Characters Feathered Edges - [ proposal halted ]

[SvenZ]

This suggestion is on Pause​

Spoiler

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Signature Ability 2​	While Fukua is benefitting from BARRIER she does not react to opponents projectile hits, and 100/150/200% of projectile damage is reflected back.	Combo hits lower than 1/2/3x Fukua's stacks of BARRIER deal no damage to her.

1. Essentially, if Filia has 5 stacks of Barrier on her, you'll have to do a combo hit of 15 before you start dealing damage.

 

[Aoskull]

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	OLD​	NEW​
Signature Ability 2​	While Fukua is benefitting from BARRIER she does not react to opponents projectile hits, and 100/150/200% of projectile damage is reflected back.	While Fukua is benefitting from BARRIER she cannot be thrown. Combo hits lower than her stacks of BARRIER deal no damage to her and reflect 50/75/100% the damage back.

1. Essentially, if Filia has 5 stacks of Barrier on her, you'll have to do a combo hit of 6 or higher before you start dealing damage. While some variats encourage low combo counts, here they are a necessity.
2. She becomes immune to throws while benefiting from Barrier, so throw tactics are out of the question.
3. Due to the high hit absorption, you can't spam projectiles either. She'll take 0 damage herself and reflect 100% of the attack to the opponent.
4. The current version doesn't make much sense with how FE gains Barrier. She'll most frequently trigger SA1 while in melee range, and almost no character uses a projectile in a block string. It's more of a newbie trap than anything.
5. This remake encourages the use of BARRIER supports, to keep her barrier stacks high. A budget defense combo with Maid of Honor and Rose Tinted will make FA a favorable early-mid game defender for new players.

- “Cannot be thrown” is a bit OP imo. When you're using Beo or Celrebella, it's essentially the same as having a permanent evasion, which leaves players who use them mainly (especially newcomers) in despair.

- If you don't take any damage while under the barrier, the reflected damage would be 0 I think…

- Here’s my suggestion. I made some changes from previous one.

Sig1 - Well-timed block remove all debuff and gain 1/2/3 stacks of BARRIER and disable opponent’s SP and TAG IN for 10 sec.

Sig2: While having BARRIER, steal 1 opponent buff and gain 8/10/12 sec of MIASMA every 3 seconds

(Unlike Indomitable, sig2 does not activate while opponent does not have any buff)

 

[SvenZ]

- “Cannot be thrown” is a bit OP imo. When you're using Beo or Celrebella, it's essentially the same as having a permanent evasion, which leaves players who use them mainly (especially newcomers) in despair.

- If you don't take any damage while under the barrier, the reflected damage would be 0 I think…

- Here’s my suggestion. I made some changes from previous one.

Sig1 - Well-timed block remove all debuff and gain 1/2/3 stacks of BARRIER and disable opponent’s SP and TAG IN for 10 sec.

Sig2: While having BARRIER, steal 1 opponent buff and gain 8/10/12 sec of MIASMA every 3 seconds

(Unlike Indomitable, sig2 does not activate while opponent does not have any buff)

Fukua herself won't take damage, but the opponent will. I think I'll change it to dealing Fukua's attack instead. Should be more clear that way as well.

There already exist variants that discourage the use of certain characters, so I don't see that as a problem. Beo and Bella have more than enough ways to get a combo of 6 and above, plus you have 3 characters in your reserve. If the effect was only to reflect 5 hits and not take damage from them, it wouldn't be strong enough. It'll be annoying, for sure, but still quite easy to deal with

 

[Kheul]

Well, this is kinda weird. What is her role supposed to be after these changes? Still a critless offensive Fukua? Defender Fukua? Or just a hybrid?

She sounds really disgusting with the immediate 100% ATK reflect. Sure you can counter it easily but that immediate reflect sounds like an overkill to me.

This kit doesn't make much sense without a support if used defensively but sure.

Sounds like a direct upgrade overall but values require some tweaking.

 

[SvenZ]

Well, this is kinda weird. What is her role supposed to be after these changes? Still a critless offensive Fukua? Defender Fukua? Or just a hybrid?

She sounds really disgusting with the immediate 100% ATK reflect. Sure you can counter it easily but that immediate reflect sounds like an overkill to me.

This kit doesn't make much sense without a support if used defensively but sure.

Sounds like a direct upgrade overall but values require some tweaking.

I changed the effect. Even though there are other variants that immediately reflect damage, the way it was originally would lead to undesirable wonky builds

I want to focus her on being mainly a defender. I tweaked SA2 to where Barrier stacks add a big chunk of extra durability

Combo hits lower than 1/2/3x Fukua's current stacks of BARRIER deal no damage to her.

I.e. at 5 stacks of Barrier, you'll need to deal a combo of 16 before you start dealing damage

I'll adjust the effects and numbers further in the following days

 

[Kheul]

New one sounds interesting, it is kinda like Annie's Blueshift Marquee but I like the idea.

This guts her kinda hard but focuses on a "low combo counter" niche. Sure it is going to be incredibly strong against Cerebella/Beowulf loop, but why would you use them against her in the first place? Even if you use them her barrier gain condition can't really be used in defense, you will surely need a support because those units she is supposed to counter won't even give her a chance to activate her SA1 because they will be spamming throws instead of hitting her.

I think this change might boost her offensive capabilites even more, she being practically invulnerable to lower combo hits is a decent plus if a burst is equipped but I don't think this change would improve her that much. Raw Nerv still outclasses her in terms of safety net by a huge margin.

Also even if you pair her with something like Rose Tinted, those barriers will immediately melt with following hits as they probably will activate mid-combo.

There are some routes one can take: improve her current niche, give her a new role, make her an hybrid. I think she can be improved further with more brainstorming. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[SvenZ]

You will surely need a support because those units she is supposed to counter won't even give her a chance to activate her SA1 because they will be spamming throws instead of hitting her.

That was the reason for the Throw immunity in the first version

I think this change might boost her offensive capabilites even more, she being practically invulnerable to lower combo hits is a decent plus if a burst is equipped

That's the opposite of my goal with this remake. I want her to be a purely defensive character, and feel like an unpenetrable wall, unless you have the tools to deal with her (hex, curse, buff clear).

There are some routes one can take: improve her current niche, give her a new role, make her an hybrid. I think she can be improved further with more brainstorming. I'm looking forward to it.

Thank you, but from the looks of it a lot more will have to be changed. On the to do list is:

1. Avoid making her kit viable for offense
2. Figure out a counter for throws
3. Provide more or easier ways to gain Barrier
4. Reconsider SA2's dependence on barrier or how they interact

 

[Aoskull]

Umm, sorry to interrupt you two, but I want her to be “offensive”. I have posted my suggestion above, and here are the aims of the change.

- By dealing indirect damage with miasma, it can be expected to be useful for offense. Although it doesn't have the immediate effect of reflect damage, it can slowly and steadily chip away at the opponent’s health and gauge, greatly increasing its strength in endurance battles. Some of the guest stars are also really effective.

- On the defensive side, some success from her is also expected. Even with this ability, just like reflected damage, attacker can deal with curses, hexes, and buff removal, and the defender can take countermeasures with Tinted or Maid of Honor.

- I designed her performance as a "Second Indomitable." She doesn't require risky tactics, all you need is just a well-time guard to maintain your barrier. It makes her performance more casually, and also would be a good choice for newcomers as an introductory character for just guard.

- but unlike Indomitable, sig2 can't be activated if the opponent has no buffs considering the miasma duration and the ease of maintaining the acquisition conditions. This will prevent her from becoming complete upward compatibility of Indomitable and emphasize its role as a stable counterattacker against fighters who use a lot of buffs, rather than simply for the purpose of gaining miasma.

 

[SvenZ]

Umm, sorry to interrupt you two, but I want her to be “offensive”. I have posted my suggestion above, and here are the aims of the change.

- By dealing indirect damage with miasma, it can be expected to be useful for offense. Although it doesn't have the immediate effect of reflect damage, it can slowly and steadily chip away at the opponent’s health and gauge, greatly increasing its strength in endurance battles. Some of the guest stars are also really effective.

- On the defensive side, some success from her is also expected. Even with this ability, just like reflected damage, attacker can deal with curses, hexes, and buff removal, and the defender can take countermeasures with Tinted or Maid of Honor.

- I designed her performance as a "Second Indomitable." She doesn't require risky tactics, all you need is just a well-time guard to maintain your barrier. It makes her performance more casually, and also would be a good choice for newcomers as an introductory character for just guard.

- but unlike Indomitable, sig2 can't be activated if the opponent has no buffs considering the miasma duration and the ease of maintaining the acquisition conditions. This will prevent her from becoming complete upward compatibility of Indomitable and emphasize its role as a stable counterattacker against fighters who use a lot of buffs, rather than simply for the purpose of gaining miasma.

I'd rather you post a separate thread where you discuss your proposal. I dislike the idea of adding Miasma to her, and don't intend of incorporating it