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Fights Blockbusters shouldn't be so strong

TonyPartridge30

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Blockbusters are undoubtedly cool moves, and useful for dealing out massive amounts of damage. However, I feel like they often deal too much damage; especially the unblockables. Like, I've seen cases of a character dealing out 75-100% damage on an enemy of comparable combat rating through use of one BB. That's crazy, and kind of makes the unblockable BBs a crutch, in my opinion. Like, no matter how skillful you are in you combo chaining, timing, and use of special moves, an enemy AI can just charge up that unblockable BB and kill you in one shot, depending on the character/BB.

I feel like the fact that unblockable BBs are unblockable is valuable enough. I don't think they should deal so much damage. I feel like unblockable BBs should have their damage reduced by 25%. Or, they should introduce ways that they can fail; I've seen in the hints that your supposed to be "careful" when using an unblockable BBs, but I can activate one when no character is on screen and it will wait for that character. Like, that's really cheap. If I activate an unblockable BB when nobody is around, it should just fail. I should be rewarded for having good timing in my usage and punished for bad timing like everything else. I've also heard that being too far away can render and unblockable BB useless; nope, this isn't the case. Whether it's a throw-based unblockable BB or a ranged one, using it anywhere on the stage grants success. I think throw-based unblockable BBs should be used in throw range, and should fail otherwise. Or something; I'm just spitballing here. Unblockable BBs feel cheap and its especially annoying when I am doing really well in a fight against a much higher rated character, but then they charge up their unblockable BB and make all that work meaningless.
 

Ryouhi

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I think normal blockbusters are okay the way they are, because you can block most of them and evade the few you can't.
BB3s however are just frustrating, especially in prize fights now that the AI gets statbonuses from equipped moves.

With how often people seem to stack %-Defense and %-HP you can't kill a fighter before they hcrage their BB3 at least once if not twice before they're dead.
This sucks, especially since with rising streak enemies already get like twice your FS-level, so one BB3 will oneshot even tanks depending on the enemy...
 

TonyPartridge30

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I think normal blockbusters are okay the way they are, because you can block most of them and evade the few you can't.
BB3s however are just frustrating, especially in prize fights now that the AI gets statbonuses from equipped moves.

With how often people seem to stack %-Defense and %-HP you can't kill a fighter before they hcrage their BB3 at least once if not twice before they're dead.
This sucks, especially since with rising streak enemies already get like twice your FS-level, so one BB3 will oneshot even tanks depending on the enemy...
Yeah, I can agree to this. Knowing when to block or evade for tier 1 and 2 BBs is important, so I could stand for those to left alone. But I really want to see some change to tier 3 BBs. You shouldn't be rewarded for just turtling until your meter charges up. And you're right about higher FS enemies; with the disparity between the defense and HP of a 10.0K character and a 6.2K character (my max), BB3s make it so that even if I am super on-point with my timing, it's pretty much a guaranteed loss. Even tagging in a throwaway character is often moot, because at high streaks in Prize Fights, the entire enemy team is comprised of characters with almost 2x the FS of your best, and they also have BB3s. Super annoying.
 

ThanatosDK

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The issue with BB3 is that all the difficulty against them is over once you've hit end game.

The climb to endgame is tough and you have to pick your battles and teams right, it's even harder of a climb for new players considering they have to go against units with high stat bonuses.
If anything there should be a limit on the upper level of FP you will be matched against vs. your FP.
Since score is equal to both teams FP*multipier it should remain balanced in earning score relative to team strength.
It's unfortunate that teams with a total of 8k+ will go against 25k+ teams and I hope it will happen less for players starting out.
 

missingno

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If you're fighting a fighter at 2x your FS you shouldn't be able to survive an unblockable super move that takes more than twice as long to charge as a BB1. You're fighting at a disadvantage. Don't expect to survive a super move from someone twice as strong as you. Using competitive Pokémon as an analogy, that's like hoping to survive a Hydro Pump from a lvl 100 modest Blastoise with 252 SpAtk EVs with a lvl <75 Pokémon. It's not gonna happen, and you shouldn't expect to.
Then the game should not be making you fight battles that are literally unwinnable. But that's exactly what PF does. It's not like you can just choose a winnable match.

Pokemon never puts you in that situation to begin with. SGM forces it on you.
 

missingno

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Are you seriously accusing us all of lying when we say we frequently do run into cases where your entire team gets OHKOd three times in a row? It absolutely happens. Please don't try to gaslight me here.

The game is meant to be challenging for everyone, and it is.
Unwinnable fights are not challenging. A challenge is something that's winnable.
 
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TonyPartridge30

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I'd recommend that you pay attention to the stats on the moves you're upgrading and invest in some HP or Def% moves. More survivability is good for everyone. If you're mostly upgrading moves with offensive stats and neglecting your defensive stats then that's your choice, but you should know the risks you're taking.
When RNG dictates what moves you get and what stats are with those moves, there is a limit to how much you can invest in any particular stat.
 
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Ryouhi

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What if BB3s actaully had SOME form of drawback?
The only negative thing they have going on is that they take a bit longer to charge up, but (i think?) the AI gets much more charges for their BBs for getting hit anyway, so that's kinda moot.

Currently there's practically no form of strategy you have to use for BB3s, other than maybe "should i keep it for when the next enemy tags in".

So some drawbacks i could see being added to them would be:
  • Using a BB3 drains ALL other Blockbusters' charges as well (perhaps even those of tagged-out fighters - maybe to a lesser degree?)
  • You can only equip one BB3 per Team, instead of having one per enemy, so you don't get oneshot 3 times in a row because the AI has 3 BB3s charged at once
  • Putting a decently long cooldown until another BB3 (or any Blockbuster perhaps) can be used again
Adding any of these would make you actually THINK before using a BB3 - Do i use my strongest move now and deal with the Cooldowns or whatever other drawback or do i keep it for that tough enemy that'll come up in a bit?

Perhaps these drawbacks could be a bit too severe, but i'm just spitballing.
Still, i strongly feel if the power or the unblockability of BB3s isn't going anywhere, there should be drawbacks to incentivice more strategic usage of them, because currently there's zero decisionmaking regarding them currently.
 

Ryouhi

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Seriously I want to know what you're doing that's getting you one shot by every BB3 in the game. If you're fighting at a significant stat disadvantage, of course BB3s are going to feel like getting hit by a train. If you're at equal level with your defense nodes unlocked then you should not be getting killed 100-0 by almost anyone unless they have significant atk investment, and that's not the fault of BB3s that you're getting killed.

I would love to see you fight an Armed Forces from Channing, Moist, Nateville, or me. BB3s barely scratch them, and now you want to make them basically obsolete. Enjoy your timeouts for anyone that doesn't have a projectile BB3 with peashooter support.

The only time I get 100-0 by BB3s is in bronze PF where I have not upgraded any of the HP trees on any of my fighters, and those deaths are totally my fault for neglecting a very important stat, not the fault of the BB3s.

Painwheel PF is right around the corner, which I'm sure will bring a whole lot of new people here to complain about how broken BB3s are.
Because after i get a streak in Prize fights the enemy will have more than twice my FS, which leaves even my Resonant Evil BB with high Defense almost dead after one BB3.
I'm not sure how it works for you guys at the level cap, but i'm around FS of 3000-6000 with my best fighters against enemies up to 10-12k FS and BB3 basically oneshot everything other than the most tanky fighters.
 

Athletinerd48

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Thats the kind of info that I can work with. Out of curiosity, what is the total FS of the teams you're using? Are you using only one of your strong fighters and 2 XP sponges or are you running 2-3 strong fighters? This is kind of important because depending on how you're building your teams, you might actually be lowering your chances of success.

You should still be able to carry your teams through fights if you're only using that one 6k fighter and 2 weaker ones just to soak up XP. It just requires a bit of playing the system to your advantage and playing really well.

If you run a 6k FS fighter and say 2 xp sponges at around 1.5k FS then you'd have a total FS of around 9k. At max multiplier (5x) you have a potential of running into teams of around 24k FS. That's about 2 maxed lvl 50 gold fighters or 3 moderately upgraded lvl 50 fighters. Lowering your overall team FS will increase your chances of having winnable matchups by lowering the maximum potential team FS that your opponent's could have.

Sure it doesn't exactly fix the issue you're having with being 100-0 by significantly stronger opponent BB3s, but by lowering your team's overall FS, it in turn lowers your opponent's FS meaning it's more likely that the matchups will be winnable, and that's as good as you can get until you get your fighters closer to the same level and FS as your opponents to make matches easier for you.

Once you get to real high level play where you're constantly running into teams with 50% defense fighters, you'll realize that BB3s aren't broken. They'll take out a moderate sized chunk of HP and you'll wish they did more damage. Lvl 50 armed forces with 50% defense and an armor taunt will become the bane of your existence, but that's attributed more to the fact that defense's and armor's damage mitigation ideally shouldn't stack together additively like they do atm.

That's good info, I've been doing something like this at high streaks, but now I'll definitely be more mindful. Plus, need to get my new Wulfsbane upgraded (very lucky with my relic draw this morning!).
 

Poringsmasher

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Though I'm not quite at the "high level of play" I have some trees maxed on a few and can do just fine. That said, I still think BB3s are a bad design. Just them being unblockable alone should be the incentive to use them, but on top of that they do the most damage, are unpunishable in any way, and idiot proof cause you can hit the button at any time or distance and it always works.

What Keebs was saying is true, once you've progressed more they won't be as much of an issue, but I still think they need some tweaking.

Aside from that it's also a pain when I would LOVE to make a Armed Forces super tank but despite sinking all theronite into that box every time it pops up I still haven't gotten it (or any other box exclusive for that matter) so I'll never be able to make that super tank that can shrug off BB3s quite as well. Sorry, that was only slightly off topic to this post but damn this game hates me =P
 
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Veracroz

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Lvl 50 armed forces with 50% defense and an armor taunt will become the bane of your existence.

Really listen what keebs says, it already is a pain Armed cerebella, whitout BB3s all the roaster would be in disadvantage against unflinching plus defenseless cause even if you can defende yourself, her grabs would still be unblockable

Just hang in there, grind, it's like he says, once you are at de same FS BB3s are not instant K.O. (That doesn't mean in any way easy)
 

BrolaireOfAsstora

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Most blockbusters feel good to use in a combo and feel both fair to use and to be hit by, though the bb3s feel cheap. It feels almost more like a punishment for playing well, rather than something you deserve to eat for slipping up slightly. They ruin your teams no matter what, and unless you're a god-tier player, you're most likely just losing your streak in pfs because of it. Doesn't help that when you're able to use them, they usually won't kill because you're fighting against a higher tiered opponent. Would increasing their costs so that you can only use them if you have a maxed out skill point tree, and they take up so much space they prevent you from using other moves make them balanced?
 
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Ryouhi

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Really listen what keebs says, it already is a pain Armed cerebella, whitout BB3s all the roaster would be in disadvantage against unflinching plus defenseless cause even if you can defende yourself, her grabs would still be unblockable

Just hang in there, grind, it's like he says, once you are at de same FS BB3s are not instant K.O. (That doesn't mean in any way easy)
It may very well be balanced at max level, but then they still need to balance it for early and midgame so to speak.

Just because they are balanced at max level, doesnt mean they are balanced when pitted against fighters with twice your FS like in PFs when you aren't max level fighters.

If BB3s become much easier to deal with later in the game then the difficulty curve of the game is all out of whack
 

Vex

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What level moves are we talking about? I imagine the end game is balanced around level 12 and 15 moves.
 

Veracroz

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It may very well be balanced at max level, but then they still need to balance it for early and midgame so to speak.

Just because they are balanced at max level, doesnt mean they are balanced when pitted against fighters with twice your FS like in PFs when you aren't max level fighters.

If BB3s become much easier to deal with later in the game then the difficulty curve of the game is all out of whack

That's why I said, they are not instant K.O. But that doesn't mean easy, because here is the thing, can you take out a opponent of your same FS? If the answer is yes, then the game is balanced

The moment you face and opponent higher of your FS in theory you should loose but if you win, the reward is XP and the game recognizes that with the plus % of longshot
But that doesn't mean if a FS twice your FS beats you, it's unfair, it's meant to happen and because of the nature of blocking the enemy doesn't have a way to exploit your defense by a high or low attack it just punishes you if you aren't blocking and by that wouldn't it be hard to be in the other side? How could you win vs a computer that only

You would have to ensure that some attack could damage them even if they are blocking cause that's when it would be unfair that a team with half your FS beats you even thought you are clearly meant to Win maybe an unblockeable move?
 

Veracroz

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What level moves are we talking about? I imagine the end game is balanced around level 12 and 15 moves.
With a gold move level 6 is enough in a level 50 fighter with the skill tree upgraded
 

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The only Big Bang 3 that stands out to me as being difficult to overcome at low and high FP play is Parasoul's Inferno Brigade. All other BB3 hit me for half hp, but even at no stacks this one is a one shot against all my units.
 
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Block busters are fine, it's this stupid PF Modifier that is ridiculous. For any player without at least one Maxed fighter it's literally impossible to maintain a streak due to having to deal with (usually) 3 BB3 from opponents with higher FS than you which charge after like 5 freaking hits. I have never hated anything more than I do this weeks PF in my life. I don't know who thought it would be a good idea but they need to seriously rethink this.
 
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