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Characters Surgeon General Valentine too good?

TonyPartridge30

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When I first learned about Surgeon General Valentine, I thought it sounded like an interesting character. But I've fought a high level version of it now a couple times and noticed something about it's Signature Ability that I didn't expect: she gains permanent enrage every 30 seconds even when tagged out. This shocked me, as aside from regenerating scratch health and getting a little bit of meter gain, I didn't think anything could happen to reserve fighters. Like, every permanent buff on a fighter essentially pauses while they're in reserve.

But more than that, I feel that having permanent enrage apply on her even in reserve removes any sort of tactical decision making associated with the fighter. I thought the idea behind her would be that you could choose to keep her in reserve for as long as possible as a support for characters who are tagged in, or alternatively you could use her to actively fight so that she would get stronger over time. The way her SA works now, you get the best of both worlds; just keep her in reserve until she's the last fighter and boom, you've got a character with probably 2 free stacks of enrage by the time she comes out, in addition to the buffs she applied on her teammates while she was in reserve.

Personally, I think that she should only get a permanent stack of enrage every 30 seconds while she's the active fighter. Like, keep her ability associated with the game timer; that's fine. But depending on whether she's tagged in or out should determine which of her SAs proc. Just my opinion.
 
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Graveyard Heart

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When I first learned about Surgeon General Valentine, I thought it sounded like an interesting character. But I've fought a high level version of it now a couple times and noticed something about it's Signature Ability that I didn't expect: she gains permanent enrage every 30 seconds even when tagged out. This shocked me, as aside from regenerating scratch health and getting a little bit of meter gain, I didn't think anything could happen to reserve fighters. Like, every permanent buff on a fighter essentially pauses while they're in reserve.

But more than that, I feel that having permanent enrage apply on her even in reserve removes any sort of tactical decision making associated with the fighter. I thought the idea behind her would be that you could choose to keep her in reserve for as long as possible as a support for characters who are tagged in, or alternatively you could use her to actively fight so that she would get stronger over time. The way her SA works now, you get the best of both worlds; just keep her in reserve until she's the last fighter and boom, you've got a character with probably 2 free stacks of enrage by the time she comes out, in addition to the buffs she applied on her teammates while she was in reserve.

Personally, I think that she should only get a permanent stack of enrage every 30 seconds while she's the active fighter. Like, keep her ability associated with the game timer; that's fine. But depending on whether she's tagged in or out should determine which of her SAs proc. Just my opinion.
Personally, being a valentine addict, i can completely agree. But there is one problem with valentine. She is predictable and can easily be countered. But also, her stats aren't exactly the most admirable. She is one, if not, the only character to have low stats. For example, if you put out SK valentine as a front line fighter, she can easily die if she gets punished. So giving her permanent enrage can even out the battle. Especially high health fighters. And even if she still have permanent enrage, if the opponent were to block her attacks, they can barely take the said damage by enrage. They made surgeon general balanced by not adding her the two effects by her SAs. Meaning she would deal heavy damage but still has low heath. Personally, she's one of the useful valentines out there. But this is my opinion. I just based it on how i play with her as a fighter.
 
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moisterrific

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Surgeon General isn’t good enough, she should get buffed where her healing and immune can apply to herself as well when she’s the active fighter.
 
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Checkmate

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I've encountered a team of two Surgeon Generals and a Last hope. It was a weird battle. Heavy regeneration doesn't stack, but if you elongate the battle just enough- forbidden procedure will-- will be something you despise.
 

Graveyard Heart

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I've encountered a team of two Surgeon Generals and a Last hope. It was a weird battle. Heavy regeneration doesn't stack, but if you elongate the battle just enough- forbidden procedure will-- will be something you despise.
Yeah it really is. That being said, I think Valentine is more of a support character more than a damage dealer, survival, etc.
 
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Animus66

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Wish enraged was 5x for 30 secs then a cool down but she's a sweet fighter in the ring... Life saver at times too
When I first learned about Surgeon General Valentine, I thought it sounded like an interesting character. But I've fought a high level version of it now a couple times and noticed something about it's Signature Ability that I didn't expect: she gains permanent enrage every 30 seconds even when tagged out. This shocked me, as aside from regenerating scratch health and getting a little bit of meter gain, I didn't think anything could happen to reserve fighters. Like, every permanent buff on a fighter essentially pauses while they're in reserve.

But more than that, I feel that having permanent enrage apply on her even in reserve removes any sort of tactical decision making associated with the fighter. I thought the idea behind her would be that you could choose to keep her in reserve for as long as possible as a support for characters who are tagged in, or alternatively you could use her to actively fight so that she would get stronger over time. The way her SA works now, you get the best of both worlds; just keep her in reserve until she's the last fighter and boom, you've got a character with probably 2 free stacks of enrage by the time she comes out, in addition to the buffs she applied on her teammates while she was in reserve.

Personally, I think that she should only get a permanent stack of enrage every 30 seconds while she's the active fighter. Like, keep her ability associated with the game timer; that's fine. But depending on whether she's tagged in or out should determine which of her SAs proc. Just my opinion.
 

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Considering how weak Valentine naturally is, I’m entirely fine with a single Valentine being able to become a strong attacker. I think the best trade off would be having the lowest health of all Valentine’s.
 

TonyPartridge30

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Surgeon General isn’t good enough, she should get buffed where her healing and immune can apply to herself as well when she’s the active fighter.
This sounds like a terrible idea that would make her entirely unbalanced, even OP. This would just promote turtle culture even more: “oh, give Surgeon General max defense and lots of bonus HP so she can survive long enough to become unbeatable in the remaining amount of time”.
Considering how weak Valentine naturally is, I’m entirely fine with a single Valentine being able to become a strong attacker. I think the best trade off would be having the lowest health of all Valentine’s.
I’m not saying that this Valentine shouldn’t be able to become a strong attacker. I’m just saying that I think it would be more balanced for the player to have to choose whether to have her in reserve to support more or to bring her out to the front lines to buff up, instead of letting her buff up in reserve.
 

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Honestly I agree with most of the points here, but I also feel like Surgeon General doesn't know what she wants to do?? Like, in terms of being the best of both worlds to get her SA working, I feel like she should either only have her SA triggering for herself ONLY (And therefore make changes to make her a better "survival" character) or simply keep the SA only towards teammates while she's in reserve so she's just main support.

If anything in the long run of fights her SA basically does take out strategic methods once you racked up enough enrage / regen but at the same time I feel like if that's the true goal than she should solely focus on that and that alone. If not, perhaps some better tweaking is needed to determine if she's meant to be a glass cannon medic or simply just a stat-stick for lack of better words in terms of her SA because as pointed out, making her buffed would only ask for turtling to become the mainstream to win rather than "I have an optimal team that I put a lot of work into".
 
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TonyPartridge30

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making her buffed would only ask for turtling to become the mainstream to win rather than "I have an optimal team that I put a lot of work into".
I’m more concerned with turtling (or other metas) making it virtually impossible to use teams I consider “fun to play”, or even just new combinations I’ve not tried before.
 
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fanghoul

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As someone that has and uses a lv 50 Surgeon General, I would be hard pressed to call her too good. Yes, her SA is good on paper, but it's not untypical for her to come hopping out when someone else is downed, and be dead before she's even hit the ground thanks to a combo of Cerebelle powers :oops:
 

Fel

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I’m more concerned with turtling (or other metas) making it virtually impossible to use teams I consider “fun to play”, or even just new combinations I’ve not tried before.
PvP matches are a long way away in the future so theres no need to worry about a turtling meta. AI will always be aggressive and you have two options, block and punish or kite and punish.

You can use ANY team you want and win as long as you invest enough into them. I think Surgeon General is supposed to grant buffs to your frontline and come out as a last resort with a bunch of enrage stacks. Immunity and regen isnt too big of a deal as armor would be for 50% defense fighters and enrage isnt a big deal if you play correctly and block.
 
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Animus66

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As someone that has and uses a lv 50 Surgeon General, I would be hard pressed to call her too good. Yes, her SA is good on paper, but it's not untypical for her to come hopping out when someone else is downed, and be dead before she's even hit the ground thanks to a combo of Cerebelle powers :oops:
PvP matches are a long way away in the future so theres no need to worry about a turtling meta. AI will always be aggressive and you have two options, block and punish or kite and punish.

You can use ANY team you want and win as long as you invest enough into them. I think Surgeon General is supposed to grant buffs to your frontline and come out as a last resort with a bunch of enrage stacks. Immunity and regen isnt too big of a deal as armor would be for 50% defense fighters and enrage isnt a big deal if you play correctly and block.
Good with strategy useless with blockbusters :(
 

WAH

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You guys think she needs a up in attack?
I think overall the Valentine line needs another look at in buffing stats by 10-20% and change in better ability instead of no heal of red damage when enemies switch out. Games too fast and short to really make the ability useful.
 

fanghoul

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For me, I'd like a little more life for her.

I actually have no problem with the character ability, I find it useful for those annoying instances where someone needs exactly one more hit (even one blocked hit) to go down and tags out. Much better to have them come back at that same amount of life than needing a full combo to finish them off now, especially if they tag back in with a full BB3.
 

WAH

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For me, I'd like a little more life for her.

I actually have no problem with the character ability, I find it useful for those annoying instances where someone needs exactly one more hit (even one blocked hit) to go down and tags out. Much better to have them come back at that same amount of life than needing a full combo to finish them off now, especially if they tag back in with a full BB3.

Eh, since I have Surgeon General I use her as what she was built for, which is an anchor. So by the time she ever does come out, it's already last hero. That makes the no recover damage pretty useless.