expert and master every day. With XP boosters you’re getting a ton of XP. Just today I popped a 12hr booster and spent most of my tickets on clearing the holodeck a few times so I can squeeze levels out of some specific fighters. Watching those diamond XP bars get noticeable shifts was *spicy*

by this time next week I can start skipping character dailies to farm out moves and gold, and clear the master holodeck several more times than previously. (I don’t bother with accursed experiments because the odds of the diamond key are not worth getting more bronze keys, and now I can get more rewards from other stuff which is real nice)

we all gotta chill a bit when new stuff drops. Give it a week to really figure out how it impacts your daily routine. This is a great update
We can't really "spam" tickets as we only get three per day, and if you want to do AE for the chance at a diamond key, that's one ticket per week you have to "sacrifice". Then if you want to also do HH on Master, that's another ticket per day. Even if you ignore HH, you still are limited to three dailies per day.
 

Electrickery

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I hope you guys didn't actually think that HVS was going to give us the option to skip dailies and still give us the huge amount of coins that we get if we were to play all of the dailies. You guys were crying about the same thing for diamond PFS when they made it you could only do one at a time. I think this is the healthiest choice they could have done for the players, letting us grind a certain daily multiple times a day but limiting the amount of dailies you can skip.
 

Holy Goose

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We all appreciate the ability to skip and not have to endure the monotony of manually clearing dailies but making a limited number of tickets the only option to play dailies is crippling.
Oh yes.
Look at all those amazing dailies we have no chance to complete.
And it will become worse, ones Dahlia and the fourth character will arrive.

Personally, I'm fine with the tickets to skip or replay dailies. It makes sense.
But for the manual play, after so much time... Kind of hurts.
 

evilgordo

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I hope you guys didn't actually think that HVS was going to give us the option to skip dailies and still give us the huge amount of coins that we get if we were to play all of the dailies. You guys were crying about the same thing for diamond PFS when they made it you could only do one at a time. I think this is the healthiest choice they could have done for the players, letting us grind a certain daily multiple times a day but limiting the amount of dailies you can skip.
Sure, I can see that there's no 'Free lunch' as they say. Skipping the grinding of a Daily should have 'strings' attached but don't use that same string to tie players' hands behind our backs. And why did poor AE have to be pulled in to this, that's technically a 'weekly' event...

Let's not open old wounds with the Lockout of PFs since Diamond tier was introduced...
 

RandomGuy

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The reduction in available coins means that realistically I will never be able to level up enough moves to effectively utilise the layout feature unless I spend money on canopy coins. It would have even been a decent move to increase the canopy coins given out in the subscription from 50k to 75k daily as a peace offering. 😞
Nah. I despise that because that's just greed.

I have the subscription. So, I would benefit, but there is no way they could claim this is anything but a way force players to buy coins if they did this (and it's hard to believe that's not the reasoning as is).
 
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Freedom

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I don't want to talk about dailies, there is literally 6 sections of players talking about this 😂

What I will say is that the rest of the update has been nice. Load outs r so smooth, they don't feel clunky either, especially in pfs u can just equip your load out as effortlessly as u would do with your fighters.

Rifts hav be changed, like the whole landscape has changed. More opportunities in different fighter choices and defenses. It will force us to actually think how our defense will react when it's attacked, it requires clever thinking. No more mindless splitting and model nodes, as well as no more xbots and silent kills melting everything in sight. It gives us the push players need to actually be competitive in this game mode. I'm not gonna talk about ranks, I'm pretty inexperienced at the higher echelons of this mode, I'll leave that for other players to talk about ranking and whatnot. *And no I don't feel sympathy for the ppl who hav built 3 immoral fibres or more. 🤭

Umbrella pf was fun (I'm speaking for gold pf), as for umbrella I like her gameplay but like others, I'm very sceptical about the variants, not all. Most variants just do more or less the same as what other fighters do. I just feel like yes umbrellas variants r there, but there r better options.... basically they don't feel like I need them for this mode, specific situation or anything cuz others can do it better u know.

All in all it's a good update, I'm really surprised by the additions and how flawless some of them r (namely load outs). Obviously there is the controversial daily update (like I said the guyz above me will explain their issues in better detail). I don't want to discourage u guyz to not work in the game, in fact the updates hav been starting to actually mean something these days, good job. I see that u devs really care about the game and want to make it better.

Wish u guyz the best for EVO and excited for character reveal! 🤩

Thx SGM team
 

Blessed Mage

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Real fun ''improvements''. Take away the opportunity to receive resources and enter a button to delete an account, as if hinting. I`m just waiting for the next update with tickets for PF and story.
 

ZeoW

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Here's something nobody have talked about before. People are raging because the amount of Coins have been significantly reduced. They could release new content in the future to solve this while keeping everything else the same (I do think daily events just need slight tweaks). I find it odd that Medici and Moves PF have not had any significant updates for years. I think it's time to take a look at those PFs and adjust their rewards and economy.

Some ideas from the top of my head:

Remove Event Rewards for Medici PF and have huge Milestone Rewards instead. This removes ambiguity with rewards, similar to how current character PF works. Milestone Rewards will provide significant Canopy Coins for every 10M up to 100M. Grinders can grind all the way up to 100M in a day or two if they want. Everyone else can just do as much as they have time for.

Remove Silver fighter restriction for Move PF and open it to all fighters. Gain Gold moves/blockbusters for every 10-streak. The character move you get depends on the fighters you use in a fight. If you use three Parasouls, you'll have a 100% chance to get a Parasoul move/blockbuster. If you use two Parasouls and 1 Robo Fortune, you'll have a 66% chance to get a Parasoul move/blockbuster and 33% chance to get a Robo Fortune move/blockbuster.
 

Diony

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Do we have any answer about they making pf's harder on 5.0.2?
1
Did 5.0.2.2 also come with a Prize Fight rebalance?

Trying to get to 10 million in Gold and it is brutal. Once you get to a 20 streak, all three opponent choices are all 80k FS. I'd say more but I lost at 23. Anyone else experiencing sharp inclines in difficulty in the PF streaks?
5.0.2.2 patch = The Secret Streak Stomper patch

It happens in all prize fights; character, elemental, medici, monthly holiday, etc. Instead of a slow rise in enemy FS, there is a steeper difficulty ramp.

Streak 18 - enemy FS 50k
Streak 24 - enemy FS 80k
Streak 33 - enemy FS 100k

And a lack of variety. Instead of a high, medium, or low, it is all one uniform level of FS to choose.

This makes for interesting, tough battles, but it slows the climb. Your momentum is easily derailed and past 20, you go into every fight like it could be your last (strategy change: forget leveling the weak, this is about survival, bring at least 2 carries).

It wouldn't be too bad if streak restarts were so dreadfully dull. Slogging through 1-10 without a lucky multiplier (5x plz!) is a sleepwalk and then a dozen fights later it is a nightmare. Seems a little severe.

I dunno, the scoring thresholds don't look too different (except for the maniac that got a BILLION in the Double diamond PF!).
1

about daily events... i think you should only charge tickets if the player wants to skip... the lack of tickets shouldn't stop you from participating in the events... they should work as a resource for when you don't have much time to play, not to limit your matches... and these tickets can be won on deployment, gifts and with egret points.
I Second This
Would everyone be happier with tickets only for skips?
Yes
 
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