Other Censorship Solution

[Blackstraw]

As many know, there has been some changes in the art of the game Skullgirls. Many of the players didn't agree with the changes (changing the Black Egrets symbol, censoring Filia's underwear, censoring a scene from Big Band's Story Mode and etc.) So I come out with a solution that might satisfy both parties.
The possible solution could be the censorship being optional. If you don't feel comfortable seeing most of the lewd content in the game you could go at the settings menu, and turn on the censorship. But if you want to see the lewd content, you could simply turn off the censorship. This way both parties could be satisfied, the ones who don't like the censorship, and the ones who do prefer it.
So, do you think this idea could be possible and solve all this censorship matter?

 

[RETRO_FUNK]

The truth is that it's a good idea, but hey, we just have to wait for another Skullgirls update

 

[a la antigua]

mi Es cierto sería una buena solución. Pero habrá que convencer a los cristales para que se dejen de boludeces

 

[RETRO_FUNK]

mi Es cierto sería una buena solución. Pero habrá que convencer a los cristales para que se dejen de boludeces

Eso es verdad, los cristales se quejan y lo peor es que ni juegan al juego, si Skullgirls tuviera la clasificacion "M" no hubiera problemas pero es difícil también cambiar la clasificación por el control de la ESRB

 

[Bitter-Floral]

Ya I think 'watering down' the game and trying to make it, I guess 'more acceptable' to a wider audience will absolutely be the death of this game. Second-guessing the art and story decisions that won you this fan base to please folks who will likely never play this game to begin with is an awful and self-destructive choice. My advice would be to fire up those resumes, you might need them soon.

 

[Blackstraw]

Eso es verdad, los cristales se quejan y lo peor es que ni juegan al juego, si Skullgirls tuviera la clasificacion "M" no hubiera problemas pero es difícil también cambiar la clasificación por el control de la ESRB

Creo que los verdaderos cristales son los mismos desarrolladores, yo no vi a nadie quejándose de algo de lo que censuraron, o sea no vi a nadie quejándose del símbolo de las garzas negras antes de que lo censuraran. Así que toda esta censura me parece puro capricho de los desarrolladores.

 

[BallotBoxer]

It's their game and they can change whatever sore spot they've been meaning to fix over the last decade they've been working on it. Future Club is mostly Lab Zero, and HVS has been working on Skullgirls for several years. Both companies are only thinking of what's best for Skullgirls' future. Weird inconsistencies needed to be smoothed out.

The possible solution could be the censorship being optional.

Yeah, that's why mods exist. Look to Steam's modding community to meet your wants. Don't expect the devs to undo all the work they did to get rid of things they don't want anymore.

 

[Bitter-Floral]

It's true it's their game to ruin if they like, and it's our choice not to support it if we don't like their choices. The things I think people take issue with is the removal of content that was explicitly paid for (e.g. Soviet Announcer Pack), and changes that water down the character and story of the game to align it with some arbitrary corporate culture. It's also an odd choice to make these sorts of changes on a game that's 10+ years old. Then they go out of their way to mock and belittle the same people who have been supporting them for all those years because they provided feedback on these changes. So I think the ire is justified, even if Future Club believes the changes were also. In the end, we can all just vote with our wallets.

 

[Diony]

It's a Good Ideia but i don't think they will do anything

 

[Bitter-Floral]

Agreed, there will be no more traction on this. They've as much as said so, and their attitude towards the community about the whole thing has been one of 'if you oppose censorship or don't fall completely in line with our current (not even past) so-called "values," then you must be a creep or perv, etc, etc' - as if we're all salivating over decade-old cartoon panties or something. It's kind of sad to see a cheeky game like Skullgirls (of all games lol) to suddenly pretend to stand on some sort of moral high ground, but here we are.

 

[GoldiTM]

Well, I'd say it like this. Shortly, censorship is for the best. But if with explanations, then here.

This game is a free game on mobile. The same Skullgirls game is on PC, but a bit different. Story is different, nothing gains censorship, and here's why. Android game is free. That means every single person can play it. And any child can download this game. But in the steam, you can't just download Skullgirls. You need to pay for the game, and that would be really hard for, for example, you, to explain your parents why you need money and what is this 18+ game is doing on your wishlist. So, the censorship is necessary, because it's not Devs choice, it's a choice of the Google Play itself. But personally I think it's for the best, and even if devs didn't do it on purpose, but because they was forced to, it's the only good thing they made against mobile version of the Skullgirls. At least, less weirdos will play this game. If you don't know what am I saying, and who weirdos are, check channel 0.

 

[Bitter-Floral]

Hmm, not trying to stir the pot, but some of what you're saying may be a little misleading. No one from Autumn Games or Future Club were 'forced' to censor the game, by Google or anyone else. Nor were they subjected to any kind of pressure campaign. They undertook this censorship campaign completely of their own volition without any feedback from the community or outside pressure that I know of.

Furthermore, owning an iPhone or Android does not automatically give you access to mature content on their app stores. Both stores have a minimum age limit of 13 (access prior to this age is against TOC and generally a result of being aided by parents or using something like Family Link), and all content has age-restrictive ratings that can be enforced by parental controls. Skullgirls is rated "T" for Teen by Google.

Also, weirdos play all games (ever heard of Roblox? Minecraft?), and censoring content will not change this at all. Channel 0 is the exact same post-censor. And assuming that being ideologically opposed to censorship (which we're seeing way too much of these days, people are actually burning books again - history anyone?) automatically means you're a weirdo is a logical fallacy of the highest order (multiple fallacies, actually).

Finally, let's be honest: As cheeky and potty as Skullgirls is, it's actually pretty tame compared to a lot of games I've seen on the app stores. So this idea that Skullgirls is so laden with lewdness and inappropriate content that perverts are flocking to it and causing some sort of imagined harm seems a bit silly to me.

Nothing good ever comes from censorship, that's my view. You're welcome to disagree, but I stand on the side of artistic freedom. I think this culture of censorship is more damaging than the problems it's trying to solve. For example, hear about the Florida principal who was fired after parents complained about her showing their children the 'pornographic' statue of David?

So I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Here's some sources (there's much, much more, but it's a start):

Current 'Skullgirls' Devs Censor Popular Fighting Game Series "In The Spirit Of Better Reflecting Our Values And Our Broad Vision Moving Forward"

Autumn Games has announced that they will be undertaking a massive censorship campaign against the 'Skullgirls' IP.

boundingintocomics.com

Nazi book burnings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166079167/tallahassee-classical-michelangelo-david-principal-fired

16 Common Logical Fallacies and How to Spot Them

Logical fallacies might be hiding in your daily conversations. Learn how to identify everyday logical fallacies and improve your argumentation skills.

blog.hubspot.com

 

[Diony]

And any child can download this game. But in the steam, you can't just download Skullgirls. You need to pay for the game, and that would be really hard for, for example, you, to explain your parents why you need money and what is this 18+ game is doing on your wishlist.

18? It's 14 in Brazil.

 

[GoldiTM]

Hmm, not trying to stir the pot, but some of what you're saying may be a little misleading. No one from Autumn Games or Future Club were 'forced' to censor the game, by Google or anyone else. Nor were they subjected to any kind of pressure campaign. They undertook this censorship campaign completely of their own volition without any feedback from the community or outside pressure that I know of.

Furthermore, owning an iPhone or Android does not automatically give you access to mature content on their app stores. Both stores have a minimum age limit of 13 (access prior to this age is against TOC and generally a result of being aided by parents or using something like Family Link), and all content has age-restrictive ratings that can be enforced by parental controls. Skullgirls is rated "T" for Teen by Google.

Also, weirdos play all games (ever heard of Roblox? Minecraft?), and censoring content will not change this at all. Channel 0 is the exact same post-censor. And assuming that being ideologically opposed to censorship (which we're seeing way too much of these days, people are actually burning books again - history anyone?) automatically means you're a weirdo is a logical fallacy of the highest order (multiple fallacies, actually).

Finally, let's be honest: As cheeky and potty as Skullgirls is, it's actually pretty tame compared to a lot of games I've seen on the app stores. So this idea that Skullgirls is so laden with lewdness and inappropriate content that perverts are flocking to it and causing some sort of imagined harm seems a bit silly to me.

Nothing good ever comes from censorship, that's my view. You're welcome to disagree, but I stand on the side of artistic freedom. I think this culture of censorship is more damaging than the problems it's trying to solve. For example, hear about the Florida principal who was fired after parents complained about her showing their children the 'pornographic' statue of David?

So I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Here's some sources (there's much, much more, but it's a start):

Current 'Skullgirls' Devs Censor Popular Fighting Game Series "In The Spirit Of Better Reflecting Our Values And Our Broad Vision Moving Forward"

Autumn Games has announced that they will be undertaking a massive censorship campaign against the 'Skullgirls' IP.

boundingintocomics.com

Nazi book burnings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166079167/tallahassee-classical-michelangelo-david-principal-fired

16 Common Logical Fallacies and How to Spot Them

Logical fallacies might be hiding in your daily conversations. Learn how to identify everyday logical fallacies and improve your argumentation skills.

blog.hubspot.com

Ok

 

[Bitter-Floral]

18? It's 14 in Brazil.

It's 14 (or maybe 13?) in the US as well. Skullgirls was never an 18+ game. It's rated T for "teen" - hence my comment about misleading information

 

[Grin Visage]

Insensitivity is a form of bigotry. In many cases it is not a matter of intent, but result. Just because you don't think it should matter, doesn't mean it won't offend or hurt someone.

And I am not talking about the hypersensitivity that some people have these days that they just get offended at every little politically incorrect comment. This is serious stuff, like sexual harassments (jokes and touching), or things like blackface. Again, it's not the intent, it's the result. You don't get to say it's fine just because you don't 'mean' anything bad.

I am sorry you don't get to see red armbands and 16 year old panties anymore, but I support the dev's decisions.

 

[Bitter-Floral]

Yes, please. Let's talk about sensitivity in a game that has boobies flopping all over the place and wanton violence. How bout we censor those? In fact, let's change the name of the game to Skull People. Let's get rid of the fighting, too and change it to a platformer.

Creating art and stories are not always meant to make everyone comfortable. The Empire in Star Wars? Clearly Nazis. Indiana Jones? ACTUAL Nazis. Could you make the Oppenheimer movie with no mention of the Nazis or Hiroshima? Is it uncomfortable? Yes, but knowing your history teaches you to avoid repeating those mistakes in the future. Hiding everything away so you don't offend anyone leads to ignorance which leads to all the bad uncomfortable things happening in real life, rather than just in a movie or video game. Art is meant to express our worst selves as well as our best selves.

As for marginalizing the argument around teenage cartoon panties (ignoring the fact that there is no actual 16-year old, just a fictional cartoon character) and brassards (which are also used by the US Military among many, many others): I think what many in the community are more upset about is changes or outright removal of content they already paid for (e.g. Soviet Announcer, Illustrations in the Digital Art Compendium, etc). I've not seen a lot of people clamoring to bring Filia's panties back (publicly anyway).

As for me, I just think that censorship is dangerous and destructive, and does nothing to solve the issues it was intended to address. To be perfectly fair, I think the changes the devs made here were hardly noticeable in most cases, but I do think it's a path that must be walked with the utmost care. Not that SkullGirls is some literary or artistic masterpiece, but it is a well-loved IP that deserves respect. Censorship is a slippery slope that generally leads to nothing good.

At any rate, I've already said everything about this I cared to. What's done is done. It's still a good game. It's upsetting that the devs were 'insensitive bigots' as you put it to their own fan base, but you can't blame them for attempting to broaden the appeal of their product. Even though, 10 years on it's seems that energy would've better been spent on a new IP.

Anyways, moving on...

 

[Grin Visage]

If anyone is offended by boobs (legal age) or violence, they don't have to consume the product. If they try to take it away from everyone, that's what I would call hypersensitivity. But that's not the censorship we are talking about here is it?

Let's face it, Filia's panty shots and Nazi imagery are the main reasons for most of those who oppose censorship here.

Comparing Skullgirls to works that actually depict Nazis is a false equivalency. In those works the Nazis are bad guys that lose horribly, and/or they need to be there because the story is about WWII. There's no credible rationalization for Black Egrets to use red armbands, it does not add to who they are. And they still have it, just black now.

Saying a piece of lewd art is underage or not does make a difference. Filia is 16. Just because there isn't a real life underage girl doesn't mean the idea isn't there.

 

[Bitter-Floral]

Well good thing you were here to tell us all what we really think, what we should or shouldn't be sensitive about, and shower us with your infinite wisdom and omniscience.

If you believe that people should stop caring or talking about this, and you support the devs, let's go play the game and stop bumping this post, yes?

But if you just want to be right about everything and everyone to agree with you 100% life will be very disappointing. Opinions are not facts. Beliefs are not facts. They don't change because you want them to. They aren't intrinsically right or wrong. There's nothing constructive about arguing about them.

In the words of Forrest Gump, that's all I've got to say about that. Have a wonderful day.

 

[Grin Visage]

No, people should care and talk about this.

Some things are deep-rooted and truly offensive to a people, that's a fact.

Using them for no good reason is cavalier. We need to learn about them. The devs did the right thing.