Characters Octoplasm - Resolving issues with her 2.0 version

[SvenZ]

Octoplasm her received a rework. Her utility is radically different from her old version, but she also suffers from her own set of problems. https://hub.skullgirlsmobile.com/ne...f-revolution-family-tides-july-backstage-pass

Problems:
1 - Still limited only to Water fighters
2 - SA triggers only when tagging away or to Marie, limiting a lot of combos
3 - Her SA1 is yet again a copy of another fighter (Icy Hot)
4 - SA2 has too many buffs, with one of them being a non-stacking one.
5 - Her new design has some merit, but falls immediately flat in Parallel Realms due to the Bleed
6 - Water fighters are mostly defenders, and her SAs are more offense oriented, making their trigger requirement Incredibly unpredictable on defense.

Benefits:
1 - Potentially stronger alternative to Icy Hot for Water fighters.
2 - Slime application is very good on PRs
3 - Allows allies to apply QUEITUS

Old SA 1 (from her remake)
- When TAGGING to or from Marie, WATER teammates gain 2 stacks of REGEN for 15 seconds and 10/12/15% BLOCKBUSTER METER.

New SA 1
- 50/75/100% chance to extend all opponent DEBUFFS when they bounce off a wall, or all teammate BUFFS when they bounce off a wall by 2 seconds

Old SA 2 (from her remake)
- While Marie is alive, WATER teammates’ hits have a 15/20/25% chance to inflict BLEED, SLIME, or QUIETUS for 15 seconds each while benefiting from REGEN.

New SA 2
- While Marie is alive, TAG-INS inflict QUEITUS for 10/12/15 seconds. Teammates' hits have a 15/20/25% chance to grant REGEN or inflict SLIME for 15 seconds each while the opponent is suffering from QUEITUS.

This change is a combination of her old and new version, as there is merit to both.
1 - SA1 and SA2 benefit all fighters, not just Water.
2 - SA1's buff/debuff extend may seem short (2 seconds), but certain character can perform a lot of wall bounces very fast, making those either the preferred option on offense or the exact opposite when facing Octo.
3 - SA1 triggers regardless of who's the active fighter. So even without tag-ins, allies can benefit from the effect.
4 - Marie has a lot of bounce combos herself, making her a good extender, if an ally applies a nasty debuff.
5 - SA2 now reliably applies QUEITUS
6 - SA2 now provides more consistent and powerful sustain via the Regen gain
7 - Bleed is removed, as to make her more viable for Parallel Realms
8 - There are only 2 Modifiers that can trigger from SA2, making it more consistent. Slime is very powerful in Parallel Realms

 

[Kheul]

I think the new Octo is great. But lemme see what might be the problem...

My takes on "Problems"

1- It is fine, in most other games elements are way more crucial and limiting when building up teams against opponent comps. In Skullgirls it is almost negligible what your element is. Water units aren't typically offensive, so a support that makes up for that void is really good. Her WATER niche remains, they doubled down on it and made it so much better imo.

2- When you consider the amount of things you are getting just by tagging from her, it makes sense that it is a bit limiting.

3- I wouldn't say "copy" but it is quite similar. They just both happened to have "Healing on tag-in" ability.

4- Yep that's a lotta debuffs, but the combination is really strong. They should just work on how things are activated via supports. Because not every character has the same hit-count. Some characters are really easy to work with but some just don't have the reliable hit-count for it. I think this is just a fundamental problem due to not having "proc coefficient" integrated into the game.

5- They should just adjust bleed specifically for PR tbh. Like make it deal way less damage or limit the stacks, it should be really simple via modifiers. Current solution to bleed in PR is such a lazy approach.

6- I don't see she being a good defender anyways.

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My take on your rework:

Damn... That is one hell of a support, way too good. SA1 sounds really weak, but that SA2 just fixes all the healing problem you will ever have to the point that I don't think it is healthy to have such an overloaded and easy to use kit.
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2 - SA1's buff/debuff extend may seem short (2 seconds), but certain character can perform a lot of wall bounces very fast, making those either the preferred option on offense or the exact opposite when facing Octo.

Isn't one of the problems you mentioned that she only works with Water element fighters? Isn't she favoring certain characters significantly more is pretty much the same approach?

 

[SvenZ]

Isn't one of the problems you mentioned that she only works with Water element fighters? Isn't she favoring certain characters significantly more is pretty much the same approach?

Every character can apply a wall bounce however, and buffs/debuffs are not just variant unique, as there are modifiers from either prize fights, realms or catalysts from rifts. It favors certain combos more, and not explicitly only one elemental type

New Octo is better in some ways and worse in others. She is now entirely beneficial to just Water fighters, while previously her SA1 was useful in different team compositions.


On the SA2 Regen comment, yes it may be a bit too good. I'll consider changes or value adjustments to it. Your prerequisite is still Quietus, which isn't widely available, outside of Marie

 

[Kheul]

Every character can apply a wall bounce

Yeah but realistically speaking what percentage of the characters do you use by constantly wall bouncing the opponent. Maybe it is me who doesn't wall-bounce opponents much, dunno. That said it is cool that it opens up a certain playstyle but there should be only a few that can properly utilize this. Beo corner chair spam and Umb comes to my mind.

 

[SvenZ]

Yeah but realistically speaking what percentage of the characters do you use by constantly wall bouncing the opponent. Maybe it is me who doesn't wall-bounce opponents much, dunno. That said it is cool that it opens up a certain playstyle but there should be only a few that can properly utilize this. Beo corner chair spam and Umb comes to my mind.

Dark Dahlias and Marie also have a lot of easy bounce options. A lot of Bella combos utilize wall bounce as well.

 

[Stone]

her current biggest issue is that her ability does not work with projectiles at all(!). Other than that, the potential utility she provides seems to be a bit understated in this thread tbh.

6 - Water fighters are mostly defenders, and her SAs are more offense oriented, making their trigger requirement Incredibly unpredictable on defense.

Numeral of water attackers are pretty niche and have a lack of dps in common, lets take in denile for example. amazing ability on an amazing char, but no attack stat. octo makes that a non issue entirely, while also providing front runners a very easy way to inflict quietus, quite a handy debuff (without needing to build around; accuracy should be from octo herself), many slime and bleed stacks.

while bleed is less useful in realms, theres still many ways around this; but realms isnt the only gamemode there is. bleed in prizefights goes a long way, and even in rift the quick applications of bleed, slime and quietus gives her use with other water offensive rifters like wave warrior and silent kill!

 

[Kheul]

her current biggest issue is that her ability does not work with projectiles at all(!).

Recent units have this thing going, it is the same with Mad Malice as well. It gotta be an oversight or else they would have specified the hit type like how it is written on Heavy Metal's SA.

 

[SvenZ]

her current biggest issue is that her ability does not work with projectiles at all(!). Other than that, the potential utility she provides seems to be a bit understated in this thread tbh.

Numeral of water attackers are pretty niche and have a lack of dps in common, lets take in denile for example. amazing ability on an amazing char, but no attack stat. octo makes that a non issue entirely, while also providing front runners a very easy way to inflict quietus, quite a handy debuff (without needing to build around; accuracy should be from octo herself), many slime and bleed stacks.

while bleed is less useful in realms, theres still many ways around this; but realms isnt the only gamemode there is. bleed in prizefights goes a long way, and even in rift the quick applications of bleed, slime and quietus gives her use with other water offensive rifters like wave warrior and silent kill!

Again though, it's limited to water fighters only. That's fine if she provided a niche where they're at their strongest (defense), but that's not really the case. Her utility is primary on offense, and how many of those are worth taking on offense? There are a handful, but that's about it. Her remake seems like an intentional compliment to the new Umbrella

If anything, the requirement to tag away from her should be removed, and just have "While Marie is alive, TAG-INS trigger X effect". It otherwise forces you to have her as the point fighter, which is not something a support wants. It also limits tag-in combos to only Octo + the tagging in fighter or the active fighter into the tagging in Octo


She is better in a lot of ways compared to her old version, and worse in others. Having element specific bonuses is fine, and can work great, but she can be improved to at least play a bit smoother