Other Convert evolved character to lower tier

[Dusty00]

If the game can automatically convert evolved characters to max level of the appropriate tiers TEMPORARILY, then it would solve many problems. Key here is that this character card will retain its current status after the match.

Example: When doing Bronze prize fight, using your lv57 Diamond tier evolved Parasoul Shelter will automatically convert her to a level 30 Bronze using the move loadout you have on her. Use her in Silver PF, she’s converted to lv40 Silver. And in gold PF she’s a lv50 gold. All using the same character.

One problem this could solve is rift maps. You are in Gold2 rank and don’t have many diamond characters? No problem, because ALL matches against gold rank will convert all diamond characters into lv50 golds. This would make the map possible to clear. Of course, your attacker’s are also converted to lv50 gold, so you can’t use your 3 diamond characters to cheat through it.

Want to do the “Show me your moves” Pf but you’ve evolved most of your characters to gold and don’t have Silvers? No worry, you can now use those favorite characters.

Want to clear story mode where you must have silver Beowulf but you evolved your only copy of WrestlerX to gold? No problem, now it converts to Silver lv40.

Now the restriction is that this only applies to characters that have been evolved. So, you can’t bring your OP natural diamond Love Craft into a Silver or Gold PF, rift matches, and so forth.

I believe this would benefit PvP as well, since there are rank specific tiers in Free for All mode. Want to use you Bio Squig in the Gold FFA but you only have a diamonded one? No problem it’s converted to lv50 gold.

What do you guys think? Would this feature help make the game more accessible and fair?

 

[Luke]

Great idea doesn’t fit with what the devs want. Collection and leveling up. Remember when master story came out and it’s “a test of collection”? Yeah that’s the collection part. for players to have multiple maxed fighter on ALL tiers. It’s why there’s tired requirements. it’s why there are bronze silver gold pfs and not just one single character pf. Another aim in this game is leveling. Your idea is beautiful and awesome but it beats the core idea of leveling. As in if I can magically change my fighter’s tier then why level other?

I’m just not seeing this being realized.

 

[Dusty00]

Great idea doesn’t fit with what the devs want. Collection and leveling up. Remember when master story came out and it’s “a test of collection”? Yeah that’s the collection part. for players to have multiple maxed fighter on ALL tiers. It’s why there’s tired requirements. it’s why there are bronze silver gold pfs and not just one single character pf. Another aim in this game is leveling. Your idea is beautiful and awesome but it beats the core idea of leveling. As in if I can magically change my fighter’s tier then why level other?

I’m just not seeing this being realized.

I think there are enough variants in the game that a test of collection should be more about collecting variants, rather than collecting the same variant at each tier. I know you are one of the few people with such a collection but that is probably very rare.

Let’s not forget that the core idea of leveling has just been recently changed with the 2x booster item added. Never say never.

I don’t see tiers requirements for PF as a design to prevent players from leveling a character. The way I see is is that Tiered PF was designed to allow players of different stages of development to compete in a fair environment. They are clear ceilings to let Players know if they are ready to get into the next phase of the game or not. I don’t think it was intended for players to do ALL 3 PFs all the time. Most causal players probably only do gold as that’s where the game is competitive and fun for them.

To be honest, I’m surprised that they haven’t restrict us from doing all 3 PFs to grind rewards as one of those “economy” adjustments.

Besides, energy limits how frequent you can use a character. It’s not like you can use the same 15 diamond characters to do all the PFs without waiting for energy to slowly charge or pay theonites.

You can speculate what the devs want, but ultimately it needs to come from them to say what their vision and core values are. Even then, things change over time so you never know.

 

[500TheoniteSeriously]

I do not like the part about using the same move loadout you have on an evolved fighter when it deevolves, because it would have higher move points total than a fighter of said tier should, thus creating unfairness.

 

[Dusty00]

I do not like the part about using the same move loadout you have on an evolved fighter when it deevolves, because it would have higher move points total than a fighter of said tier should, thus creating unfairness.

Oh that’s a very good point! Big oversight on the concept, so thanks for pointing it out.
Perhaps the solution is that the game will unequip the lowest point value move set until the total points do not exceed that tier.

This shouldn’t be an issue for diamond to gold unless they add new moves that uses more points.

 

[Luke]

Wow that’s a long reply. Can’t say I read all of it after the 1st paragraph.

When I said multiple maxed fighters in each tier I’m not saying this based on my own game play, im not promoting maxing a bunch of the same fighter into different tiers. I can’t believe I had to explain this part. It means “more than one maxed fighters of your choosing in each tier”

I’m sure you are making great points but please you got it wrong that one thing.

 

[Dusty00]

Wow that’s a long reply. Can’t say I read all of it after the 1st paragraph.

When I said multiple maxed fighters in each tier I’m not saying this based on my own game play, im not promoting maxing a bunch of the same fighter into different tiers. I can’t believe I had to explain this part. It means “more than one maxed fighters of your choosing in each tier”

I’m sure you are making great points but please you got it wrong that one thing.

Fine. Let’s try short exchanges if you can’t be bothered to read more than a paragraph. “More than one maxed fighters of your choosing in each tier” still makes no sense to me. What most people end up having is maxed fighters of unwanted variants in Bronze and Silver, because those of your “choosing” are mostly evolved to Gold it Diamond unless you make a second copy. Maybe you mean “more than one maxed fighter in each tier”?

 

[500TheoniteSeriously]

Fine. Let’s try short exchanges if you can’t be bothered to read more than a paragraph. “More than one maxed fighters of your choosing in each tier” still makes no sense to me. What most people end up having is maxed fighters of unwanted variants in Bronze and Silver, because those of your “choosing” are mostly evolved to Gold it Diamond unless you make a second copy. Maybe you mean “more than one maxed fighter in each tier”?

I'm almost sure he did mean having more than one maxed fighter of the same variant, but in different tiers. As you said, each player has fighters of their own choosing, which could lead to preferences and then not really wanting to learn, upgrade and level a fighter they don't like that much, so they would end up with maxed fighters of the same variant in diferrent tiers.

I find that quite likely because i myself have considered doing this and have also been very hesitant about evolving (i have never evoved a fighter because of this, but i will in the future, but most probably just for gold -> diamond).

 

[Dusty00]

I'm almost sure he did mean having more than one maxed fighter of the same variant, but in different tiers. As you said, each player has fighters of their own choosing, which could lead to preferences and then not really wanting to learn, upgrade and level a fighter they don't like that much, so they would end up with maxed fighters of the same variant in diferrent tiers.

I find that quite likely because i myself have considered doing this and have also been very hesitant about evolving (i have never evoved a fighter because of this, but i will in the future, but most probably just for gold -> diamond).

You sure? Because he said “I’m not promoting maxing a bunch of the same fighter into different tiers”.

That is the point I have been trying to argue against, that it’s a waste of resource and time and the temporary convert system can help avoid.

Instead of having 3 Doublicious Doubles, one Diamond, one Gold, and last one in Silver, that I just have a Diamond copy that gets converted to a silver if I select her for Silver PF.

Again, all of this is mainly targeting to solve the gap between Gold/Diamond rank in rift mode. Gold rank can be a mode that bans Dimond characters to even the playing field, while still allowing players to use diamond copies of their favorite variants because they are now converted to Gold lv50.

 

[500TheoniteSeriously]

You sure? Because he said “I’m not promoting maxing a bunch of the same fighter into different tiers”.

That is the point I have been trying to argue against, that it’s a waste of resource and time and the temporary convert system can help avoid.

Instead of having 3 Doublicious Doubles, one Diamond, one Gold, and last one in Silver, that I just have a Diamond copy that gets converted to a silver if I select her for Silver PF.

Again, all of this is mainly targeting to solve the gap between Gold/Diamond rank in rift mode. Gold rank can be a mode that bans Dimond characters to even the playing field, while still allowing players to use diamond copies of their favorite variants because they are now converted to Gold lv50.

I think rift is okay just how it is now, the implementation of a system to temporarily deevolve a fighter depending on the mode you want to use it in might be useful for story mode or prize fights, but the idea of rift is making the strongest defense, and that at the moment means diamonds, but i guess if you mean that restrictions were implemented in some kind of "gold only rift battles" deevolving a fighter for that might be good, but that seems like something we won't see anytime soon as it would mean essentially creating different rift tiers, and that sounds complicated i guess..

Responding to what you said first, i know that exactly because you don't want to be, for example, having 3 doublicious (1 diamond, 1 gold, 1 silver) you came up with this idea of deevolving; i was just trying to clarify based on what i understood from Luke's response.

 

[cappatacus]

I'm not a fan of this. It feels too easy. And, really, I have a feeling it would just dumb down rifts and make master story mode too simple. As someone who's gone through (almost) all of story mode, it'd be kind of a slap in the face to suddenly be told all the coins I poured into new silvers was in vain. In the case of rifts, while I currently have no issues with rifts, this sounds like an issue with matchmaking that should be solved via matchmaking. Also, I imagine there are players in Gold tier rifts that don't actually have a ton of golds. If I understand you would want to make Gold Tier rift battles Gold Only fights, that would hinder those players and slow their progress.

 

[Dusty00]

Al

I'm not a fan of this. It feels too easy. And, really, I have a feeling it would just dumb down rifts and make master story mode too simple. As someone who's gone through (almost) all of story mode, it'd be kind of a slap in the face to suddenly be told all the coins I poured into new silvers was in vain. In the case of rifts, while I currently have no issues with rifts, this sounds like an issue with matchmaking that should be solved via matchmaking. Also, I imagine there are players in Gold tier rifts that don't actually have a ton of golds. If I understand you would want to make Gold Tier rift battles Gold Only fights, that would hinder those players and slow their progress.

All very good counter points. I personally won’t benefit from this myself. Like you, I’ve also invested a lot in silver duplicates for PF and master story mode. For rift I have more than enough Diamonds and have never been in Gold.

This system won’t benefit all, but might be a way to make some aspects of the game more accessible. I do wonder if it’s help with new player retention; that is, if there is an issue with new players dropping out due to the grind required to enjoy the game fully.

 

[Liam]

Sorry for the late response on this thread! PvP beta dev stuff has been madness, just circling around to forum stuff now...

I see this:

Now the restriction is that this only applies to characters that have been evolved. So, you can’t bring your OP natural diamond Love Craft into a Silver or Gold PF, rift matches, and so forth.

But then I see this:

One problem this could solve is rift maps. You are in Gold2 rank and don’t have many diamond characters? No problem, because ALL matches against gold rank will convert all diamond characters into lv50 golds.

Does the de-evolution restriction get lifted in Rift Battles, in your eyes? Otherwise, only Rift defense bases filled with evolved Fighters would be able to be de-evolved.

Diamond caliber Signature Abilities are also a lot more complicated and sometimes trickier to play around than that of a Bronze, which are intentionally simple, but not always better or worse.

Worst case scenario (not implying that other systems couldn't exist to mitigate this), you're new to Rifts and matchmake with someone in LEGEND tier, and you're fighting a bunch of Diamond's de-evolved to Bronzes with very complicated Signature Abilities with Bronzes, at a pretty polarizing disadvantage. Those who use de-evolved Fighters to matchmake below them will also have the Catalyst and Move Stat bonus advantage... 50% bonus ATK and HP is pretty powerful!

We've mused about handicapping (similar to how it works in Smash Brothers) to bring Fighters power levels closer in line with one another when some lopsided matches occur, which I think would probably be cleaner (especially for new players) than seeing Love Crafted with a Silver border and all the baggage that comes along with it.

Want to use you Bio Squig in the Gold FFA but you only have a diamonded one? No problem it’s converted to lv50 gold.

Definitely something to consider for the future! We'll likely be starting off simpler for VERSUS, and depending on how things go, we can look into adding more and more features to it.

 

[Dusty00]

Does the de-evolution restriction get lifted in Rift Battles, in your eyes? Otherwise, only Rift defense bases filled with evolved Fighters would be able to be de-evolved.

Diamond caliber Signature Abilities are also a lot more complicated and sometimes trickier to play around than that of a Bronze, which are intentionally simple, but not always better or worse.

Oops, what I said in that second quote is incorrect. It should say "ALL matches against gold rank will convert all evolved diamond characters into lv50 golds."

Like you said, characters originally created at a higher tier should NOT be eligible for de-evolve/conversion. Their SAs are often too powerful. No way I'd want to fight against a lv30 Bronze Love Craft... I hope this clarifies the idea.

Glad to hear that there's been discussion around bringing fairness to rift other than relying on matchmaking to solve all problems for players of all walks. Even concept like "Competitive PVP" mode applied to Rift may provide an alternative for those who do not "yet" have the resources to compete in the existing rift mode. Original idea posted here. Perhaps that is the mode to play to earn Diamond keys as season reward so newer players won't feel that it's impossible to raise natural diamond characters?

Anyway, no worries about taking time to reply. The fact that you even took the time to reply just shows how much you guys care about us! Much appreciation for your dedication to the player base!