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Characters Brainstorming on how to make Lonesome Lenny more useful

Ryouhi

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Almost every Peacock in PFs you come across will have either a combo of Argus Agony and Impending Doom or Good Fellows for their Blockbusters, but almost noone ever uses Lonesome Lenny.

And if you actually try it out it becomes pretty obvious why that is - while it packs a good punch, it's hard to actually properly hit something with it. Especially compared to Peacock's other BBs.
With Argus Agony you can combo it beautifully with Impending Doom and/or any of her George Specials and works at any range.

In comparison Lonesome Lenny is set up directly where Peacock stands, it isn't a guaranteed hit, it takes a long time for him to explode, in the worst case scenario you can even blow up yourself and it's harder to combo into it.

I feel there's much too many drawbacks to good ol' Lenny (i mean even self damage?) and he should be looked again to get him up to snuff compared to other BBs.

To that end i wanted to collect some ideas on how to make Lenny better overall in this thread and i'd appreciate any and all ideas you guys can come up with.

To start off, some more simply ideas from me:
  • Remove self-damage - pretty self-explanitory, since it's the only ability that can even do that and it's already hard enough to properly utilize as is
  • While Lenny is being moved by attacks, it's only by the basic ground combo, dash attack and swipes, the latter two which aren't recommended to be used since you'll just knock them out of Lennys radius.
    I'd suggest that Lenny also be moved by Specials and BBs, since i remember in OG SG Lenny being able to combo well with Argus for example.
    Only being able to rely on the short ground combo makes it hard to keep an enemy in place long enough, since we don't have proper mixups or anything that would assure keeping tzhem there like in OG SG.
  • Not sure about this one, but i remember Lenny's explosion timer being shortened when he was hit, which i'm not sure is happening in mobile, that could be an option to make it easier to line up a combo with Lenny.
  • Making Lennys explosion remote controlled by using trhe BB button a second time
Suggestions by others:
  • Add a stun to Lenny (BrolaireOfAsstora) / Add Damage on set-down + chance for Stun (Tetarti)

Anyway, what do you guys think?
Is he fine as is and i should just git gud? Or do you have any suggestions to make him better yourself?
 
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BrolaireOfAsstora

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Self damage needs to be removed like a talkative person at a movie theater, for sure. Another thing that could be changed is maybe on planting, you stun your opponent for a while allowing Lenny to do something? Actually that sounds op.
 
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Ryouhi

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Self damage needs to be removed like a talkative person at a movie theater, for sure. Another thing that could be changed is maybe on planting, you stun your opponent for a while allowing Lenny to do something? Actually that sounds op.
I think a stun would be too strong and not fit that well for the ability, but some way to make it easier to actually hit with the dang thing is definitely needed.

I just noticed Lenny actually does move on hits, but only for the basic ground combo. I believe in OG SG it was possible to move him with things like Argus too though, which doesn't work on mobile. This would be great synergy cause you could push both the enemy and lenny into the corner of the screen together.
Same with Specials, they don't interact with Lenny.
Also, every hit seems to knock him back the same distance, unlike enemies. For example this makes using swipes and such a bad idea, since you'll knock the enemy right out of Lennys damage radius.

I also think i remember something about Lenny's explosion timer being shortened when you hit him, but i'm not sure if that's happening on mobile (i'm bad at accurately counting lol) and testing is hard without blowing myself up - but that could be an option too, to make it easier to hit, by reducing the time it takes for him to blow up.
 

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Maybe make placing Lenny down do damage and have a change of causing stun, but make it so it doesn't last long enough to keep them stunned until the explosion happens. Also, I agree about the self-damage. It can work in OG SG but I don't think it's good for Mobile.
 
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Ryouhi

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Maybe make placing Lenny down do damage and have a change of causing stun, but make it so it doesn't last long enough to keep them stunned until the explosion happens. Also, I agree about the self-damage. It can work in OG SG but I don't think it's good for Mobile.
Hmm with an ability like Lenny making the stun only chance-based - not sure if i'm a fan of it personally, since if it doesn't proc it's still just as hard to hit as usually.
Though if it stuns, making it rather short could indeed be good enough to set up a proper combo.

And i agree, i OG SG there were more options in terms of movement to move out of it and more ways to set up combos outside of melee combos, so self-damage wasn't so big a deal, but on mobile options are a bit too limited to warrant it.
 

BrolaireOfAsstora

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I think a stun would be too strong and not fit that well for the ability, but some way to make it easier to actually hit with the dang thing is definitely needed.

I just noticed Lenny actually does move on hits, but only for the basic ground combo. I believe in OG SG it was possible to move him with things like Argus too though, which doesn't work on mobile. This would be great synergy cause you could push both the enemy and lenny into the corner of the screen together.
Same with Specials, they don't interact with Lenny.
Also, every hit seems to knock him back the same distance, unlike enemies. For example this makes using swipes and such a bad idea, since you'll knock the enemy right out of Lennys damage radius.

I also think i remember something about Lenny's explosion timer being shortened when you hit him, but i'm not sure if that's happening on mobile (i'm bad at accurately counting lol) and testing is hard without blowing myself up - but that could be an option too, to make it easier to hit, by reducing the time it takes for him to blow up.
Increasing distance with hits is actually a good idea. Specials could move him more than anything else which is nice. Tossing out a George and sending Lenny flying into a corner would be cool I think, and the synergy with argus would be great. Something else just occurred to me though, does tricking the AI into blocking an impending doom also hit Lenny? If it does, I feel like a combo could be worked out in there.
 

Ryouhi

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Increasing distance with hits is actually a good idea. Specials could move him more than anything else which is nice. Tossing out a George and sending Lenny flying into a corner would be cool I think, and the synergy with argus would be great. Something else just occurred to me though, does tricking the AI into blocking an impending doom also hit Lenny? If it does, I feel like a combo could be worked out in there.
As long as hits would move Lenny as far as the enemy hit it could work well. But the air juggle would still be off limits since it sends enemies flying across the screen and you obviously wouldn't hit Lenny that way.
Combining Lenny with specials could make for some interesting comboes however.
 

BrolaireOfAsstora

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As long as hits would move Lenny as far as the enemy hit it could work well. But the air juggle would still be off limits since it sends enemies flying across the screen and you obviously wouldn't hit Lenny that way.
Combining Lenny with specials could make for some interesting comboes however.
Right. Lenny into George into grab into boom would be FUN.
 

safr

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Very surprised Argus still doesn't move Lenny. This is a crucial flaw and IMO completely invalidates Lenny until fixed.
 
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TonyPartridge30

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Pretty sure hitting Lenny makes him blow faster. Can't recall how it happened, but I placed a Lenny just before the enemy activated a special move (or extensive combo), and Lenny detonated practically immediately. KO'd both of us. Luckily I had reserve fighters and the enemy AI did not.
 

Ryouhi

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Pretty sure hitting Lenny makes him blow faster. Can't recall how it happened, but I placed a Lenny just before the enemy activated a special move (or extensive combo), and Lenny detonated practically immediately. KO'd both of us. Luckily I had reserve fighters and the enemy AI did not.
i'm bad at noticing the difference, i tried this out a few times in the test room.
I think the normal timer for Lenny is like 6 seconds and if you hit it a bunch it goes to ~5 seconds or so.

So i don't really feel ,like that helps at all.

And Specials and other BBs don't hit Lenny either.
 

Ryouhi

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Any chance on getting another look at old Lenny boy?
IThe times i have seen anyone use it i can count on one hand. His use is too limited without properly comboing with Argus like he does in the original.
 

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I think the self-damage is fun and a good oddball mechanic, like Faust bombs in Guilty Gear. It gives him a high skill feeling when you manage to combo into him.

However, I'd love if he could be moved by BBs and Specials, so it could be comboed into if you know what you're doing.
 
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infine

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Rachel-style wind meter and how it worked on George in BB:CS. With Ms. Fortune controls.

I mean George in CS was, for all intents and purposes, basically Lenny. Sans self damage.

Or, more appropriate for Peacock, moving Lenny with The Hole Idea with 3 possible destinations ringlet spike style.
 
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Ryouhi

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I think the self-damage is fun and a good oddball mechanic, like Faust bombs in Guilty Gear. It gives him a high skill feeling when you manage to combo into him.

However, I'd love if he could be moved by BBs and Specials, so it could be comboed into if you know what you're doing.
I would have no problem with self damage if you could push him around with specials/BBs
 

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Well, in the original Skullgirls game, you can combo an Impending Doom, Lonesome Lenny and Argus Agony to push Lenny with Argus's projectiles, and explode un front of te opponent, and a random object falling from above. If the combo goes good, it can make a lot of damage for the opponent.
 

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Diony

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There's any chance to do something thing like this? Argus Agony + Lonesome Lenny.
Or it would be OP?