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Fights On the subject of Invincible Fullscreen Unblockables

ThanatosDK

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There needs to be a damage nerf of some type. A fully charged bb3 should not be a kill condition, specially considering that on a long enough win streak you're at such a stat disadvantage that it is not a win condition for your own team.
The AI cerebella unblockables combo strings is its own issue that'll eventually surface.

They can be thrown out with no fear of a counter to it. At the least there should be ones that can be blocked but still deal a lot of chip damage.
 
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moisterrific

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You're pretty much guaranteed to survive every unblockable blockbuster if you maxed out your fighter's defence stat. My Armed Forces Cerebella has 50% defence and this Peacock's gold Good Fellows barely scratched her.

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ThanatosDK

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You're at a huge stat advantage there. Of course you survived it. My point was about how it's a kill condition when stat difference reach a certain point. I've taken out 3 5k stat opponents with a single 3k unit but if any of them roll with a bb3 then it's a different story. since you are at a stat advantage, bb3 is not relevant to your play because you can muscle through it.
 

moisterrific

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You're at a huge stat advantage there. Of course you survived it. My point was about how it's a kill condition when stat difference reach a certain point. I've taken out 3 5k stat opponents with a single 3k unit but if any of them roll with a bb3 then it's a different story. since you are at a stat advantage, bb3 is not relevant to your play because you can muscle through it.

The whole point of why I recommend getting 50% defence for nearly every fighter is so you can have a better chance of surviving a BB3. Stats are an important part of this game and no amount of "skill" will enable you to beat a 20K FS team with a lvl 1 fighter.
 

missingno

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I do not, in the slightest, take your argument lightly or as folly. I think you, and those who share your sentiments, may just be looking for a game that is not this one.
Perhaps you may be right. But I will say it's not like I hate RPGs or anything, hell those single-player grindy modes in ArcSys fighters have always been a guilty pleasure of mine (though I always stop having fun once I get to the endgame where they start throwing equally stupid nonsense at you...). I just want them to be designed well, and BB3s are where I feel it's just too much.
  1. Have high enough damage per second to defeat them before anyone manages to fully charge their BB3
  2. Use fighters like Armed Forces or Resonant Evil and max out their defence stat and signature abilities so you can tank it out
  3. Use fighters like Big Top or Last Hope and max out signature abilities so you can revive after taking the entire BB3
  4. Sacrifice one of your weaker or near dead fighters to the incoming unblockable
  5. Have a Valentine on your team and equip her with Forbidden Procedure BB2 so you can revive a teammate who got killed by an unblockable
  6. Predict the opponent's behaviour and combo them into oblivion before they get a chance to use BB3 if they've already fully charged it. Usually this works well when you have a BB1 or BB2 since they're faster to charge up
  7. Enter or end Sekhmet mode at the right time to fully avoid an unblockable
  8. If you git rly gud, do a back dash at precisely the right moment to fully evade the incoming unblockable, I've seen enemies do it a bunch of times before so I believe us players can too
I addressed most of these in my original post. I don't mind debating further with you, but only if you're going to actually read what I write! For the ones that don't already fall under what I previously wrote, I'll indulge you just this once, but for the rest you're gonna have to scroll back up.

2 and 3 - Not only character-specific, but palette-specific. Doesn't really help the rest of the cast. Everyone should have an answer, not just a few specific palettes.
6 - Not really consistent. You can't always avoid knocking them down, they're going to do it on wakeup. Throwing out your own super first might work sometimes, but you're just hoping they decide not to block it, or else they can throw theirs out afterwards. The AI may not be that good, but I don't like just banking on them letting me get away with what would otherwise be really stupid gambles.
7 - Character-specific. And not everyone has Eliza yet anyway.
 
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ThanatosDK

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I think that's another extreme and something I'm not hinting at as acceptable (responding to moist). Hyperbole isn't helping any.

Back to the relevant subject,

Stats are important, 100% agree, I mention it earlier that 3k vs 8k where the 3k unit barely chips the opponent with full combos is an acceptable "wall". Getting 100 to 0 from a single move or win condition is not a fun mechanic to have in a game. If I lose to an opponent with a great stat advantage where I was timed out or died to full combos or any other option where I have an answer to I would take that L because it was fair. Getting your opponent at a stat advantage to 20% while you're still at 100% and they wake up bb3 you for an immediate win is not fun, more so when you do not have the same option when at the same state.
 

moisterrific

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"Fun" is subjective, I find every BB3 to be fun to play with and against. And from my experience after playing this game for nearly 3 months, no BB3 is a guaranteed kill from full HP unless you're at a severe stat disadvantage. If you lost in that case then maybe you should upgrade your fighters and moves to be stronger.
 

ThanatosDK

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If only there was a good source of exp that used non PF energy that does not dry up after 15 matches.
Since a large majority of this game is the grind, not necessarily the end game, I do think things need to be a bit more balanced with that in mind.
Let's face it, 99% of players will never reach 3 max level golds with all gold equips and perks so we shouldn't balance the fun or available answers to the opponent around that scenario. My bad using an easily focused on buzzword twice.
 

moisterrific

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If only there was a good source of exp that used non PF energy that does not dry up after 15 matches.
PF is a great source of XP, especially the gold one. You'll always get the underdog bonus unless your team's total FS is closer to 20K.

Let's face it, 99% of players will never reach 3 max level golds with all gold equips and perks so we shouldn't balance the fun or available answers to the opponent around that scenario.
Anyone can reach that level if they played long enough. I've been playing for awhile now so it's not surprising that I have several max lvl golds and all gold moves. I started from the bottom like everyone else, so if I can do it then so can anyone else.
 

ThanatosDK

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I don't think having to dedicate a hundred hours or more into the game should be the gatekeeper for an answer to unblockable bb3. That feels like a poor design choice
 

moisterrific

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I don't think having to dedicate a hundred hours or more into the game should be the gatekeeper for an answer to unblockable bb3. That feels like a poor design choice

If you don't wanna spend time then you'll have to spend money. That's the case with every F2P game, even though this one is surprisingly generous. And no one is forcing you to fight opponents significantly stronger than your team, you always pick your own fights so it's your choice to get rekt by BB3 from a 4x stronger opponent.
 

RedBeene

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I played about 25 hours before passing the point where BB3's mean nothing to my main team.
Although, they didn't mean much before, except that they made the game more fun because my wins were no longer 100% guaranteed, I actually had to try. I'm not a casual player I guess, but that's why it took me so few days to reach that point. If a casual player wants to reach my point, or even more dauntingly moisterrifics point, it should take longer.

Edit: I mean, do you just want to win regardless of levels or time committed? Just always win? Because the AI is milquetoast without BB3 guaranteeing a lot of damage.
 
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guitalex2007

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you always pick your own fights so it's your choice to get rekt by BB3 from a 4x stronger opponent.
I know you already have a very powerful team so maybe you don't notice this, but you're 100% wrong.

You get three choices of team that take your team total and decide what strength team to choose FOR YOU based on that and your streak. It is 100% possible to use nothing but weak 300 power silvers and after streak 4 or 5 start finding teams of a total of 3k or more.

You do NOT get to pick from an infinite amount of teams. You do NOT decide what your next team's total power will be.
 

guitalex2007

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Although, that is one legitimate thing I could suggest. Maybe out of the three PREDETERMINED teams, maybe the game does NOT scale up the power of one of them? Won't gain as many points and won't deal with the issue the same way.

Everyone can then progress slowly instead of finding insurmountable brick walls, BB3s can still kill but they will be infrequent at similar levels etc.
 

ThanatosDK

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It has nothing to do with wanting free wins, it has everything to do with wanting the losses to be fair.
This game shouldn't be based around the bb3 meta specially when the balance in the original SG was that they required meter that was shared between specials where as here they are independent.
Where is the fairness in losing against a bb3 when your opponent wakes up into it? There is no counter to it apart from out stat-ing it. I get that this game is 50% mobage 50% fighter and mobage have taboo rules about balance, but the loss should come from poor play not because the tactic the opponent used has no answer to it.


Edit: for the lawful evil:
Although, that is one legitimate thing I could suggest. Maybe out of the three PREDETERMINED teams, maybe the game does NOT scale up the power of one of them? Won't gain as many points and won't deal with the issue the same way.

Everyone can then progress slowly instead of finding insurmountable brick walls, BB3s can still kill but they will be infrequent at similar levels etc.
True, even FE allows you to select opponents based on stat values and number of skills equipped.
 
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moisterrific

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You get three choices of team that take your team total and decide what strength team to choose FOR YOU based on that and your streak. It is 100% possible to use nothing but weak 300 power silvers and after streak 4 or 5 start finding teams of a total of 3k or more.
New Although, that is one legitimate thing I could suggest. Maybe out of the three PREDETERMINED teams, maybe the game does NOT scale up the power of one of them? Won't gain as many points and won't deal with the issue the same way.

Everyone can then progress slowly instead of finding insurmountable brick walls, BB3s can still kill but they will be infrequent at similar levels etc.
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but the loss should come from poor play not because the tactic the opponent used has no answer to it.
It is poor play when there are at least 6 different methods to counter a BB3 and you refuse to use any of them.
 

ThanatosDK

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I get that you will not budge on your opinion, but can you let us give our feedback and suggestions without shooting down any view different from your own?

You're getting those small stat differences because the stat cap for silvers is around 3k. With the lack of exp and restricting golds to only be able to participate in PFG it is to be expect that the stats will scale far beyond the stat difference you are showing.
 

guitalex2007

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Guest? Really?

Though it's good to see there's a ceiling, somehow you're not matched with any 4k in streak 4, which is fun for you.

edit: Also, try Gold.
 

moisterrific

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I get that you will not budge on your opinion, but can you let us give our feedback and suggestions without shooting down any view different from your own?

Your feedback (and a few others') is that BB3s should be changed. My feedback is they're perfectly fine as they are right now and no change of any sorts is necessary. If this thread regarding BB3 balance consisted exclusively of opinions that they're "unfair and should be nerfed", it would be inconclusive to the devs since it would only show the perspective from one side of the argument.
 

ThanatosDK

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I feel the way your present your argument is very toxic to the community, particularly when you've specificslly said "git gud lol" to players presenting feedback to issues they've faced. I think that sullies your credibility to the devs when reviewing the feedback you present.
I think saying you are just presenting the other side of the argument is a poor excuse to not create your own thread on why BB3 should exist in its current incarnation rather than hijack.
 
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