A Critique of Retakes

[7evan]

So after a couple months after retakes were introduced and playing around with them, I still believe that retakes still need to be tweaked/reworked due to 2 major issues:

1. Retakes are incredibly random and inconsistent​

The fact that you could roll for the same stat twice after a second reroll makes the process of choosing a stat incredibly tedious and inconsistent. For example, lets say you want to change your meter stat to piercing. On the first reroll you get crit resist, and seeing it isn't piercing is an overall a worse stat change, you keep your meter stat. However, with a second reroll, you also get rerolled crit resist. The problem here is that you can get stuck in a loop of getting the same rerolled stats again. The strategy becomes stock pilling a ton of retakes for a character, only to have no guarantee that you'll make any progress on changing.

2. Upgrading stat distribution is still random ​

Retakes don't affect stat distribution only the stat itself, which is understandable in fear of breaking game balance. However, a consequence of this is now the most optimal way of using retakes is to upgrade a gold move to the max lvl of 15 and then rerolling the stats. The problem with this lies in twofold: upgrading moves feel a lot less safe and this strategy requires a gigantic amount of gold.

If you use retakes to change a moves stats and then upgrade, there's always the chance that the stat distribution is not in your favor. For example, lets say you change a move with atk%/pierce/crit resist (a 2/3 move) to atk%/pierce/meter (a 3/3 move). Now that you have a perfect move, you should feel safe in upgrading in it, right? NOPE. There's always a possibility that the random stat distribution doesn't fall in you favor. That move may be a 3/3, but maybe after upgrading it to max it turns out the meter stat was upgraded the most with the atk% being upgraded the least. What is the only solution in this situation? To use more retakes to attempt to correct the stats in your favor, but as with the first major issue this might not happen at all. So in end it becomes optimal to use retakes at the end of upgrading a move.

This is why the "optimal strat" is to take a 0/3 move, upgrade to the max, and then pick and choose your desired stats. But the problem with this is that upgrading a gold move takes a GINORMOUS amount of resources and is still incredibly risky. To upgrade a gold move you need 2,935,000 coins. In comparison, the cost to fully upgrade a gold character is 2,685,000 coins. It takes more coins to upgrade a gold move than it does to fully upgrade a gold character. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but it's just to show how committal upgrading a move to max can be. So what's wrong with this "optimal strat" ? Well with this strategy, if you upgrade a 0/3 move to max and don't like the stat distribution, you have to build another move to max. So you have to build multiple max moves in hopes of getting the perfect stat distribution for your character's move set. Not only does this require enormous amounts of resources, it also isn't GURANTEED. You spend a enormous amount of resources to get good stat distribution (which is RANDOM) and spend more resources on getting the stats you want (which is RANDOM). My problem isn't that this strategy requires a lot of resources, it's that there's NO LIMIT on how many resources you could spend. It could take 10 million coins or 50 million coins. It could take 20 retakes or 100 retakes. The whole system is wack.

Which is why I have a couple of suggestions to maybe improve this system:

Suggestion 1: make the rerolled stat go in a cycle​

With this change stats are chosen randomly, but after retakes they are guaranteed to not to be the same rerolled stat as before and instead go through the remaining 16 possible stats. With this RNG is reduced greatly, but not gone completely. There is however a guarantee of getting the stat you want within 16 retakes, which makes the process a lot more workable towards.

Suggestion 2: make gold retakes guarantee rerolled stat/stat distribution​

NGL that fact that gold retakes don't do anything special except work on all characters is kinda disappointing. This change would make gold much more valuable. With golds you can now guarantee certain stats or stat distributions, making the upgrading process much less risky.

TL;DR: please reduce the amount of RNG in retakes and upgrading moves in general

(P.S. I've had this post idea for a while but only made it today because I got so mad wasting 15 retakes and 16 gold retakes on trying to make a stat be piercing. So yeah that was my tipping point.)

 

[Nefelibata]

Man, this was required. Retakes came as a major game changer and ended up being a gamble to be exact.

It could take 20 retakes or 100 retakes. The whole system is wack.

I felt pain there bro.

 

[Nefelibata]

Ok, now retakes need a buff or rework for real.

1. They are costly :
1 retake relic costs the same as 1 premiere relic, while the premiere relic has a 0.5% chance of dropping a diamond fighter retakes have a 2/17 chance to be of the fighter you want to reroll stats of and there are 15 stats (total 17 excluding 2 coz u can't get a same stat on the same move) so getting desired stat chance goes to 1/15 total amounting to 2/255 (0.8%) so getting desired stat on desired fighter is nearly equal to getting a diamond from premiere relic (IDK I may be wrong). Furthermore, only show me your moves pf provides retakes for free.
2. They are complete RNG:
one can use an infinite amount of retakes and for an infinite time get stats he doesn't want coz it's random. There is nothing guaranteed.

Suggestion 2: make gold retakes guarantee rerolled stat/stat distribution​

NGL that fact that gold retakes don't do anything special except work on all characters is kinda disappointing. This change would make gold much more valuable. With golds you can now guarantee certain stats or stat distributions, making the upgrading process much less risky.

this really would be helpful.

Overall retakes aren't bad if u want to hunt for just bunch of good stats but it is terrible if u want to go for a desired stat

 

[garyslater]

The commenter raises two major issues with retakes in the game:

1. Retakes are random and inconsistent, as players can get stuck in a loop of receiving the same rerolled stats. The suggested solution is to make the rerolled stat go in a cycle, guaranteeing a different stat each time within a limited number of retakes.
2. Upgrading stat distribution is still random, even after using retakes. The optimal strategy becomes upgrading a gold move to the max level and then rerolling stats. The problem is that upgrading a move to max requires a significant amount of resources and is still risky. The suggestion is to make gold retakes guarantee the rerolled stat or stat distribution, reducing the randomness and making gold more valuable.

 

[Grin Visage]

Just wasted 63 retakes and did not get the one stat I was looking for.

This is some seriously rage-quit inducing level of annoying. No, it's not fun, and it's supposed to be.

Considering how much these things cost, I am completely on board with changes.

1. I like the idea of a rotation, or have the chances of stats that are not rolled go up by a small amount each time, so even if you keep failing, eventually the one you want is still guaranteed. The odds can reset when you close the window.

2. Having gold retakes a guaranteed choice of stats is too powerful. They would have to become super rare or super expensive, or it will throw the system off balance. But in the similar vein I would be willing to trade a number of retakes for a guaranteed choice of stat. For example, 10 character retakes, or 5 gold retakes.

PLEASE make some changes!