List of Marquee Abilities

[fanghoul]

This makes sense because all calculations of overall crit damage would just be crit rate * crit damage. So whichever one with the highest increase is going to be better.

I'd still love to take a gander at that spreadsheet though!

Here it is:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pI3jdyQy56Oy3gwoL3y32Wuz70ev1Z2f2IpNyVaZGaA/edit?usp=sharing

I've tried to make it at least a little more approachable than my first draft, and hopefully I haven't flubbed that too badly.

 

[fanghoul]

Oh, I was just playing around in the game and noticed that the Marquee description here for Critical Mass is wrong. It's 20% base, with +2% per level, to a max of 40%.

I've adjusted the spreadsheet to account for that, will try to adjust my previous post tomorrow if I find the time. The results are about the same, just a bit stronger than before in favor of picking Critical Mass over Critical Thinking, and about twice the benefit from marquee levels, which we'd expect.

 

[pigpigpigwwf]

Which maraquee is suitable for Class Cut Filia?

 

[Fel]

Which maraquee is suitable for Class Cut Filia?

I'd personally say the permanent bleed one!

 

[Dr_cpt.]

I'd personally say the permanent bleed one!

That's kind of tough call. Heavy bleed loses some of its "heft" in the conversion to perma bleed and I don't have enough experience with class cutter to know how fast she can stack them.

Then again, that 5%+15% Regen from leech is kind of underwhelming imo. Granted, classcutter will undoubtedly see a greater return than dreadlocks in terms of the health she gains, but the devs really need to buff leech to make it more useful (cuz 15% of the damage done by a filia generally isnt a lot of health)

I'd say 1st cut atm

 

[Fel]

That's kind of tough call. Heavy bleed loses some of its "heft" in the conversion to perma bleed and I don't have enough experience with class cutter to know how fast she can stack them.

Then again, that 5%+15% Regen from leech is kind of underwhelming imo. Granted, classcutter will undoubtedly see a greater return than dreadlocks in terms of the health she gains, but the devs really need to buff leech to make it more useful (cuz 15% of the damage done by a filia generally isnt a lot of health)

I'd say 1st cut atm

I think windswept is the only one who can justify running leech because she can be built pure damage rather than bleed. Class Cutter still needs some damage to achieve the heavy bleed and heal block so I think there is an argument for running either one, but permanent bleed is too nice to pass up when your SA helps inflicts bleed.

 

[infine]

That's kind of tough call. Heavy bleed loses some of its "heft" in the conversion to perma bleed and I don't have enough experience with class cutter to know how fast she can stack them.

Actually there was some fight modifier that did heavy bleed, and using PW/BHD was fun, because typically it was running several permableeds, several regular bleeds and a heavy bleed. Together they were murdering stuff extra fast.

The problem is 5% threshold. Another fighter with "deal 5% or more to make stuff happen" we have is Claw. The hardest hit she does is with Cat Slide, which for me has about x0.95 damage multiplier (I assume it depends on move level, mine is lvl6).

I checked PW Filia, and her hardest easily accessible hits are sweep with about x0.5 damage multiplier and the final hit of Gregor Samson with about x0.65 damage multiplier. OFC T2 and T3 BBs can do better, but they are probably bad as far as potential bleed sources go.

To do as much damage with a single hit as lvl 50 gold Claw does with the slide, Class Cutter has to have about 10K base ATK, so lvl 40-45 diamond.

Now it depends on what you are fighting. My Claw has circa 8.5K ATK with move bonuses (about +45% ATK), which translates into meter lock up to 160K EHP with Slide. A good defensive fighter has around 80K EHP stock (40K HP, 50% def), 160K EHP would be what? Streak 25? On top of that Claw has access to Fiber Upper which pushes the limit to about streak 30. Of course there are also possible crits and death mark too.

So if you get a lvl 40 Class Cutter with +50% ATK you can guarantee yourself heavy bleeds off a sweep up to about streak 25 and up to about 30 with Gregor which is actually not that awesome.

In practice not all teams have defensive fighters that good, and for me Claw typically works up to streak 40 if you choose your opponents right. But that involves crits and armor break.

TL;DR after doing some math and extrapolating with Claw, Class Cutter doesn't seem to be able to reliably proc her second SA at high streaks unless you invest heavily into ATK and possibly crit. Which makes permableed MA questionable. Again, without heavy investment into ATK.

 

[pigpigpigwwf]

For Double in high streak ...
I am particularly interested in (confused about) Rainbow and Jaw.

Some say Double can always go with Chaos, but it seems like a waste on Rainbow & Jaw, whose special takes advantage of transmutation.

What is your opinion?
Also, please comment on "how much weaker" if the sub-optimal option is chosen in your opinion.

(If only they let us switch the whole tree with that Theonite charge D: )

 

[Scorialimit]

For Double in high streak ...
I am particularly interested in (confused about) Rainbow and Jaw.

Some say Double can always go with Chaos, but it seems like a waste on Rainbow & Jaw, whose special takes advantage of transmutation.

What is your opinion?
Also, please comment on "how much weaker" if the sub-optimal option is chosen in your opinion.

(If only they let us switch the whole tree with that Theonite charge D: )

My Rainbow initially had Volatiilty. While nice, it didn't really help her do anything she can't normally or make anything easier on offense. I later decided it was worth the theo to switch to Chaos. This made her a very consistent counter-fighter for non-dark difficult fighters, as it gave her two options to counter them. Sheltered let me keep her Crit Rate low to fight MAWheels consistently with her, and every transmute that wasn't light or element-advantage has a 50% chance to let me counter them.

I'd say Volatility is okay, but the state of debuffs makes Chaos so much better if you can keep advantage to an even somewhat reasonable degree.

I don't have Jaw, but I'd use her Taunt for buffs instead of Volatility. 10/20 seconds of uptime isn't terrible, but you can beef up a taunt to the point where you can (almost) always have a buff up anyways. That way you can still utilize Chaos when you're at advantage.

Right now Volatility feels more for defense doubles than offense. It's actually pretty annoying on defense, but I'd only recommend it on offense if you really can't keep advantage.

 

[fanghoul]

For Double in high streak ...
I am particularly interested in (confused about) Rainbow and Jaw.

Some say Double can always go with Chaos, but it seems like a waste on Rainbow & Jaw, whose special takes advantage of transmutation.

My max chaos diamond Doublicious has pretty easily taken out people with twice her fight score when she's at elemental advantage. It's very possible to lose a lot of time (and the fight) waiting for her to get to elemental advantage though. One way to look at Rainbow Blight and Jawbreaker is that unlike most Doubles, they have a really good backup plan if they've transformed elements 5 times and still haven't gotten to the right element yet.

 

[Reshiram18]

For Double in high streak ...
I am particularly interested in (confused about) Rainbow and Jaw.

Some say Double can always go with Chaos, but it seems like a waste on Rainbow & Jaw, whose special takes advantage of transmutation.

What is your opinion?
Also, please comment on "how much weaker" if the sub-optimal option is chosen in your opinion.

(If only they let us switch the whole tree with that Theonite charge D: )

Here are my thoughts on Chaos vs Volatility on Rainbow and Jawbreaker.
On Rainbow Chaos is the far stronger option. While you will miss out on some of the buffs that Rainbow can get through transmuting, Chaos provides a far longer range of debuffs than the Rainbow SA does, which means that in the debuff department Chaos is a straight upgrade compared to what the Rainbow SA is capable of.
On Jawbreaker it is a different story. While taunt was brought up as an option for giving Jawbreaker her boost while still getting Chaos, it can also be combined with Volatility to just do more raw damage. In my opinion, Volatility is better on Jawbreaker because Jawbreaker is meant to simply hit things really hard. Volatility allows her to hit things harder, and Chaos does that far less reliably. Additionally, debuffs simply do not matter if you are able to finish off your opponent with one combo into one grab(which is something that Jawbreaker is easily capable of).

 

[pigpigpigwwf]

My Rainbow initially had Volatiilty. While nice, it didn't really help her do anything she can't normally or make anything easier on offense. I later decided it was worth the theo to switch to Chaos. This made her a very consistent counter-fighter for non-dark difficult fighters, as it gave her two options to counter them. Sheltered let me keep her Crit Rate low to fight MAWheels consistently with her, and every transmute that wasn't light or element-advantage has a 50% chance to let me counter them.

I'd say Volatility is okay, but the state of debuffs makes Chaos so much better if you can keep advantage to an even somewhat reasonable degree.

I don't have Jaw, but I'd use her Taunt for buffs instead of Volatility. 10/20 seconds of uptime isn't terrible, but you can beef up a taunt to the point where you can (almost) always have a buff up anyways. That way you can still utilize Chaos when you're at advantage.

Right now Volatility feels more for defense doubles than offense. It's actually pretty annoying on defense, but I'd only recommend it on offense if you really can't keep advantage.

I am confused about a few points you mentioned:
1) Why giving Rainbow Chaos let her become a very consistent counter-fighter for "non-dark" fighters? Why can't she counter dark fighters?
2) Which "two options" are offered to counter non-dark fighters?
3) Why does Sheltered let you keep Rainbow Crit Rate "low" ? I thought Sheltered raises Crit Rate.
4) Why every transmute that "wasn't light or element-advantage" gives you chances to counter them? What's the significance of not "light or element-advantage"? I thought Chaos only activates when Rainbow is "at an element-advantage" and inflicts crit hit?
5) Why "50%" chance?

Lastly, 6) do I need to re-build Marquee after switch or does the ranks carry over ?

Sorry, I was a bit confused....

 

[Scorialimit]

Sorry, I was a bit confused....

No worries, it's a lot of information. I'll do my best to clarify!

1) Why giving Rainbow Chaos let her become a very consistent counter-fighter for "non-dark" fighters? Why can't she counter dark fighters?

Light gives both elemental advantage and Hex against them, so you can't rely on one or the other. You get both or neither.

Which "two options" are offered to counter non-dark fighters?

Elemental Advantage for Chaos to gain a large arsenal of debuffs, including Hex, Heal Block, and Curse (as well as Bleed and Disables which often do the job as well, not to mention that new debuff when Robo comes)

Why does Sheltered let you keep Rainbow Crit Rate "low" ? I thought Sheltered raises Crit Rate.

Should've clarified, I build her with low crit rate (I think mine is at 26% right now) and Sheltered raises it to be reliable to inflict debuffs when I want to. This way I don't need to build her crit rate normally. You can build her with higher crit rate if you want, but it makes her struggle more against MA Painwheels so I personally don't find it worth it when the solution is easy.

Why every transmute that "wasn't light or element-advantage" gives you chances to counter them? What's the significance of not "light or element-advantage"? I thought Chaos only activates when Rainbow is "at an element-advantage" and inflicts crit hit?

If you're starting at an element that isn't light or already elemental advantage, then two of the four elements you can transmute to are either light or an elemental advantage. When you're on those elements you can already counter them, although in Light's case it can wear off so you have to transmute more.

Why "50%" chance?

I think my response to the previous question answered this, but for the sake of showing math: 1/4 chance for every element you are not on unless you're neutral, in which case it's 1/5. One option to counter is Light and one is Advantage, so 2/4 chance to get a counter condition. 50% chance to get one of those two, or 40% at neutral (compared to 25% and 20% without Chaos).

do I need to re-build Marquee after switch or does the ranks carry over ?

Unfortunately yes. While any levels on one MA stay on that one, both of them level separately.