1. [2018/06/22]
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Disscussion for the new coin shop

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Reshiram18, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. evilgordo

    evilgordo Member

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    So, now that we've experienced the Cabinet of Curiosities for a couple of days, what's everyone's thoughts?

    I'm hearing lots of different opinions from discord and in-game chat:
    "(Blank) are cheap!"
    "Don't buy (Blank)".
    "Relics from shop are bad, better pulls from 10-1".
    "GOLD KEYS!"
    "I need coins!"

    Personally, I've bought 1 gold BB3 (with decent stats), 3-4 Premiere Relics, 1 Elemental Relic and 1 Chara Relic (oh and I almost bought a gold key). I admit, they were impulse buys...haven't even opened the relics.

    At the end of the day, everything (currently) in the shop can be earned just by playing the game, only it's more random (except for the top 30%+ PF Event rewards). For now, I will save coins for Skill Tree and move upgrades. I will still 'window shop' every couple of hours though.
     
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  2. Reshiram18

    Reshiram18 Active Member

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    I have bought three bronze fighters, ten Premier Relics, and one Top Brass Relic. I did manage to pull a Buzzkill and a Wulfsbane from those ten Premier Relics, but that is higher than average luck that may not happen again from coin bought relics. As a player who consistently hits top 1-10% in every gold character PF, I find that spending 400,000 coins for a gold key is either too expensive or simply unnecessary. As for the bronze/silver keys, I have such a huge stockpile of them that even the thought of buying a bronze/silver key is pointless. My thoughts on moves in the shop are that bronze moves show up way too often for my liking(same for silver moves)and the occasional gold move is either:
    1.Too pricey for what it is when I am trying to save up for the next gold fighter skill tree
    2.The stats on the move are bad and thus not worth buying
    3.I don't need the move itself
    My opinion on bronze fighters is that you should only buy a bronze fighter of a character that you need skill points for right now. I can also recommend picking up a bronze fighter if it is the last material you need for an evolution to silver. The cost of 30,00 coins for a bronze fighter is very affordable and won't take away too much from your savings, which is nice. As for silver fighters, I think 280,000 coins is a bit pricey for something you will only really buy if it is the last silver that you need for evolving a silver into a gold for your next diamond fighter. The one bit of good news for both types of fighters is that you do still get the 40 silver/gold relic shards for buying the fighter, which is nice enough I guess. Overall, I currently plan on not buying anything from Cabinet of Curiosities right now, as I need to save up coins for investing into my next gold skill tree.
     
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  3. infine

    infine Active Member

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    For me primary bottleneck is coins, so cabinet is counter-productive.
    Silvers and bronzes are relic opening byproducts anyway, so no point in buying them other than as evolution fodder which is a questionable idea. Personally I have something around 220 characters, so plenty of fodder, just need to level them up first.

    Silver and bronze moves are just clogging the collection, and I immediately sell them without looking at the stats anyway, so paying money for them is quite insane. I have a bunch of leveled up silver moves around from good old days, but that's it.

    Gold moves are potentially ok, but I've yet to see one I'd like to buy.

    Keys are ok I guess, but I'm only starved for bronze keys because they play nice with coin economy. Gold keys arrive faster than you can reasonably get coins to level up trees and moves. As for silvers - personally there aren't many good silver fighters to invest into.

    Relics... Could be okay I guess, considering premiere relics are dirt cheap, but I've got characters to burn coins on as is, so it's not really a smart buy either.

    The conclusion is, there's never enough coins, and there are better things to spend them on, so cabinet is pretty much for window shopping only.
     
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  4. Beldr447

    Beldr447 Active Member

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    You can get more than 1 million a week, so not really low coins
     
  5. infine

    infine Active Member

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    You can get 5 golden keys a week (2 from PF top 10% and 1 from Accursed Rewards). Upgrading the full outer rim of a gold fighter skill tree (5 keys) alone would cost about 1,5mil. Upgrading one move to lvl 6 would cost about 50k, and to lvl12 - about 900k.

    So for 1 mil a week you can't even really keep up with a decent gold character progression.

    HOWEVER.
    1mil coins is a very low estimate. There was an old (circa 1.5) thread with calculations that totaled to 1,5-2,5M coins per week depending on whether you score top 100 in medici PFs and sell moves (and do basic and advanced dailies which is a bloody stupid grind). BUT. It was long time ago so it did not account for the new master difficulty, increased amount of dailies, accursed experiments and I think a couple of new weeklies (not sure). I'd guess you can do 3-3,5M coins a week which would sort of allow you to barely keep up with all the gold keys you can get, but definitely not gold, silver and bronze if you decide to invest properly into moves.
     
  6. Beldr447

    Beldr447 Active Member

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    Well, with luck you can get an extra key from treasure node on AE.

    Also what do you mean keep up with the keys? are you talking of maxing out gold trees the sec you get them? Because that does not account for the extra wait of having to get skill points
     
  7. infine

    infine Active Member

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    "Keep up with the keys" means using them at the same rate they arrive. So you get 5 keys per week - you spend 5 keys per week. As for skillpoints, they are not the bottleneck for me. I mean I currently have around 1-1,5K skillpoints on the older characters and around 100k gold. Skillpoints come relatively easy, they aren't bottlenecked by the amount of events per week. They are more of a question of having SP fodder, which is not an issue for the older characters. Like I said my personal bottleneck is gold - I have loads of skillpoints and enough fodder for more (except Ms.Fortune because she's new and I didn't buy her relics), a decent amount of keys (except bronze) but no coins.
     
  8. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    Personally i think there's just too many bronze/silver specials clogging up his inventory.

    I'm Player Level 64, i never keep any bronze/silver moves i get and sell them when i get around to it. There's absolutely no point at which i'd buy one of them from the shop, when i already have at least one gold version of every move from dailies.
    Maybe phase bronze ans silver moves out of his inventory when the player reaches a certain player level?

    Even if there was like 4-5 gold moves on each of his rotations you'd still have to be lucky enough to get one with good stats in the first place, so i don't think this would fundamentely make them too easy to acquire, not even considering the fact it's heavily gated by RNG anyway in other ways (Is the move for a character you want, is it the move you want, does it have good stats). Having to hope for him to even have a gold move in the first place, especially with how rare they seem to be makes it a bit annoying.

    Aside from those i enjoy the rest of what he offers. While i'm personally all capped off on keys, it's nice that he sells em. Relics are also great to spend coins on. And being able to buy certain bronze and silver fighters is really good too if you're looking for fodder! (though i'm still looking for a bronze/silver peacock for that sweet diamond...)

    So yeah, overall fantastic addition to the game, but as a long time player, bronze and silver moves clogging up his inventory is annoying.
     
  9. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    I've been liking the coin shop. I've bought 4 bronze Ms. Fortunes, because I need to the fighter points and it's a lot cheaper than buying a bunch of character relics, which I wouldn't be able to do for another couple weeks anyway. I also got one gold move that had decent stats.

    It's been fun to poke around in it. I'm inclined to agree with people that think it has too many bronze and silver moves though. It's maybe a good thing that it's not constantly filled with things that I want, but being filled with things I'd never want also doesn't seem ideal.
     
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  10. Gylfie

    Gylfie Member

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    I'm actually glad it doesn't sell gold fighters. Imagine the chaos that would ensue if you could simply stroll over and buy an armed forces or buzzkill.
     
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  11. Shambles88

    Shambles88 Member

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    For now im just hunting for gold moves with good stats and thats it. I have a 260 fighters, so im not trying to get new ones for the moment. but it could still be usefull to quickly get the fighters need for the evolution
     
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  12. Luke

    Luke Active Member

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    After buying almost every bronze fighter and any relic I pass by I can say with certainty I will ONLY buy relic from now on. Reason 1 I don’t log in often enough to drain all my coins on relics 2 relics have a chance for gold and I think I’m paying a decent price for that chance.
     
  13. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    I think it really depends on what you want to do. If you're trying to just build up your roster, then it absolutely makes sense to focus on Premier relics.

    If you're like me, and just want to work on a particular character, then buying that character is probably the right choice. I can get three bronze Ms. Fortunes for the price of a single Character Relic, which will most likely only give me one bronze Ms. Fortune. And for about the price of 3 character relics, I could outright buy the Silver Purrfect Dark I want, and it would typically take a lot more than 3 character relics to get the exact silver that I wanted.

    The only thing I'm missing out on that way is the opportunity to get gold characters. And I really don't need a gold Ms. Fortune. I have 2 out of 3 of them already, and I'm not convinced that Hack and Splash is really worth the the investment I'd have to make to get her right away.

    But that's just my case. Buying character/premier/elemental relics can also make sense depending on what you want to do.
     
  14. BallotBoxer

    BallotBoxer Active Member

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    I think I'm addicted to buying Premier Relics (50K). At first, I despaired with the first 6 being bronze. Then the next two were Princess Pride Parasoul and G.I. Jazz Big Band. Knowing that was the equivalent of being struck by lightning twice in a row, I've taken a break from buying the relics (give a chance for my Canopy coins to recover).
     
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  15. Luke

    Luke Active Member

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    I have to confess the relic buying is talking a toll and with me getting excited with leveling moves I’m penniless as of now.
     
  16. TonyPartridge30

    TonyPartridge30 Active Member

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    I'm trying to limit myself to getting only one Premiere Relic per day from the Coin Shop.

    Btw, has anyone seen a gold fighter in the coin shop?
     
  17. Reshiram18

    Reshiram18 Active Member

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    I have not seen any gold fighters in the shop myself. Additionally, the wiki page on Cabinet of Curiosities does not have gold fighters listed on the table of items.
     
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  18. Gylfie

    Gylfie Member

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    If there were gold fighters in the shop, pretty soon everyone would have buzzkills and wulfsbanes on offense and armed forces, dread locks, and untouchables on defense.
     
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  19. evilgordo

    evilgordo Member

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    So, now the Treasure tab is open!
    Thoughts?

    Some very unique items available for sure.

    What I find interesting is the overlap between Trinkets and Treasure:
    Gold Moves and Diamond keys are for sale in both.

    Gold Moves = 80k cc or 50 RC
    Diamond keys = 1M cc or 1250 RC

    What is the 'true' cc value of 1 RC?

    Going by the gold move conversion: 1RC = 1600 cc
    making the Diamond key 1250RC = 2Mcc
    but
    Diamond key conversion: 1 RC = 800cc
    Makes gold moves 50RC = 40Kcc

    I know we can't buy Essence in the Trinket side, but what do you think is the fairer value of 1 Essence in terms of cc? 1.2M or 2.4M?

    So, in the Trinket tab, are we getting a deal on Diamonds keys or are we over paying for gold moves ?
     
    #39 evilgordo, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  20. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    tl;dr: The math makes me think we're getting a discount on diamond keys

    For the price of an essence in canopy coins, we might be able to approximate it from the price of elemental relics. It's 150,000cc for a elemental relic, which is most often acting as 25 shards + a slightly weird pull from a premier relic, so subtracting the cost of a premier relic, it's something like 100,000cc for the shards. Looking at the drop rate, it's on average 38.5 shards per relic. That makes it about 2.6 million canopy coins for an elemental essence, so 2.4 million doesn't seem too far off.

    If you wanted to be more generous, you could treat the elemental relic as a character relic + shards, because elemental relics have a small chance of getting a unique character, which gives you a price in the ball park of 1.3 million canopy coins for an essence, which is also a surprisingly good fit, but this assumption seems more questionable to me? Picking the element of your characters just isn't as useful as picking who they are.

    So according to this, either diamond keys should be of equal value to essences or should be less valuable. We might want to look at the relative scarcity of diamond keys vs elemental essences to better understand the ratio. You need 3 essences to upgrade to a diamond character, and as we've discussed elsewhere, you can get 15 of those in 4 months, even without being a star player. You just have to be able to make progression in the weekend event and be able to finish master mode in daily events. It's a little time consuming, but not impossible for a more recent player

    On the other hand, to fully upgrade a natural diamond character, you need 10 Diamond keys if I'm not mistaken. If you're in the 1% of players, you'll get this in 10 weeks, or sooner if you buy some from the shop. But most people won't have enough characters to even close to being able to do that, and it really doesn't matter how much they play, it just takes months to get a large strong roster. So if you're a Gold tier player, you're going to have to probably double that time, to something like 20 weeks (or 5 months) because you're buying them all from the shop with one sort of coin or the other.

    So essences seem like they're a lot easier to get than keys for most but not all people, and should be cheaper. But either way, it would make the most sense to me that we're getting a discount on diamond keys somewhere.
     
    #40 fanghoul, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018

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