1. [2018/06/22]
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Diamond Wall

Discussion in 'General Strategy' started by Shambles88, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. Shambles88

    Shambles88 Member

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    Hey Fellow Players!

    I found myself stuck somehow in the game. I Already have 5 GOld Fighters with Marquee, other 3 at 48 and kinda 10 golds between 45/35. And 1 natural diamond peacock. So im Gold1 in rift, and i keep losing battles, not because i lose fights, insted i cant get past the evolved diamond fighters in the boss node that some players of my same rank have (i loss by time out). So i cant reach the Diamond 5 and start getting keys.
    I have 3 dark essence but i lack the 5 fighters (i have wolfsbane and primed at 48). Or i have fighters but i lack essence (I have bellas to evolve Harlquinn and Squiglys to Poltergust).

    Im not sure if i sould save gold and rift coins for buying the full diamond fighter, or if i should keep trying to get more fighters to evolve the primed or bane. Or just try to get essence of fire and wind.
     
  2. TonyPartridge30

    TonyPartridge30 Well-Known Member

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    Having one really strong Diamond fighter can get you pretty far. But natural Diamonds are harder to level up so you might be better off evolving your best gold into Diamond. Wulfsbane makes for a really useful Diamond, imo. For essences, make sure you do your Daily Events at Master difficulty and get every milestone for the weekend Elemental PFs, and eventually you'll build up stores of essences. You'll collect essences faster than you can evolve, probably. I've only got 1 evolved Diamond right now but I've got at least 5 of each essence.

    It won't be fast work getting everything you need for a Diamond evolution, but then it's not supposed to. It can also help to use the Cabinet; I usually get 1 Premium Relic per day from the Cabinet so I have alot of Bronze that I evolve to silver, then gold, etc.

    When it comes to Rift battle boss nodes, there are ways to beat them beyond just brawling it out, if you have the right fighters.
     
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  3. infine

    infine Active Member

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    Consider the following: Diamond 4 is top 1% of all rift participants.

    It's not supposed to be easy. Probably.

    That being said, I'm comfortably D4, I have 2 evolved diamonds, zero natural diamonds, and most of my carry golds aren't even fully upgraded.

    You don't really need diamonds for D4, you need a roster that can clear nodes reliably. Typically that's not about pure FS, but about fighters that work good with specific modifiers.

    For example Diva and any Bella with MA work good on the Immunity node (without expending Val on it), because they can do meter control through immunity and can eventually kill even opponents 3 times their FS (I use 6.5K FS diva on that node regardless of the enemy FS).

    Rusty, BHD, Doublicious and SK work good on the armour node. Or you can try Purrfect Dark as a support (by herself she has no means of countering meter, but can shutdown Untouchable/RE/AF). Also special mention goes to Doublicious because if the enemy puts RE upfront, she starts with elemental advantage and can chaos him into oblivion right off the bat.

    Personally for me DoW works really good on the reactive stun node because meter control and inbuilt safety net that allows you to forgo Val support and/or strong backup characters that could be used on other nodes.

    In my experience D4 only requires diamonds on the boss node and only against the hardest opponents (I.e. you don't need diamonds to beat my boss node). Though probably a gold Bio would also work. The thing that makes boss node much easier is SG with Trauma Center. Gold is fine. Then you just grab a fighter with a good damage output and that won't hurt themselves with reflected buffs too much. Though ability to dash intercept and/or do meter control without debuffs would be useful. I wonder how gold HQ Bella with meter drain MA would fare on the boss node.
     
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  4. cappatacus

    cappatacus Active Member

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    There could be two underlying issues to this: Poor fighters or poor movesets. Not leveling up moves and BBs can seriously set you back - a lot of the defense teams you're up against could have 30/40/50% defense just from moves, or just as much, if not more bonus hp.

    Fighters can make or break your success too. It sounds like you're on the right track with WB and Primed. Most fighters with bleed are good, like Bad Hair Day, Bloodbath, Parasite Weave, Blood Drive, Buzzkill, or Scarlet Viper (debatably). Or if you're like me, you have a problem with Valentine and make her an attacker with a bleed moveset like nobody intended. These aren't the only good fighters - just some. Check out the tier lists in the forums.

    I guess you could also be turtling too much if you're timing out. Or maybe you need more combos. I'm not sure bc I don't know how you play or what fighters you use, but I know that it's possible to complete rift battle bosses. Best of luck!
     
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  5. cappatacus

    cappatacus Active Member

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    Thought about it again, and I realized that with the amount of fighters you have, it's going to be difficult to 100% complete rifts. I'm at about the same level, but I have a few extra golds and a few diamonds. That's going to make a difference too. Well....obviously. If you haven't already, then completing Accursed Experiments for the first time will give you 3 random essences of one element. And you have dark, so I personally recommend Primed, but Wulfsbane or Bad Hair Day are good too.
     
  6. Shambles88

    Shambles88 Member

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    in MOST of the nodes im able to win with basic strategy. The armour is where rusty really shines (i have to try the doubleicious one now). The Diva is also my pick to the inmunity one same as my Bloody Valentine for the stun one (the one with 3)
    Last couple of battle i found a SG supporting the enemy team and my HQ Bella gives everything and yet i cant clear the node (without a SG or tanky fighter the HQ or Poltergust does most of the work). I realize that i dont use tag out moves, wich makes me have to get 2 fighters below 50% so the SG tag in.

    After what cappatacus said maybe i should invest more on my moves. I only have a like 3 moves in lvl9 and most of them are lvl3

    I think i need to boost some fighters so i end up putting money in skill trees rather then moves. But sometimes i think that im upgrading more fighters then needed
     

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  7. Shambles88

    Shambles88 Member

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    I cant choose one (Some days i say Bane and the other i say Primed hahah), and the worst thing is that the pf for both where at the same time then the seasonal beatings so i didnt even put a good fight for the golds.
     
  8. cappatacus

    cappatacus Active Member

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    Ha, I get that. I was wishy washy with Brain Freeze and DoW for a while, but the good thing is that you'll eventually get enough resources for both. Don't quote me on this, because I don't have a well built WB to compare, but I believe Primed has a higher damage output potential. You can usually keep up three stacks of enrage at all times with her, which easily lets her keep up with WB, but on top of that she can use bleed, and her marquee is deadly. But also, I don't use Beo in general, so I could be overlooking things. I know that they're both good, so whichever one you have the most fun playing with I guess.
     
  9. TonyPartridge30

    TonyPartridge30 Well-Known Member

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    Wulfsbane is nice because the heal block goes through certain characters that bleed doesn't work on (ICU Valentines, Bloodbath Eliza). While I no longer have a gold Wulfsbane, I have a feeling that Wulf has a higher base attack and base HP than Primed, but I can't verify this. But true enough, they're both quite potent as attackers.
     
  10. cappatacus

    cappatacus Active Member

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    I agree, the heal block is really nice with the bleed counters.

    I checked, and their stats are like this:
    Wulfsbane - ATK 6075, HP 25.7k
    Primed - ATK 5444, HP 25.7k

    Primed does have slightly lower attack, but she does have the potential to gain the enrage to more than surpass Beo, along with a bleed trigger (although, as you mentioned, this won't always work), and her Critical Mass MA. I've one shot myself against a Painwheel on Tainted Blood with a Napalm Shot. Keep in mind my Primed is a diamond, but at the time was hovering around 12k. I've also heard of Silent Scope dealing 125k damage, which I could maybe believe - 100% bonus from enrage, 30-40% bonus per tear, and she's lethal.

    Wulfsbane does get his 50% bonus, though, and however much at a time from his MA, so you could argue they're neck and neck. I'm partial to Parasoul, but Beowulf is cool. 50% bonus damage is cool on any fighter.
     
  11. Reshiram18

    Reshiram18 Active Member

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    I have diamonded both Primed and Wulfsbane. In terms of damage output comparing the two of them would be unfair in my case because my Primed is both at a higher level and has more move investment than my Wulfsbane. If you are purely looking at Rift Battles (the Sancrosanct boss node in particular) I have found that Primed is a far better choice than Wulfsbane because her damage output does not rely upon having a debuff on your opponent. Wulfsbane is good for PFs and works well against the other Rift Battle nodes, but Primed will serve you far better against the boss node, while also being just as good for PFs.
     
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  12. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    I'm team Primed all the way. If you're really invested in her (and I am) you're talking about hits that do on average +60% from enrage, plus up to another +200% from her MA. And a fast filling BB1 with a raised chance of Crit% to go with it. And bleeds. And an easy strategy that I wrote up elsewhere to keep opponent's meter from filling up, even with the "Overcharged" modifier.

    I like to team Primed with Harlequin and Peashooter, which helps me throw out my Naplam Shots more often, and adds another +80% damage and a chance to proc armor break to that move. And Napalm Shot already deals a lot of damage.

    On the other hand, Wulfsbane sometimes does an extra 50% damage.

    Admittedly, I am something of an outlier on my extreme apathy towards Wulfsbane. But I also kill an awful lot of them in literally one or two hits even when they have boosted HP, which is something that no Wulfsbane will ever manage. Combos are cool, but there's also benefits to killing people in as few hits as possible, such as avoiding meter gain for your opponent and bypassing some of the more annoying defense SAs.

    The big downside to Primed as cappatacus mentioned is any Painwheel with Tainted Blood. I've also one shot myself more than one time in that situation with reflected damage.

    Edit:
    Wulfsbane might have some advantage here in that he probably does a better job of supplementing your defense, which is also important during rift battles, but Primed has been critical to me in cracking some of the harder defensive nodes, because she's one of a few characters that can deal huge damage and isn't dependent on debuffs in the process.

    Edit 2:
    Added some more arguments for Primed.
     
    #12 fanghoul, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  13. infine

    infine Active Member

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    HOW?!
     
  14. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    My preferred team for the Overcharged modifier is Primed + Peashooter + Harlequin, then Primed just focuses on shots (Napalm Shot and Silent Scope), throws and tear detonation. Basically you throw the enemy when they're near you, and when they're not you take pot shots at them while they try to close in. Then throw them again and repeat. Big Band is a little bit of trick here, but I've gotten better at taking the shot then blocking before he reaches me.

    If you're really worried about not wasting a Silent Scope, it almost always hits when they're standing up, and always hits if you launch them first. Apparently you can also launch people and Napalm Shot them, but I don't really understand the timing for that yet. To minimize hits, don't go for the combo, just launch them. But going for the combo can also deal quiet a bit of damage once you have some tears out and generates two more tears if you remember to end the air combo with a low attack.

    In general it's possible to get a lot of tears out like this, and really build up the +damage% from various things while making a minimum of hits.

    Tear detonation is something you have to learn the timing for, though I guess there's a move to help that now. If I'm detonating tears for bleeds, it's mostly when I've just thrown the enemy, or someone it tagging in, which gives a good window. It's also easy when they're being idiots with charge attacks or spinning the worm, with the bonus you also can get a couple hits from the explosions then. But tears are often more valuable for their +crit damage than for bleed.

    The major weakness of this strategy is Painwheel (as said before) and Cerebella, who's hard to throw and can kill you with Diamonds are Forever pretty easily while you're taking pot shots.

    My Primed has two Napalm Shots, Silent Scope, and Inferno Brigade as moves, with the last slot being either Motor Brigade or Napalm Shower depending on my mood. Napalm Shower is probably the better choice for this strategy, but Motor Brigade has also served me well. Inferno Brigade is questionable, really, but I like it.

    And like I keep saying, if you pump a ton of points into Critical Mass and coins into upping her crit rate with moves, it's entirely possible to kill the second and third person to tag in with two Napalm Shots or one Silent Scope even before you take Primed to diamond. After evolving her it gets ridiculous. I *regularly* deal over 80k damage in one hit with Silent Scope, and my diamond Primed is still only level 44.

    Edit:
    I confess I didn't write this nearly as well the other place I was referencing, now that I've looked it up.

    Edit 2:
    Decided to check my diamond Prime's damage just to add some numbers. She's still not maxed out, with Napalm Shot at level 9 and Silent Scope at Level 6 (I should fix that) and her MA at level 6. Teamed with just Peashooter, she was dealing about 50k damage per Napalm Shot when it crits (with a 50% rate), and cleared 100k with Silent Scope.
     
    #14 fanghoul, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  15. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    I have many experience with this “diamond wall” I’m trying to push into diamond 3. When ever I build up my rift rating I would face an opponent whose boss node is made up of three maxed diamonds or something just as insanely strong(three lvl58 diamonds maybe). 50% one of my fighters die and it’s pretty much game over after a death or 50% nobody dies but the enemy hp is so much my dmg output is just not enough.
    Really there’s no way around it other than old fashioned grind. I saw your collection, you have enough good gold fighter on their way to max gold. Keep at it and get them to diamonds AND grind the diamond a bit more then you will be set.
    Thing on lvling diamonds. It’s not that diamonds lvl easier after you get more. They don’t. But your golds will lvl so much easier it’s like a dream. It’s been three rift season and I maxed a surgeon general and got her to diamond lvl 33 atm. Maxed my meow&furever and she’s waiting on the element essence. My armed forces brainfreeze private dick and xeno double are all sitting at lvl42-45. So they will be my rift defense fighters and second string attackers.
     
  16. TonyPartridge30

    TonyPartridge30 Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the opposite boat. My Meow & Furever needs some more leveling, but I have the light essence and spare gold Fortunes needed to evolve her.
     
  17. Tom Kulczewski

    Tom Kulczewski Active Member

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    Start leveling moves. Leveled moves with good stats > having 20 underleveled diamond fighters with bad moves.
     
  18. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    Just broke my own “diamond wall”. Keep grinding! Because in the end it’s not as hard I’ve imagined.
    My diamond pultergust (lvl51 fs 19.1k) teamed with SG can solo any boss node. It’s more because I don’t have anyone else able to.

    Like many have said focus on making one strong diamond. I mean don’t forget other diamonds but lvl one of them the headrest!
     
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  19. Shambles88

    Shambles88 Member

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    Im so close to get my diamond primed, only a couple more of silver in lvl 40 and done. Sure i have grindend a lot but i hope i can have the extra punch i feel im missing
     
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