Collection Should flat Atk/HP-Bonuses on Specials and BBs be removed?

[Ryouhi]

I feel they're redundant, seeing as we have %-Atk/HP bonuses, which are VASTLY superior to flat bonuses, outside of maybe level 1-5 of a bronze fighter

I understand some stats are always going to be better than others and they have to, so we don't get "perfect" specials/BBs too quickly, but other "bad" stats still feel like they at least add something.
Getting 50 Atk, when your fighter has 4k doesn't mean anything.

 

[Snow]

I dont think they should be removed, but rather buffed :3

It's pointless having 50 atk but 100 atk or +50/75 to each level is more sufficient imo :3

 

[Ryouhi]

I dont think they should be removed, but rather buffed :3

It's pointless having 50 atk but 100 atk or +50/75 to each level is more sufficient imo :3

Still, even then it would be outscaled by %-stats.

So on level 1 gold moves it's 6% Atk or 30 Atk flat. even if you only have 1k Attack, which is pretty low the percentage one is still gonna be twice as strong!

My Painwheel with my highest Attack stat has 4.8k Attack so 6% are 288 Atk, vs 30 flat.
One of my weaker main fighters, a pure tank Resonant Evil has 2.4k Attack currently, so with 6% that's still 144 Atk vs 30 flat.

They'd need to MASSIVELY buff flat bonuses to make them worth it, but at that point it becomes even more redundant, because we already have % stats to do that.

So they're either flat out bad in comparison to %-stats, or you need to buff them a lot to make them worth picking over %-stats, but then why not just have just the % ones?

 

[Wulfden]

Still, even then it would be outscaled by %-stats.

So on level 1 gold moves it's 6% Atk or 30 Atk flat. even if you only have 1k Attack, which is pretty low the percentage one is still gonna be twice as strong!

My Painwheel with my highest Attack stat has 4.8k Attack so 6% are 288 Atk, vs 30 flat.
One of my weaker main fighters, a pure tank Resonant Evil has 2.4k Attack currently, so with 6% that's still 144 Atk vs 30 flat.

They'd need to MASSIVELY buff flat bonuses to make them worth it, but at that point it becomes even more redundant, because we already have % stats to do that.

So they're either flat out bad in comparison to %-stats, or you need to buff them a lot to make them worth picking over %-stats, but then why not just have just the % ones?

Been feeling a lot for this sort of thing!

Why have flat bonuses when the %rate bonuses will just be so much broader! (You can also imagine my grumbling when I get a gold move with a flat rate 30 attack when I have another that's like at 9% RN!)

I feel like if we do have those attack/defense/hp bonuses, maybe we could make em different? Like, replace them with certain things like on the unit's upgrade nodes like "5% less damage" and maybe something like "Chip recovery %4" so when you're tagged out you heal slightly more to have further emphasis on that?

Just anything more than as you said, flat rate bonuses being, well, flat!

 

[Ryouhi]

Been feeling a lot for this sort of thing!

Why have flat bonuses when the %rate bonuses will just be so much broader! (You can also imagine my grumbling when I get a gold move with a flat rate 30 attack when I have another that's like at 9% RN!)

I feel like if we do have those attack/defense/hp bonuses, maybe we could make em different? Like, replace them with certain things like on the unit's upgrade nodes like "5% less damage" and maybe something like "Chip recovery %4" so when you're tagged out you heal slightly more to have further emphasis on that?

Just anything more than as you said, flat rate bonuses being, well, flat!

Exactly, getting the flat versions of Atk/HP right now is just frustrating as they really don't add anything and you know there's a better version of this stat.

Like you say, i think theres more interesting bonuses they could add to the mix, like chip damage recovery, chip damage recovery speed, etc.

Also i've been wondering whether crit damage is worth it at all compared to Atk%.
Since the latter will increase all damage, even that of crits as well, while crit damage can only increase a maximum of 50% of attacks due to crit chance cap.
Though i haven't looked at it closely enough to see if Crit chance and Atk% is truly strictly better than crit chance and crit damage.

Perhaps crit chance and damage could also be rolled into one singlew stat. So it increases both chance and damage of crits at the same time.

 

[Wulfden]

Exactly, getting the flat versions of Atk/HP right now is just frustrating as they really don't add anything and you know there's a better version of this stat.

Like you say, i think theres more interesting bonuses they could add to the mix, like chip damage recovery, chip damage recovery speed, etc.

Also i've been wondering whether crit damage is worth it at all compared to Atk%.
Since the latter will increase all damage, even that of crits as well, while crit damage can only increase a maximum of 50% of attacks due to crit chance cap.
Though i haven't looked at it closely enough to see if Crit chance and Atk% is truly strictly better than crit chance and crit damage.

Perhaps crit chance and damage could also be rolled into one singlew stat. So it increases both chance and damage of crits at the same time.

Very interesting point as well! I have a lot of moves with Crit Damage, so, perhaps I can do a little research sometime to fully figure that out if Attack itself alone is fine to boost the crit damage ANYWAY (Because then if that's the case, redundancy is rather the theme here!)

I imagine on one side of the argument is that Crit Damage is mainly for units like Parasoul who has to rely on crits anyway, so that way you are structurally like a glass cannon hoping the crits hit and do much more damage than your base attack stat

(which fundamentally is situational to I suppose, fighting tougher enemies at a lower advantage?)

I myself is a Crit rate fiend who always HAS to have a Crit rate for my fighters, but the crit damage aspect vs the attack bonus may just be something to look into...!

 

[Ryouhi]

Very interesting point as well! I have a lot of moves with Crit Damage, so, perhaps I can do a little research sometime to fully figure that out if Attack itself alone is fine to boost the crit damage ANYWAY (Because then if that's the case, redundancy is rather the theme here!)

I imagine on one side of the argument is that Crit Damage is mainly for units like Parasoul who has to rely on crits anyway, so that way you are structurally like a glass cannon hoping the crits hit and do much more damage than your base attack stat

(which fundamentally is situational to I suppose, fighting tougher enemies at a lower advantage?)

I myself is a Crit rate fiend who always HAS to have a Crit rate for my fighters, but the crit damage aspect vs the attack bonus may just be something to look into...!

I suppose one could always STACK %atk and crit damage, but stacking 3 types of atk-type stats is pretty dangerous since you need to forgoe defensive stats then

 

[NamelesstheBeardless]

I mean I guess a possible change would be something along the lines of like flat atk increases is more scaled to the quality tier of the move? So that the flat increase on gold moves are a little more scaled to gold fighters? Idk how much this would help (and it would probably be hell at bronze level pf come to think of it) but it might second handedly assist those who want their bronze and silver fighters on a more even playing ground to gold, seeing as how attack% on them don't give them nearly the same as a natural gold

So I guess my answer is don't remove them, but tweak them accordingly maybe?

 

[Boboflesserdoom]

No real opinion flat bonus vs %, except that flat is good for bronze while percent is better for all else. Flat HP isn't useful, except at low levels of bronze.

However, I think Element Penalty and Element Bonus should be rolled into one stat: Elemental Affinity.
Additionally, Element Penalty wouldn't be useless on Light and Dark characters.