Eliza and Queen Lamia [SPOILERS]

[cappatacus]

So, I've watched back through the original stories recently, and there was one thing that caught my eye.

In Eliza's story, Double says that Eliza killed her daughters. In another story, I think Double's, we see Aeon and Venus playing Skullgirls in some greater dimension. We know that Double is Queen Lamia, or the Great Mother, and her daughters are definitely in reference to Aeon and Venus. But they're clearly still alive, so why does Double say Eliza killed them?

If the daughters were killed, then does that mean the place they're in is an afterlife? And in that case, is the Skullheart their attempt at taking revenge on the normal world?

Or, maybe Double lived with them in the "afterlife" and was killed by Eliza, which in reality just sent her into the normal world, seperating her from her daughters.

That seems less likely to me, since inside the Grand Cathedral, there's stained glass windows of Aeon, Venus, and Lamia. So, they must have appeared to humans at some point and lived with them.

I wonder why Eliza killed them though?
Were they just caught in the crossfire of the Parasite War, or were they intentionally sought out? Also, if they have some sort of deity status, how did Eliza manage to kill them?

This doesn't have a lot of focus, I just wanted to ramble about the lore because I find it interesting. Let me know if there's information I overlooked!

 

[Veeko]

Yeah, most of this isn’t really clear. My opinion is that Eliza sought to kill Lamia and her daughters specifically so she could take her place as queen, but that’s not confirmed. Another opinion I have is that she did, in fact, kill them, but either them having more powerful parasites than most- Kronos and Abaddon having the ability to manipulate time and space, having that sort of interdimensional aspect to them, that allowed them to live on in the strange world they’re seen playing Skullgirls in. Or maybe they were never truly human to begin with, and it was only representations of the actual beings that were killed. Or maybe it was something Lamia did- the same action that created the Skull Heart and Double? Hopefully we’ll find out the true answer to that some day!
One thing that is confirmed is that Trinity is a creation of Double, though- she started the religion as part of the whole Skull Heart scheme, and she’s just had a very long time to spread her influence.

 

[cappatacus]

Yeah, most of this isn’t really clear. My opinion is that Eliza sought to kill Lamia and her daughters specifically so she could take her place as queen, but that’s not confirmed. Another opinion I have is that she did, in fact, kill them, but either them having more powerful parasites than most- Kronos and Abaddon having the ability to manipulate time and space, having that sort of interdimensional aspect to them, that allowed them to live on in the strange world they’re seen playing Skullgirls in. Or maybe they were never truly human to begin with, and it was only representations of the actual beings that were killed. Or maybe it was something Lamia did- the same action that created the Skull Heart and Double? Hopefully we’ll find out the true answer to that some day!
One thing that is confirmed is that Trinity is a creation of Double, though- she started the religion as part of the whole Skull Heart scheme, and she’s just had a very long time to spread her influence.

Her killing for power makes a lot of sense. I wonder if this is the kind of thing we'll see in her origin story, or if they'll focus on how Neferu bonded with Sekhmet.

Either way, crossing my fingers for more origin stories soon!

 

[rexturtle1120]

While I certainly can’t explain everything I’ve heard that each story in Skullgirls is set in an alternate timeline where different things happen depending on which charecter you pick. Yes many things that are the same do happen such as the murder of Dr.Avian, but Peacock has never destroyed the skull heart at the same time Ms.Fourtune does which is why I can confirm this statement to be true, there’s also different dialogue and people die but that’s just another reason. Aeon and Venus at this point are kinda like our all powerful fourth wall breakers- while I believe in Eliza’s story for the time being they were killed, that’s not to say that in an alternate timeline there still alive and well. As for Double I’ve heard she’s a shadow of the queeen, hate to drag Harry Potter into this but kinda like horocruxs where it’s one part of your soul, in other words only a part of the queen and not her total self.

All in all the thing to keep in mind is that Skullgirls takes place in alternate timelines, though I’d definitely like to know more about these characters

 

[Beldr447]

Some canon info:

Eliza did kill Aeon and Venus, no explanation for the other Aeon and Venus manipulating thr skullheart.

By the time Eliza did it the skullheart already existed, since they confirmed parasites come from the skullheart.

Aeon, Venus and Queen Lamia are in the church and have a religion because Double made it up, yes, the entire trinity religion was made up by Double.

All the stories in story mode PC are indeed alternate timelines, but they confirmed none of them are the true canon storyline.

They said that Umbrella had to be playable to see the true storyline, since she is the only one that can destroy the skullheart forever.

Aeon, Venus and Mother are on a plane of existance known as Abyss and they have never meddled in mortal affairs

 

[Psyche]

When making blunt assertions, citations or any form of evidence is always much appreciated!

 

[Beldr447]

When making blunt assertions, citations or any form of evidence is always much appreciated!

So you refering to me? all of that info is from the confirmed canon thread on skullheart forums over here:
http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/the-canon-info-thread-what-we-know.8/

 

[Psyche]

So you refering to me? all of that info is from the confirmed canon thread on skullheart forums over here:
http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/the-canon-info-thread-what-we-know.8/

I was not referring to you specifically but I suppose I was including you within the general advice for good practice when discussing lore like this. While I do appreciate the link, it’s still unofficial and some parts of it actually contradict what you have said, such as disagreement over whether Aeon and Venus have ‘meddled’ in the default mortal realm’s affairs. Still better than nothing! I don’t mean to discourage you from discussing the story and lore, but it’s nice to point people to places where they can gather additional information if they please.

 

[Beldr447]

I was not referring to you specifically but I suppose I was including you within the general advice for good practice when discussing lore like this. While I do appreciate the link, it’s still unofficial and some parts of it actually contradict what you have said, such as disagreement over whether Aeon and Venus have ‘meddled’ in the default mortal realm’s affairs. Still better than nothing! I don’t mean to discourage you from discussing the story and lore, but it’s nice to point people to places where they can gather additional information if they please.

Wait, where it is the disagreement on Aeon/Venus not meddeling on mortal affairs?
That info came from a stream if I am not mistaken so it is official, unless they denied later but I have not seen any mention to that.

 

[Psyche]

@Beldr447 The Skullheart thread says the following:

- The Trinity live on a separate plane of existence called The Abyss. This realm does not interact with the normal world except in extremely rare cases; so rare, in fact, that Alex answered with regards to if Aeon/Venus had ever meddled in mortal affairs, "no, never." His comments about Squigly/Leviathan possibly ripping a hole in space via Abaddon's power (thus allowing Venus into their world) does make it clear that the realms can connect, though.

Meanwhile:

Aeon, Venus and Mother are on a plane of existance known as Abyss and they have meddled in mortal affairs

It doesn't matter too much though. All I was asking for was some kind of referencing which you have effectively done so it's fine.



Anyway, back to the original topic. My interpretation of Double's 'you killed my daughters' line is that in that moment Double is a projection of Lamia or Mother or whomever, as opposed to an autonomous being. I feel that it makes sense for Double to have been created by the Divine Trinity with some embedded memories that do not belong to her, or for her to be something like an avatar in the main world/dimension/universe that either unquestioningly follows orders or can become possessed and controlled directly.
I haven't played the main game's stories in quite a while, but I seem to recall that while delivering that dialogue, Double's character sprite is in a contorted and disfigured (or at least moreso than usual) position, with the contours of a face really protruding out of the flesh or something like that. This really affirmed my belief that while she was talking in the first person, she was not talking about herself at this moment.

 

[Beldr447]

@Beldr447 The Skullheart thread says the following:


Meanwhile:


It doesn't matter too much though. All I was asking for was some kind of referencing which you have effectively done so it's fine.



Anyway, back to the original topic. My interpretation of Double's 'you killed my daughters' line is that in that moment Double is a projection of Lamia or Mother or whomever, as opposed to an autonomous being. I feel that it makes sense for Double to have been created by the Divine Trinity with some embedded memories that do not belong to her, or for her to be something like an avatar in the main world/dimension/universe that either unquestioningly follows orders or can become possessed and controlled directly.
I haven't played the main game's stories in quite a while, but I seem to recall that while delivering that dialogue, Double's character sprite is in a contorted and disfigured (or at least moreso than usual) position, with the contours of a face really protruding out of the flesh or something like that. This really affirmed my belief that while she was talking in the first person, she was not talking about herself at this moment.

OK, that was a fucking typo on my part and forgot to write never fml

 

[Omega Double]

Makes one wonder how strong queen Lamia is if her Double is as powerful as it is.

 

[500TheoniteSeriously]

I think, from all i know about Skullgirls (not much, tho), that Eliza, Aeon, Venus, and Queen Lamia used to exist all at the same time in the mortal world, with Lamia being, well, Queen of perhaps some ancient civilization, and i've read somewhere that Eliza (when she was called Neferu) used to be one of her generals, who betrayed her to try to take her place as queen, and in the process killed her daughters, and probably also Lamia herself.
But
Somehow, Lamia (with or without her daughters) may have created Double after they died (oh, and i suppose they have lived in the Abyss since the death of their "mortal" forms) or Double could be, as she has been called sometimes, the "shadow" of Lamia, this probably referring to that she is a part of her.
This leads me to believe that while in the Abyss, the Trinity are able to "play" Skullgirls while controlling Double (as in she is the main character for them in Skullgirls) but the different timelines they and us players explore in the game are all real within the Skullgirls world, and they will all converge in a single one, even the timeline we see in which the Trinity lives (trapped after they were killed by Eliza) in the Abyss.
And about the Skull Heart, i didn't know it existed before they died, but it is necessary if parasites originated from it (because Eliza exists), but since it seems to be in control of the Trinity (the voices of Aeon and Venus come out of it when it speaks to whoever may want to wish for something), then maybe when they were alive in the mortal world, they used it to rule and so Lamia had her kingdom (but i've just thought of something: Lamia doesn't seem to have a parasite (tho we never really see her, just the silhouette of Mother in Double's story, and some statues in the Cathedral; Aeon and Venus surely have parasites, but if Lamia used to be queen, then maybe she is even more powerful than anyone with a parasite (including her daughters)? Then it should be really interesting how Eliza (as Neferu) managed to kill Lamia's daughters and destroy her kingdom)
And i guess that's all i wanted to say about this, you know, my ideas about the story of Eliza, Double, the Trinity, and the Skulk Heart.

 

[Brawlitup99]

My whole thing with Neferu/Eliza is that she did something to solidify the bad rap parasites get by the time SG2E rolls around, and I honestly think it goes hand in hand with the supposed death of Aeon and Venus, as well as Delilah, the host for Samson at the time. Maybe she saw parasites as weak for relying on their hosts so much? Considering her shtick is that she's one and the same with Sekhmet, and how she always ridicules Leviathan and Samson for not "taking back their place in the world" or whatever, maybe she lashed out at the rest of the world and tried to take power from Queen Lamia?

Just throwing ideas out there. I definitely like how secretive stuff like this is in terms of the timeline.

(Got most of this information from the SG Wiki? Dunno how credible it is but I assume from what I've seen and how on par it is to the canon thread and SG2E, I assume it works)