Discussion for how HVS chose to handle dupe natural diamonds

[Reshiram18]

Today the SGM Twitter page revealed that in the next update any diamond fighter can be converted into one elemental essence, 40 diamond shards, and 500 skill points for the specific character converted, such as a Furry Fury giving you Ms Fortune skill points. What do you think of this approach to handling the issue of dupe natural diamonds?
Original tweet linked here: https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1177387111156027392?s=20

 

[ZeoW]

Today the SGM Twitter page revealed that in the next update any diamond fighter can be converted into one elemental essence, 40 diamond shards, and 500 skill points for the specific character converted, such as a Furry Fury giving you Ms Fortune skill points. What do you think of this approach to handling the issue of dupe natural diamonds?
Original tweet linked here: https://twitter.com/sgmobile/status/1177387111156027392?s=20

I wonder if this only works for dupes or does it work on any Diamond fighters? Also, what happens when I convert Overclocked which is Neutral?

The conversions are honestly better than what I expected so this is great news to me!

 

[Kevin Pepino]

Also, what happens when I convert Overclocked which is Neutral?

I would like to make the following theories for non-elemental conversion:

1) Reverse Rainbow Blight: We know that RB requires one essence of Water, Fire and Air. So maybe it gives the three of them, which may sound a little overly generous, but given how there's only two non-elementals and only one is a natural Diamond, it could get a pass. Another possibility to this would be maybe 330 shards of each, so that it evens out to a single essence I guess.

2) Random Essence: This one is probably less favorable for, as the name implies, you won't know which essence it may give you, making it a rather risky proposition. I mean gaining an essence will still be worth it, but luck would determine if it's the one you needed.

3) Diamond Shards: The least likely of the three, it straight up gives more Dia shards than usual. Let's say, to put a number, 500 shards?​

 

[Starsmore]

Actually i don't like it very much.
One essence is pretty nothing, give me two or three so at least I can convert a gold fighter.
Skill points maybe are good for the ones that want to upgrade the three a specific character and have dupes of it. In my case it's useless because I have three Stand Out and Furry Fury and no intention of upgrade them.
The number of shards is just too low since you need 25 time more to get a diamond.

 

[BallotBoxer]

Yeah, I'm also feeling a "that's it?" Essentially, a natural diamond is being crushed to a fraction of itself. I wasn't expecting equivalent exchange, but it seems to be mostly loss. Consider the materials needed for a gold to become diamond as the worth of a natural diamond:

CRUSHED DIAMOND EQUATION
Input
1 Diamond Fighter = 3 Elemental Essences and 5 sacrificial Gold Characters

Output
1 Elemental Essence crystal (1,000 essence shards) (worth 1500 Rift Coins)
500 Character Points (worth 375 Rift Coins)
40 Diamond shards (equivalent to opening one gold relic, but without getting the gold character, of course) (worth 2500 Rift Coins)

Instead of 40 Diamond shards, I would prefer a gold relic, so I at least have something tangible.

Another possibility to this would be maybe 330 shards of each, so that it evens out to a single essence I guess.

Yeah, getting 3 piles (333/333/333) of elemental shards for melting an Overclocked Robo-Fortune sounds the most likely.

 

[nesteaisnasty]

the response seems to be a bit too negative and i honestly don't get why. you finally get something good from those dupes and it's quite valuable! elemental essence is not that easy to get (1500 rift coins and you've got to wait for it to appear in the CoC or about two months of grinding) and obviously giving 3 essences for a single diamond is broken and it would affect the inner transactions drastically!
500 skill points is not much but it's not few either! after all you can get extra points with levelling them up a bit before converting.

the only problem i'm having with this is the amount of diamond shards. waiting months to get enough for a diamond relic and then getting a dupe is awful and 40 shards is the max we're getting from converting it? i don't know man i would be really upset. no one expects 500 shards or anything like that but 100 would be both balanced and pleasing.

 

[Reshiram18]

Actually i don't like it very much.
One essence is pretty nothing, give me two or three so at least I can convert a gold fighter.
Skill points maybe are good for the ones that want to upgrade the three a specific character and have dupes of it. In my case it's useless because I have three Stand Out and Furry Fury and no intention of upgrade them.
The number of shards is just too low since you need 25 time more to get a diamond.

You can always put the skill points you get from converting the dupe Stand Outs and Furrys into other Eliza or Fortune variants

 

[Dusty00]

Yeah, I'm also feeling a "that's it?" Essentially, a natural diamond is being crushed to a fraction of itself. I wasn't expecting equivalent exchange, but it seems to be mostly loss. Consider the materials needed for a gold to become diamond as the worth of a natural diamond:

CRUSHED DIAMOND EQUATION
Input
1 Diamond Fighter = 3 Elemental Essences and 5 sacrificial Gold Characters

Output
1 Elemental Essence crystal (1,000 essence shards) (worth 1500 Rift Coins)
500 Character Points (worth 375 Rift Coins)
40 Diamond shards (equivalent to opening one gold relic, but without getting the gold character, of course) (worth 2500 Rift Coins)

Instead of 40 Diamond shards, I would prefer a gold relic, so I at least have something tangible.


Yeah, getting 3 piles (333/333/333) of elemental shards for melting an Overclocked Robo-Fortune sounds the most likely.

Really like the idea of getting a gold relic instead of 40 shards. I’d take that over 100 shards to be honest just because there are so many difficult to get gold variants.

 

[Sairus]

Just want to pop in to confirm that converting a neutral element Diamond will produce one random Essence of any color.

 

[BallotBoxer]

the only problem i'm having with this is the amount of diamond shards. waiting months to get enough for a diamond relic and then getting a dupe is awful and 40 shards is the max we're getting from converting it? i don't know man i would be really upset. no one expects 500 shards or anything like that but 100 would be both balanced and pleasing.

Agreed, but I'd ask for at least a quarter, so 250 diamond shards (or one gold relic for the chance to dream).

Nothin' special about 40 diamond dust. Anyone strong enough to get 10% on Gold PFs is getting 80 diamond shards a week. About a quarter of a year later (~3 months, or 12.5 weeks), that's a diamond relic. That's a long wait for a disappointing dupe and a weak deal. Would you sell your $200 bike for $8 (40 shards is 1/25)?

 

[Dusty00]

Agreed, but I'd ask for at least a quarter, so 250 diamond shards (or one gold relic for the chance to dream).

Nothin' special about 40 diamond dust. Anyone strong enough to get 10% on Gold PFs is getting 80 diamond shards a week. About a quarter of a year later (~3 months, or 12.5 weeks), that's a diamond relic. That's a long wait for a disappointing dupe and a weak deal. Would you sell your $200 bike for $8 (40 shards is 1/25)?

Hang on, where do you get $200 bikes to begin with? Decent ones are like $500+. If comparing to Diamond Relics, I’d use those fancy $5,000 bikes as example. Would you del it for $200 bucks?

Again, agreeing here that it would be nice to get either 250 or a gold relic. Still, something is better than nothing.

 

[Blimeylimey]

I was hoping that duplicate natural diamonds would more or less disappear with some sort of duplicate check on opening. Personally, I would rather have a no duplicate guarantee (until all natural diamonds are opened) on all future relics, or even just diamond relics, even if it meant that there is no system for getting rid of duplicates in the future. I can understand if other players disagree with this.

My criticism of the current diamond conversion system is that you don't get meaningfully closer to a different natural diamond, which is what was hoped for when opening a relic. Neither the essence nor the skill points help with this and diamond shards of any number less than 1000 means you can just get stuck with another duplicate.

 

[fanghoul]

I guess I'm in the "glad to get something" camp. Also, I apparently don't need to agonize anymore about which of my fire element fighters to advance, which is nice.

 

[Reshiram18]

I guess I'm in the "glad to get something" camp. Also, I apparently don't need to agonize anymore about which of my fire element fighters to advance, which is nice.

I completely agree with you there. While many of the others are complaining about how what we are getting is not enough, I'm over here thinking, "Dupe nat diamonds are mostly useless and we have no way of getting rid of them but now we will be getting something back for them."

 

[Starsmore]

You can always put the skill points you get from converting the dupe Stand Outs and Furrys into other Eliza or Fortune variants

Guess what, long time players already have maxed a lot of fighters, I simply don't need to use them on other variants since I already have maxed them and have enough spare skill points if I want to work on other variants.
Anyway, at least let us sacrifice those diamonds, let's say a couple of millions xp for a level 1 natural diamonds would be fine.

 

[Yujipooji]

I think you guys have to understand that conversion rate in terms of value in any game is never 1:1. We buy gold moves for 80k, sell it for 5k right? It works the same way here. It’s not realistic to get the full value of a nat dia back when getting rid of them.

This is way better than I expected. Honestly i would have preferred 200 shards over the essence and skill points, but this is still a solid conversion for a dupe.

 

[500TheoniteSeriously]

I think you guys have to understand that conversion rate in terms of value in any game is never 1:1. We buy gold moves for 80k, sell it for 5k right? It works the same way here. It’s not realistic to get the full value of a nat dia back when getting rid of them.

This is way better than I expected. Honestly i would have preferred 200 shards over the essence and skill points, but this is still a solid conversion for a dupe.

Except, when one buys a move, they know what they are getting, that's what gives it such high price compared to how much you'd get for selling it; comparing to how much it costs to get a random move, it's relatively free. Then, the analogy doesn't really work.

 

[fanghoul]

Except, when one buys a move, they know what they are getting, that's what gives it such high price compared to how much you'd get for selling it; comparing to how much it costs to get a random move, it's relatively free. Then, the analogy doesn't really work.

Compare it to a gold move relic then. That's 100 theonite, which you can trade in for 50,000-115,000 canopy coins, depending on how many you trade in at once. That's still a huge loss in value.

 

[fanghoul]

Guess what, long time players already have maxed a lot of fighters, I simply don't need to use them on other variants since I already have maxed them and have enough spare skill points if I want to work on other variants.
Anyway, at least let us sacrifice those diamonds, let's say a couple of millions xp for a level 1 natural diamonds would be fine.

I don't know if I can agree with this. I'm one of the older players here, and I'm at present grinding away for another 3,000 Parasoul skill points, before moving on to my next project which requires another 1,000 of the same.

(There's downsides to having a favorite character in this game...)

I mean, when I finally trade in my many Heavy Handeds, I don't know that I'll immediately have a use for the 1,500 skill points to come out of that on top of the 4,000 I have saved up, but I also never thought I'd spend all the 3,000 skill points I saved up for Squiggly, but those certainly got spent. It costs a lot to max out the MA on diamonds. Hell, it's a lot of points just to fill out their skill trees.

 

[Disasterrr19]

Honestly, I am totally satisfied with this way of dealing with the duplicates. And that comes from a person with fantastic collection of 6 LC's, 5 FF's and 3 SO's out of 16 Nat Dias total.

I understand that those of us who were around for some time do not need skill points and essences anymore, but we should also consider new players who just recently started building their collections. Just imagine - you are a lvl 40 player who just pulled second Fly Trap... Your first one is still far from completion, you do not need second one, what a disappointment! But then you realize that if you convert her, then it would actually be a huge advancement towards diamonding your Buzzkill which requests way less resourses to max out and is going to be extremely efficient - yeah, great!

And there is another thing why we should not get full refund on our converted Nat Dias - that would drastically reduce the "Gatcha!" element of the game that was here right from the beginning. I, for one, was chasing Megasonic for almost a year and thought that I'm never going to get him - imagine how happy I was when I finally pulled him! It does not matter that he's weak compared to easily obtained Epic Sax, I still wanted to get him just because the skin is SOOOO cool! In terms of Nat Dias, as long as I have no Dream Band and Summer Salt, there is an additional motivation for me to continue playing. If it would be really easy to get all variants relatively fast, then the game would become boring pretty soon...