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Fights Competitive versus

「 Good Loser 」

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Versus mode is super broken.

The biggest issue by far is lag. 4 times out of 5 there is some sort of lag in a match. Dropping g5 because of input delay, not being able to react to throws because of missing frames, and getting hit because the opponent just teleported right in front of you, plus so many others. These can and have cost matches. And even if you do win, the fight isn’t fun at all because everything moves at a snail’s pace. It becomes more of a chore to finish the fight than a game. Despite being the biggest issue, I do understand that it is probably the most unfixable one. I don’t expect this to be resolved any time soon, if at all. But I just wanted to put it out there in case there is anything that could be done about it.

Another big issue is unbalanced characters. The top tiers currently are pea, squig, annie, and fortune. There’s nothing inherently evil about pea and squig, they’re just a bit braindead. Annie and ms fortune on the other hand, are just ridiculous. Especially fortune. She needs a serious nerf please for the love of god. She can tod every character without equipping any moves. The head is too op. Maybe a longer cooldown between moves, or limit it to one of each head move per combo, like blockbusters. Her special moves and blockbusters aren’t too busted. El gato’s damage is a bit much and csf and paws probably shouldn’t be safe on block but other than that she’s pretty okay for a top tier. Annie’s star power, like headless, needs a serious nerf. It does stupid amounts of damage for completely free, and most of the time it just feels undeserved. My biggest issue with Annie is that she’s just too safe. The recovery for pillarc feels way too quick for such a big move, beam is completely safe against everything except beo’s launch (and that’s only if he blocks it point blank), re rentry can be cancelled after the second hit, slingshot just speaks for itself, and her g5 can be safe on block with sp. The worst offender however, is her sp cancel. Especially when she does that gopher thing. Then it becomes literally impossible to escape without bb3. I am not exaggerating, it is genuinely impossible to escape once she has you in that loop. I suggest making her recovery for some of these moves longer. For example, giving pillarc that same recovery as sscope, giving beam the same recovery as catastrophe cannon (giving catcannon the same frames as beam would be nice too), but I just have no idea what to do about slingshot without nerfing it into oblivion. As for star power, I’m not so sure. Maybe having it build up with hits like a blockbuster instead of it building up on its own. Or having it decrease greatly when using moves imbued with star power, eg; g5, juggle, charge, sweep, pillard, re entry, knuckle. And maybe decrease the damage it does on block, and just do away with sp cancel entirely. Once they activate it, it drains all the way. Ride or die. Not only for the gopher trick, but also some people spam cancel in and out of star power mode to intentionally cause lag while you’re comboing them which is just scummy. At the very least make it so that it’s they can’t cancel out of it while they’re being hit.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, are the bottom tiers. Beo, pw, Bella, robo, and double. All of these characters are in need of some rework. Double is arguably mid tier but she still needs some buffs imo. Bella could use a simple damage increase. The fact that daf does less than el gato and pinion hurts my soul. Other than that she’s fairly well balanced. Painwheel has some insane mixup but unfortunately doesn’t have many opportunities to use them, so perhaps make her neutral game better? Sorry I don’t have many ideas on how to do that. Also it would be nice if her blockbusters and specials were viable for combos outside of the corner too. This might be going a bit far but maybe rework her backdash too, because right now it’s just atrocious. As for the others, I’m not so sure. Double needs a serious damage buff, but she has other issues as well. As to what exactly they are I can’t say. Beo has only one combo and it only works against lights in the corner, plus his g1 is horrendously slow. Robo is just a hot mess and I don’t even know why she’s as bad as she is. Though, a nice change would be making launching head drones faster. Perhaps being fast enough to safely launch two on incoming opponents instead of one? They could all use the filia treatment, changing the properties of certain moves to make them more viable. I don’t have any concrete solutions so I just hope someone can help the bottom tiers out.

This next one isn’t exactly a problem with versus, but it is something that’s been bugging me and a few others. Bb3 just feels unfair. Competitive was advertised as a test of skill, but where’s the skill involved with pushing a button for free damage? At best, it’s just an annoyance that drags the match on, and at worst it’s a completely undeserved kill. Since getting hit builds more meter than landing a hit, it’s possible to be punished just for not being able to pull off a tod. Besides being a pain to deal with, bb3’s also just aren’t fun. They bring the pace of the battle to a grinding halt and ruin the momentum of the fight. New players will mash bb3 on wake up which do just as much if not more damage than that sick combo you pulled off. It can get even more dissatisfying, though. There were times when I’d be battling someone and we both get down to our final characters. We’re both one touch away from death, full screen, it’s a stand-off to see who draws first. But then, they just whip out a bb3, and I stand there helplessly as I am unable to block the thing that I knew was so obviously coming but couldn’t do anything about. All the tension just drains away and you’re left bitter. They didn’t outplay you, they just picked a move that was guaranteed to hit. But it gets even worse. Certain characters can even get a tod off of bb3’s under certain circumstances. That statement says enough, but by far the worst offender is photo bop. Photo bop is just about the dumbest thing there is in pvp. It’s just so unbearably braindead. If you don’t have a burst, you’re basically screwed. And even if you do, you could still get tod’d if they have the right moves and enough star power. This section was written with very heavy personal bias so please take everything I said with a grain of salt. But, I will still try to propose a legitimate solution. It’s been suggested a number of times before that bb3’s not be unblockable, but behave like normal blockbusters. It would be so much more interesting if those moves could be used in actual combos and not just sit there for free damage. This is by far the least paramount issue in this long list, but I thought it would at least be worth a mention.

Another major issue with pvp is the rage quitters. People will just leave when you start winning, then meet you again in randoms and keep fighting as if nothing happened. Frankly, most of us have become desensitized to this. For me at least, every 9 out of 10 players will purposefully disconnect. It’s tiring, but there’s no way to do anything about it. Usually I just leave immediately if I match up with someone who’s rage quit on me before, but that’s about the extent of control you have over it. Sometimes they leave after you kill their point character, other times they leave right as you deal the finishing blow so that the battle doesn’t end with your victory despite you killing all of their characters. I genuinely don’t understand why, though. My best guess is that they just don’t like losing so they leave before their loss is official. It should go without saying that this shouldn’t go unpunished. I’m not saying that the quit button should be entirely removed. There are times when the lag is just too much to bear and it becomes more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve done so too occasionally (10k ping is around where I draw the line). However, there just isn’t much that can be done to reprimand rage quitters other than locking them out of pvp, which will hardly effect them at all. Which brings me to my next point

People just don’t have any incentive to do pvp. Story mode, rifts, dailies, and pfs all give rewards to players for doing them. The only game modes that don’t reward players are versus, and training mode. The 10 theonite from the daily mission can hardly be considered a reward compared to the relics, skill points, shards, and heaps of coins and theo given by the other game modes. Like many others have said before, I am suggesting ranked pvp. Players would have a reason to go into versus mode, learn combos and tech, and would have real reason not to rage quit. They would receive rewards for winning, and there could even be a leader board for most wins. However, I do see an issue in that idea as well. If ranked pvp does become a thing, I imagine everyone would flock to free for all as opposed to competitive, since they’ll be able to use the characters they’re more familiar with. If ranked pvp only applies for ffa, competitive will remain untouched. If ranked pvp only applies for comp, ffa will remain untouched. If ranked pvp applies for both, pve players will likely choose ffa over comp. this is just a guess, but if this ever does come to fruition, maybe it can be fixed by giving comp better rewards? I can’t tell if I’m being biased or not anymore. I’m just tired of facing players that get scared at the first sign of any tech and drop pvp because they don’t understand it. Ranked pvp would give people a reason to actually learn combos and complicated maneuvers. However, this is all assuming the lag issue is nonexistent, or at least mitigated. But knowing that’s likely impossible to fix, this probably isn’t going to happen either.

I was directed here by cell in chat to let the devs know about my grievances with competitive versus mode. I really like this game mode and want to see it flourish. Hopefully I was able to bring some attention to these issues, and maybe some of them will even be fixed. But that’s not likely. It feels like pvp was just forgotten after it was first implemented. I don’t expect much to come from this, but any kind of response would be greatly appreciated. Even confirming that none of this is going to be fixed would be a relief.
 

Nefelibata

Active Member
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Jan 20, 2022
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Versus mode is super broken.

The biggest issue by far is lag. 4 times out of 5 there is some sort of lag in a match. Dropping g5 because of input delay, not being able to react to throws because of missing frames, and getting hit because the opponent just teleported right in front of you, plus so many others. These can and have cost matches. And even if you do win, the fight isn’t fun at all because everything moves at a snail’s pace. It becomes more of a chore to finish the fight than a game. Despite being the biggest issue, I do understand that it is probably the most unfixable one. I don’t expect this to be resolved any time soon, if at all. But I just wanted to put it out there in case there is anything that could be done about it.

Another big issue is unbalanced characters. The top tiers currently are pea, squig, annie, and fortune. There’s nothing inherently evil about pea and squig, they’re just a bit braindead. Annie and ms fortune on the other hand, are just ridiculous. Especially fortune. She needs a serious nerf please for the love of god. She can tod every character without equipping any moves. The head is too op. Maybe a longer cooldown between moves, or limit it to one of each head move per combo, like blockbusters. Her special moves and blockbusters aren’t too busted. El gato’s damage is a bit much and csf and paws probably shouldn’t be safe on block but other than that she’s pretty okay for a top tier. Annie’s star power, like headless, needs a serious nerf. It does stupid amounts of damage for completely free, and most of the time it just feels undeserved. My biggest issue with Annie is that she’s just too safe. The recovery for pillarc feels way too quick for such a big move, beam is completely safe against everything except beo’s launch (and that’s only if he blocks it point blank), re rentry can be cancelled after the second hit, slingshot just speaks for itself, and her g5 can be safe on block with sp. The worst offender however, is her sp cancel. Especially when she does that gopher thing. Then it becomes literally impossible to escape without bb3. I am not exaggerating, it is genuinely impossible to escape once she has you in that loop. I suggest making her recovery for some of these moves longer. For example, giving pillarc that same recovery as sscope, giving beam the same recovery as catastrophe cannon (giving catcannon the same frames as beam would be nice too), but I just have no idea what to do about slingshot without nerfing it into oblivion. As for star power, I’m not so sure. Maybe having it build up with hits like a blockbuster instead of it building up on its own. Or having it decrease greatly when using moves imbued with star power, eg; g5, juggle, charge, sweep, pillard, re entry, knuckle. And maybe decrease the damage it does on block, and just do away with sp cancel entirely. Once they activate it, it drains all the way. Ride or die. Not only for the gopher trick, but also some people spam cancel in and out of star power mode to intentionally cause lag while you’re comboing them which is just scummy. At the very least make it so that it’s they can’t cancel out of it while they’re being hit.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, are the bottom tiers. Beo, pw, Bella, robo, and double. All of these characters are in need of some rework. Double is arguably mid tier but she still needs some buffs imo. Bella could use a simple damage increase. The fact that daf does less than el gato and pinion hurts my soul. Other than that she’s fairly well balanced. Painwheel has some insane mixup but unfortunately doesn’t have many opportunities to use them, so perhaps make her neutral game better? Sorry I don’t have many ideas on how to do that. Also it would be nice if her blockbusters and specials were viable for combos outside of the corner too. This might be going a bit far but maybe rework her backdash too, because right now it’s just atrocious. As for the others, I’m not so sure. Double needs a serious damage buff, but she has other issues as well. As to what exactly they are I can’t say. Beo has only one combo and it only works against lights in the corner, plus his g1 is horrendously slow. Robo is just a hot mess and I don’t even know why she’s as bad as she is. Though, a nice change would be making launching head drones faster. Perhaps being fast enough to safely launch two on incoming opponents instead of one? They could all use the filia treatment, changing the properties of certain moves to make them more viable. I don’t have any concrete solutions so I just hope someone can help the bottom tiers out.

This next one isn’t exactly a problem with versus, but it is something that’s been bugging me and a few others. Bb3 just feels unfair. Competitive was advertised as a test of skill, but where’s the skill involved with pushing a button for free damage? At best, it’s just an annoyance that drags the match on, and at worst it’s a completely undeserved kill. Since getting hit builds more meter than landing a hit, it’s possible to be punished just for not being able to pull off a tod. Besides being a pain to deal with, bb3’s also just aren’t fun. They bring the pace of the battle to a grinding halt and ruin the momentum of the fight. New players will mash bb3 on wake up which do just as much if not more damage than that sick combo you pulled off. It can get even more dissatisfying, though. There were times when I’d be battling someone and we both get down to our final characters. We’re both one touch away from death, full screen, it’s a stand-off to see who draws first. But then, they just whip out a bb3, and I stand there helplessly as I am unable to block the thing that I knew was so obviously coming but couldn’t do anything about. All the tension just drains away and you’re left bitter. They didn’t outplay you, they just picked a move that was guaranteed to hit. But it gets even worse. Certain characters can even get a tod off of bb3’s under certain circumstances. That statement says enough, but by far the worst offender is photo bop. Photo bop is just about the dumbest thing there is in pvp. It’s just so unbearably braindead. If you don’t have a burst, you’re basically screwed. And even if you do, you could still get tod’d if they have the right moves and enough star power. This section was written with very heavy personal bias so please take everything I said with a grain of salt. But, I will still try to propose a legitimate solution. It’s been suggested a number of times before that bb3’s not be unblockable, but behave like normal blockbusters. It would be so much more interesting if those moves could be used in actual combos and not just sit there for free damage. This is by far the least paramount issue in this long list, but I thought it would at least be worth a mention.

Another major issue with pvp is the rage quitters. People will just leave when you start winning, then meet you again in randoms and keep fighting as if nothing happened. Frankly, most of us have become desensitized to this. For me at least, every 9 out of 10 players will purposefully disconnect. It’s tiring, but there’s no way to do anything about it. Usually I just leave immediately if I match up with someone who’s rage quit on me before, but that’s about the extent of control you have over it. Sometimes they leave after you kill their point character, other times they leave right as you deal the finishing blow so that the battle doesn’t end with your victory despite you killing all of their characters. I genuinely don’t understand why, though. My best guess is that they just don’t like losing so they leave before their loss is official. It should go without saying that this shouldn’t go unpunished. I’m not saying that the quit button should be entirely removed. There are times when the lag is just too much to bear and it becomes more trouble than it’s worth. I’ve done so too occasionally (10k ping is around where I draw the line). However, there just isn’t much that can be done to reprimand rage quitters other than locking them out of pvp, which will hardly effect them at all. Which brings me to my next point

People just don’t have any incentive to do pvp. Story mode, rifts, dailies, and pfs all give rewards to players for doing them. The only game modes that don’t reward players are versus, and training mode. The 10 theonite from the daily mission can hardly be considered a reward compared to the relics, skill points, shards, and heaps of coins and theo given by the other game modes. Like many others have said before, I am suggesting ranked pvp. Players would have a reason to go into versus mode, learn combos and tech, and would have real reason not to rage quit. They would receive rewards for winning, and there could even be a leader board for most wins. However, I do see an issue in that idea as well. If ranked pvp does become a thing, I imagine everyone would flock to free for all as opposed to competitive, since they’ll be able to use the characters they’re more familiar with. If ranked pvp only applies for ffa, competitive will remain untouched. If ranked pvp only applies for comp, ffa will remain untouched. If ranked pvp applies for both, pve players will likely choose ffa over comp. this is just a guess, but if this ever does come to fruition, maybe it can be fixed by giving comp better rewards? I can’t tell if I’m being biased or not anymore. I’m just tired of facing players that get scared at the first sign of any tech and drop pvp because they don’t understand it. Ranked pvp would give people a reason to actually learn combos and complicated maneuvers. However, this is all assuming the lag issue is nonexistent, or at least mitigated. But knowing that’s likely impossible to fix, this probably isn’t going to happen either.

I was directed here by cell in chat to let the devs know about my grievances with competitive versus mode. I really like this game mode and want to see it flourish. Hopefully I was able to bring some attention to these issues, and maybe some of them will even be fixed. But that’s not likely. It feels like pvp was just forgotten after it was first implemented. I don’t expect much to come from this, but any kind of response would be greatly appreciated. Even confirming that none of this is going to be fixed would be a relief.
Bro I guess by the length of message you are a true sufferer