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Pointlessly Overpowered Abilities Take the Fun Out of This Game

Ryan Harrison

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If anyone is having trouble with a specific character, event modifier, etc. you should join the SGM discord chat!
The chat is very active and there's lots of players there willing to offer a helping hand when it comes to learning more about the game mechanics or how to deal with more challenging situations.
Should I get the app? I've never used discord before.
 

Ryan Harrison

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Prmth456

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Nice! don't forget to get yourself a role on the role-assignment chat so you can post images on the chat!
 

meta

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The game's mechanics really needs to be reworked. For example, Big Band that has the ability to gain armor and possible 5% stun on attacking opponent. Out of 10 times I attacked that Big Band my character got stunned 9 times and 10/10 Big Band got a 5 seconds armor.
Fine, I upgrade that Big Band card to the max and went to use it. Out of 10 times I got hit, only one time was the opponent card got stunned and not once did my card gain armor.
I understand how percentages work, but there is a clear advantage the CPU has. If the CPU has higher percentages for these special skills to be activated, by all means, disclose it and say "CPU has a higher chance by this much for their skill to be activated".
Big Band isn't the only one either. The unflinching for Peacock. Almost always the CPU card gets unflinching. My card? Maybe 5% of time. I'm not making things up. I have recorded fights of these ridiculous things happening.
 

Cellsai

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I understand how percentages work
Pretty sure the percentages are working correctly and not stacked towards the CPU players. Without a really massive sample size it's very easy to get the perception that the stats are being faked and feel that the CPU has an advantage. You'll always remember the times you get killed mid combo more than the times you do your successful dial-a-combos.
 

moisterrific

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Resonant Evil is well designed in the sense that the second part of his signature ability relies on the activation of armor from the first part. But it's poorly designed in terms of actual use cases: he is one of the most obnoxious fighters to play against because of how tanky he is (you'll get timed out if you lack sufficient DPS). While also being one of the least reliable fighters to use on attack (you'll get timed out because he doesn't do enough DPS).
 
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BrolaireOfAsstora

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Resonant Evil is well designed in the sense that the second part of his signature ability relies on the activation of armor from the first part. But it's poorly designed in terms of actual use cases: he is one of the most obnoxious fighters to play against because of how tanky he is (you'll get timed out if you lack sufficient DPS). While also being one of the least reliable fighters to use on attack (you'll get timed out because he doesn't do enough DPS).
Does running special moves with atk% help this, or should I just use epic sax instead?
 

moisterrific

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Does running special moves with atk% help this, or should I just use epic sax instead?

The short answer: yes, just use Epic Sax.

The long answer: let's say you have a maxed gold Resonant Evil, he has an ATK of approx. 3000. A maxed Epic Sax will have an ATK of approx. 4700. With the same +50% total ATK from moves, Epic Sax will deal significantly more than Resonant Evil (and that's not adding his +50% damage boost from SA yet). Even Resonant Evil with +50% ATK can't catch up in DPS compared to an Epic Sax with +0%. And since DPS is the only thing that matters on offence, it's best to play the fighter that has the higher DPS.
 

BrolaireOfAsstora

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The short answer: yes, just use Epic Sax.

The long answer: let's say you have a maxed gold Resonant Evil, he has an ATK of approx. 3000. A maxed Epic Sax will have an ATK of approx. 4700. With the same +50% total ATK from moves, Epic Sax will deal significantly more than Resonant Evil (and that's not adding his +50% damage boost from SA yet). Even Resonant Evil with +50% ATK can't catch up in DPS compared to an Epic Sax with +0%. And since DPS is the only thing that matters on offence, it's best to play the fighter that has the higher DPS.
Got it. Is there a move or buff that breaks armor? Grabs are really the only thing I find that gets around untouchable and AF, but ResEvs are still annoying for bb, and my Harlequin is a bigger piece of trash than I am.
 

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Got it. Is there a move or buff that breaks armor? Grabs are really the only thing I find that gets around untouchable and AF, but ResEvs are still annoying for bb, and my Harlequin is a bigger piece of trash than I am.

I think every fighter has a move or two where it inflicts armor break. Armor break will always remove armor.
 

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You forgot Armed forces. The ones i met are all: stack 2 shields and have 100% defense.
After reading through this post i feel i need to make somthing clear. Im not saying armed forces is too hard or impossible and i hate fight her. i was just whining... ;_; cus i saw a chance and took it. and also i just broke my 20+streak in gold pz because i wasnt looking and choose to fight a team with armed forces by mistake.
 

missingno

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Just because stronger opponents have a higher chance of destroying you, it doesn't mean they will everytime. Nothing there is set in stone. Sometimes you will win, sometimes you will lose and that will be up to strength as much as it will be for luck and skill.

Or are you telling me you can never get past 6 streaks because of overall FS difference? Or that you never outplayed the AI or just simply got luck with a stronger opponent?
I've lost count of how many times I've explained this by now. After a certain point, yes, matches can and do become literally unwinnable. If they can OHKO you with BB3 and build it three times before you can kill them, there's truly nothing you can do about that.

If you spent your time grinding
Nope. I'm not interested in spending hundreds of hours making a number go up in the hopes that the game might eventually become fun after enough grinding. I have better things to do with my time.

And even if the problem does go away after hundreds of hours, is that really an excuse to leave the early game in such a bad state?
 
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Ryouhi

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There's your problem. It really feels like a lot of your complaints are coming from you failing to understand or refusing to accept that this game has a lot of RPG elements. You have a leveling system. You have moves with randomized stats that you need to upgrade. You have fighters with unique character and signature abilities. You have resources you need to manage to upgrade those fighters' skill trees and moves. This game is probably 50% RPG and 50% fighting game. The only thing fighting game about it is the combat system, which thanks to the limitations of being on mobile devices, can't have all the controls and mechanics that you want it to have. So it's not even the type of fighting game that you want it to be.

SGM might be using the cast of your beloved skullgirls, but it's not the same game. If you keep insisting that the game should be a 1 to 1 likeness to the original Skullgirls, of course you're going to be disappointed.



The early game is not in a bad state. It can be frustrating, sure. The early stages of lots of RPGs tend to be frustrating. If you actually played the game as much as you complained about it, you'd have maxed out fighters like the rest of us and wouldn't be having a lot of these issues that you constantly harp on about.

The thing is, from what i can tell, is that he's right though - in that the game's becomes much more balanced only after you reach the "End game".
And in my opinion it's not a well balanced game when early and mid game are much higher risk and much harder than end game.

And that's because when you start out and even once you get strong teams, once you reach a high streak in PFs, you are suddenly fighting enemies that are 2x to 2.5x your teams total FS. This means if you can't kill an enemy fighter before they charge their BB3, your fighter is dead in most cases. And considering your enemies have so much higher HP as well due to their level advantage (as well as many people stacking 50% Defense and HP), it's often not possible killing Fighters before they charge their BB3. So say goodbye to your fighter.

Now i've grinding my team high enough to see the top players and the bots and suddenly the game's difficulty drops off a cliff.
Suddenly with your maxed team your only enemy teams to choose from are the same FS as yours or actually EVEN LOWER than yours in the case of the bots.

Suddenly you can survive BB3s and getting hit by a combo doesn't mean instant death.

I don't have maxed fighters yet, but i'm getting closer, so take my observations with a pinch of salt, but from what i can tell difficulty seems to drop off hard once your get your teams close to maxed out.
Personally i think that makes for a bad difficulty curve and bad balance and it's the reason why i personally am very annoyed with BB3s in high streak PFs, especially since they don't seem to be a problem for top players since they do not have to fight massively scaled enemies to fight against.
 
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The thing is, from what i can tell, is that he's right though - in that the game's becomes much more balanced only after you reach the "End game".
And in my opinion it's not a well balanced game when early and mid game are much higher risk and much harder than end game.

And that's because when you start out and even once you get strong teams, once you reach a high streak in PFs, you are suddenly fighting enemies that are 2x to 2.5x your teams total FS. This means if you can't kill an enemy fighter before they charge their BB3, your fighter is dead in most cases. And considering your enemies have so much higher HP as well due to their level advantage (as well as many people stacking 50% Defense and HP), it's often not possible killing Fighters before they charge their BB3. So say goodbye to your fighter.

Now i've grinding my team high enough to see the top players and the bots and suddenly the game's difficulty drops off a cliff.
Suddenly with your maxed team your only enemy teams to choose from are the same FS as yours or actually EVEN LOWER than yours in the case of the bots.

Suddenly you can survive BB3s and getting hit by a combo doesn't mean instant death.

I don't have maxed fighters yet, but i'm getting closer, so take my observations with a pinch of salt, but from what i can tell difficulty seems to drop off hard once your get your teams close to maxed out.
Personally i think that makes for a bad difficulty curve and bad balance and it's the reason why i personally am very annoyed with BB3s in

The reason we fight stronger teams the higher our streak is, it to give us a challenge. It would be very boring to keep fighting the same level youre on every time. And from reading a few of these post I didnt know a lot of people wanted an easy game to play.
 
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A Bad Time

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I don't think anyone has a problem with fighting harder teams the higher your streak, just the difficulty spike that occurs.

I can see where people have problems once you've hit a 5x multiplier and now you're fighting teams that are so tanky that you can't beat them down before they chunk a big slap of damage in your face.

I can't really vouch for a solution but maybe instead of losing your entire streak on loss, it instead cut In half (rounded down for certain streaks) so you go back to fighting decently hard teams but don't lose the streak your worked so hard for.

I played much earlier and reached mid-end game so far and don't have too much trouble in gold prize fights so I don't have the perspective some of you do.
 

missingno

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There's your problem. It really feels like a lot of your complaints are coming from you failing to understand or refusing to accept that this game has a lot of RPG elements.
There's a difference between a game of skill that also has RPG elements versus a game where grinding is the only thing that matters, to the point where it keeps giving you unwinnable matches. I like RPGs when done correctly, hell ArcSys's single-player modes have always been a guilty pleasure of mine and of course I'm really looking forward to Indivisible.

Really all I think needs to be done here is to remove invincible fullscreen unblockables and significantly rework how Prize Fights are structured and this problem could be mostly solved. You can still have RPG elements, it's really only those two things that break it.

Of course the other difference between all the RPGs I do like and SGM is F2P. At a certain point I just can't help but wonder how much of this stuff is done on purpose as a way to ensure the player keeps hitting a wall.

If you keep insisting that the game should be a 1 to 1 likeness to the original Skullgirls, of course you're going to be disappointed.
I have never said this. Please do not put words in my mouth.

If you actually played the game as much as you complained about it, you'd have maxed out fighters like the rest of us and wouldn't be having a lot of these issues that you constantly harp on about.
Believe me, I already sunk far more time into this before giving up than I care to admit. But again, that's not the point, this problem shouldn't exist at any level.
 

Ryouhi

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I'll admit that as an end game player, my perspective of the early/mid game isn't so accurate anymore, especially since I reached the end game before opponent stats were implemented in PFs. However, the way I see it, the game forces you to fight these teams 2-2.5x your team's FS at high streaks because it's trying to stop you from having long streaks, and I think that's fine.

Back when stats weren't implemented, it was balanced. I'll concede that maybe the opponent team scaling could use some tweaking to accommodate the increased difficulty now that opponents all have their bonus stats. The issue with this is that lowering the potential FS difference from high streaks would decrease the maximum potential longshot bonus you can gain from PF matches, and would decrease overall XP gains, which I'm not a fan of.

Most top players don't play full teams and run 1-2 xp sponges in place of competent fighters so that we can get a bit of xp onto our dupes in our collections. The difficulty never truly goes away, even for top players, unless you're willing to completely abandon leveling up all the other fighters in your collection.

Perhaps enemies should be scaled up accordingly for PFs even if their team already is maxed out, so end game players still feel the impact of fighting enemies at 2x their own strength.

Though i suppose that isn't truly the problem with PFs.
I can definitely dig the difficulty enemy scaling gives in PFs, but in the end the problem always seems to come down to BB3s.
At high streaks lot's of abilities can be dangerous, if the enemy is able to throw you, use command grabs or Blockbusters that can break guard.
But all of these usually have some way to defend against them.

If i lose due to missing a block or getting thrown by an enemy and i lose my streak? Sucks but that's totally on me and i should work on getting better so that doesn't happen.

But with BB3s it can be a literal roadblock, where you can perfectly block and punish each attack of your enemy, only for them to charge up their BB3 before you can kill them and it's game over.
There's not much to do in terms of gitting gud, it's a literal road block until scaling stops being a problem once you reach endgame and fighter stats are normalized, so BB3s are actually survivable. For MOST players (aka everyone not maxxed out) BB3s are simply a huge hurdle by design, which they don't seem to be to End game players.

And that's where all the complaining about PFs is coming from (i think anyway), simply because at some point you simply cannot win at high streaks.

I agree players probably shouldn't be able to keep up streaks indefinitely so easily, i think the devs said as much, that that is by design.
However personally i'd rather get outplayed by the AI in some way than just getting a Game Over due to stats.


What would you say if fighters of maxed out teams would be scaled up to the 2x FS other players have to deal with?
I wonder if top players would feel that to be balanced.

(sorry if this reply sounds kinda passive-aggressive - not my intention!)