1. [2018/06/22]
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Characters Eliza's Current Variants

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by Undeadbunny, May 5, 2020.

  1. Undeadbunny

    Undeadbunny New Member

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    Hello everyone. This is Undeadbunny, an experienced Eliza player, and I was just wanting to talk about some of Eliza's variants. This is my first post, so bare with me. Anyways, I feel like a lot of Eliza variants are pretty bad considering signature abilities/stats, and I was wanting to take a look at specifically Bloody Valentine, Tomb and Gloom, and Lapis Luxury.

    To start off, I would like to discuss Tomb and Gloom. At first glance, she seems like a fairly decent silver Eliza variant. However, in my opinion and many others, she is not. The reason being she is simply outdated. She was created before the Eliza kit buffs to certain moves, such as curse applying on sehk bite and healblock on sehk turn. When the changes to Eliza's kit came out, Tomb and Gloom got kind of hurt by it. When her moves proc along with her SA, what ends up happening is nonstackable debuffs like healblock end up overlapping, meaning she gets no use from the SA. However, it is not just her SA2 that is not good. Her SA1 sounds good on paper, but Evasion isn't needed on an Eliza. She already has blood oath as a safety net, high HP, and unflinching during sehkmet mode. Eliza also has a certain loop that also acts as a safety. All of this makes Tomb and Gloom not very good, but what makes her really fall behind are her stats. With only 8k max attack, and an unreliable SA, she doesn't really have any sources of DPS, which is a big problem. In conclusion, Tomb and Gloom needs some changes from my perspective.

    Next, we have Bloody Valentine. This Eliza is lackluster for some of the same reasons Tomb and Gloom is. Bloody Valentine has similar stats to Tomb and Gloom , but this time we will be looking at her HP, which is 58k max at diamond. Although one could argue that Bloody Valentine can be a good defensive variant, the facts that she only regens from special moves, Eliza is incredibly easy to intercept, and she has arguably low HP, means that she is negligible on defense. Any Bloody Valentine I have come across, which is about 4 diamonds and countless golds, have been so ineffective I have to check her SAs everytime I fight her to actually see why they put her on a defense team. I find that a big problem with Bloody Val's regen SA is that it is simply not enough. Your average special move can outdamage the 10% regen from her SA. She is also not redeemable on offense, since her regen is only applicable to special moves, her attack stat is poor, and she doesn't have anything to make up for the lack of DPS. Her meter gain could be argued to help her, but it's not significant enough to really make a difference like it does in Stand Out and Diva Intervention. Bloody valentine was once a fighter I considered using, but after facing her multiple times I just decided it wasn't worth it for a silver variant.

    Now for the real crime of this trio, Lapis Luxury. Many call this variant simply mediocre for her one time use ability. However, Lapis Luxury would not be so awful if her SAs were actually reliable. Her SA1 matches by value instead of percent, so they would have to have a full BB3 in order for you to use her SA1 effectively. Now this is a big, BIG problem and the reason why is because by the time they have a BB3, they are most likely already low HP, which if Lapis was to tag in it would be detrimental to her to swap health values with her SA2. Here is my idea to fix this, simply match by the highest percentage value or just give 100% BB percent on tag in. It sounds strong, but remeber Lapis is already limited by her low HP requirement for her SA2 and the fact that both of her SAs are a one time use. Her SA2 also has some major problems, the main one being that it procs whenever Lapis uses a BB3. This means that you can't use a BB3 the entire match with Lapis Luxury unless you want to proc your ability, potentially hurting yourself. I would suggest making it so that it only procs whenever Lapis Luxury has lower health than the opponent. I also don't like how reliant her SAs are on her being low health and her opponents being high health, so perhaps if there were some sort of secondary effect of her SA1 that reduced her health on tag in once per match it would be better since it would have synergy. Another problem I have with Lapis Luxury is that Eliza's MAs actually hurt her. Although yes, her meter reliance can be fixed by using Ritual Sacrifice, you have to kill off one of your teammates in order to use it, so you would have to put yourself in a losing situation to actually use Lapis Luxury with Ritual Sacrifice. Additionally, it makes her SA1 even more useless than it already is. Say if you started with someone else first, had them die for Ritual Sacrifice, and then tagged in as Lapis both Ritual and her SA1 would proc. This creates a similar problem to Tomb's SA debuffs overlapping with Eliza's kit debuffs. Blood Oath isn't any better. Because Lapis Luxury needs to be low health to get maximum usage out of her SA2, Blood Oaths regen would hurt her in the long run. Although either MA sounds good on paper for defense, if Lapis Luxury tags in with 100% HP against the player and used her BB3, then she would ultimately be giving health back to the player and lowering her own. All of these problems come together to form a variant who, in my opinion, is nearly as bad as the infamous Raw Nerv Painwheel. To wrap it all together, I really hope these variants are improved in a future update just like Mummy Dearest would be. I have found that a lot of players are disappointed that Lapis Luxury, Tomb, and Bloody Valentine have such poor SAs but such great pallets, and it would be great to see them on a more applicable level the other silver variants are.

    Feel free to post your opinions or ideas for changes, keep it constructive and respectful please, and thank you for listening!
     
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  2. rexturtle1120

    rexturtle1120 Well-Known Member

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    I’m a little busy so I only read the Eliza Bloody Valentine part, nice post though!

    I think that the main problem with all Eliza’s is that low attack stat, Diva intervention is amazing but she doesn’t hold up attack wise in the higher steak prize fights. I think if they made the attack better for Eliza overall then fighters like Bloody valentine’s SA wouldn’t be a problem. I suppose we also have to take in account what fighters were using against these variants and what we use these variants for. As well as the modifiers in place when we fight them. With the proper stats that players invest coins into she can be a force to reckon with, but not without those specific stat upgrades . I disagree with the notion that Bloody valentines SA isn’t that good, not using the right counters to her spells death since she has unlimited and quickly accessible regeneration, but I see where our coming from and you have good reasoning. The quick regeneration is especially potent in especially high fight streaks where every hit counts. I think that the SA’s just need to be buffed a little. Eliza Bloody valentine could probably benefit from 25% chance for a debuff to be removed when using a special move/blockbuster. But I don’t really know. Overall, it was a good read and welcome to the forums!
     
    #2 rexturtle1120, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  3. Undeadbunny

    Undeadbunny New Member

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    I generally agree with this. I think Bloody val could use some number buffs. The recent AI changes have made her better for defense, but say if the Special Move regen was 20% it would make her significantly more potent. I also think maybe Scarlet Viper stats would be better for her and just making her straight up offense Eliza. Most Eliza's past silver have something to make up for her low attack other than Eliza's kit, or they don't have low attack. I would have discussed Mummy Dearest too but she is getting changes soon. However, I do think that Red Velvet deserves some changes too, but she honestly is really amazing as she is. Thanks for the feedback!
     
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  4. Diony

    Diony Active Member

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    Lapis Luxury is so bad
     
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  5. Undeadbunny

    Undeadbunny New Member

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    She's got to be the worst gold imo, or at least tied with Raw Nerv
     

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