Fights Reworking suggestion of “Poor Moves”

[Aoskull]

There are a lot of strong moves in SGM, but some moves are very difficult to handle that there is almost no merit to put it in your slot. So, I made some reworking suggestions of these “poor moves”!

Butt Slam (Cerebella)
Old: Have a 25/50/100% increased CRIT RATE.
New : UNBLOCKABLE (from level 3). On hit, gain DEADEYE for 7/10/12 seconds.
• Lock’n load already has crit increasing effect and also has super armor, butt slam is really backward compatibility for it.
• To add unblockable effect, it covers very slow start-up and makes it easier to use for surprise attack from ranged distance and attack for opponent who has been recovered from down. As a follow-up for removal of crit increase, I added deadeye for more effective offense.

Flesh Step (Double)
Old: None
New: Gain 1/2/3 stacks of EVASION for 10 seconds.
• Move in front of opponent is full of risk and almost no returns, flesh step is not used, even if it has good stats. ( I have flesh step with ATK, Piercing and Meter gain)
• Adding evasion can lead Double to get into the close-range fight more safe and quickly than before, making it easier to maintain an offensive cycle. Also, having multiple buff is really fits with some variants, especially Evergreen and Jawbreaker.

Dive of Horus (Eliza)
Makes opponent in the air to bounce
• It has no bounce against aerial opponent, cannot be used to connect aerial combos. Attack range is also short, difficult to handle it on the ground too. Due to these facts, it tends to be overshadowed by Chaos Vanish and Upper Khat.
• Allows to bounce opponent in the air can lead her easier to continue aerial combos combined with Chaos Vanish or Upper Khat.

Center Stage (Squigly)
Old: None
New: 50/75/100% to swap 1 opponent’s buff and her debuff.
• There's nothing wrong with the effect itself, but usage is really limited and it cannot unleash full potential if it's not being charged. Also, it doesn't have any additional effects, which is a shame.
• In my opinion, adding swapping effect can be a really good counter against some fighters (especially Death Wish and Unholy!), and let her shine in more situations.
• Even if one of them does not have a buff or debuff, it can be used to impose a debuff or steal a buff

Crones (Fukua)
Remove HP decreasing effect
• Although “placing and activate anytime” is the selling point of crone moves, it seems to be less used and overshadowed by other moves due to the loss of HP while placing it (especially in defense). Remove it to allow her to use it more easily and widely.

Cruel Lily (Painwheel)
Make it cancelable with BB
• It is really not work as a combo parts and also weak as a single move, it would be a good idea to make it cancelable with BB. With this change, It will surely increase the variety of combos.

Ashes to Ashes (Squigly)
Make it cancelable with BB
• Same as Cruel Lily, it is really not work as a combo parts and also weak as a single move, it would be a good idea to make it cancelable with BB.

Violet Grudge (Painwheel)
Onslaught (Dahlia)
Sweet Clarinet (Big Band)
Make it to use in the air
• Originally these are aerial/air OK moves, it would be a good idea to allow it to use in the air.

 

[MDude]

Cruel Lily (Painwheel)
Make it cancelable with BB
• It is really not work as a combo parts and also weak as a single move,

Because it's used as a combo ender or to avoid having the opponent dashing into you. It's one of Rusty's best moves to inflict bleed

Butt Slam (Cerebella)
Old: Have a 25/50/100% increased CRIT RATE.
New : UNBLOCKABLE (from level 3). On hit, gain DEADEYE for 7/10/12 seconds.

No point on giving it new effects if the move still takes so long to activate hell, Double's version is the most efective and quicker of the two.

Flesh Step (Double)
Old: None
New: Gain 1/2/3 stacks of EVASION for 10 seconds.
• Move in front of opponent is full of risk and almost no returns, flesh step is not used, even if it has good stats. ( I have flesh step with ATK, Piercing and Meter gain)
• Adding evasion can lead Double to get into the close-range fight more safe and quickly than before, making it easier to maintain an offensive cycle. Also, having multiple buff is really fits with some variants, especially Evergreen and Jawbreaker.

The almost most useless move in the game (only thing it can evade is the Medici mousetrap). The evade is a great idea since it can save your bacon if you mess up

Dive of Horus (Eliza)
Makes opponent in the air to bounce
• It has no bounce against aerial opponent, cannot be used to connect aerial combos. Attack range is also short, difficult to handle it on the ground too. Due to these facts, it tends to be overshadowed by Chaos Vanish and Upper Khat.
• Allows to bounce opponent in the air can lead her easier to continue aerial combos combined with Chaos Vanish or Upper Khat.

I don't understand it either, the angle they come you would think the opponent would bounce (like Umbrella's puddle) but has a long bum recovery and doesn't allow for a follow up, although granted Eliza does have a lot of combo options so it isn't that bad to reduce her spam.

Center Stage (Squigly)
Old: None
New: 50/75/100% to swap 1 opponent’s buff and her debuff.
• There's nothing wrong with the effect itself, but usage is really limited and it cannot unleash full potential if it's not being charged. Also, it doesn't have any additional effects, which is a shame.
• In my opinion, adding swapping effect can be a really good counter against some fighters (especially Death Wish and Unholy!), and let her shine in more situations.
• Even if one of them does not have a buff or debuff, it can be used to impose a debuff or steal a buff

Best move to deal with Turtling A.I.

Crones (Fukua)
Remove HP decreasing effect
• Although “placing and activate anytime” is the selling point of crone moves, it seems to be less used and overshadowed by other moves due to the loss of HP while placing it (especially in defense). Remove it to allow her to use it more easily and widely.

I don't know about this one, while the setup leaves Fukua vulnerable, I've seen some crazy bum combo with her clones.

Ashes to Ashes (Squigly)
Make it cancelable with BB
• Same as Cruel Lily, it is really not work as a combo parts and also weak as a single move, it would be a good idea to make it cancelable with BB.

This move work wonders on a corner when finishing a regular G5/A5 combo, plus Wither is a good debuff to inflict.

Violet Grudge (Painwheel)
Onslaught (Dahlia)
Sweet Clarinet (Big Band)
Make it to use in the air
• Originally these are aerial/air OK moves, it would be a good idea to allow it to use in the air.

Aerial Onslaught? That move is already too strong as it is RN. The other two kinda make sense.

 

[Stone]

Cool ideas! my opinion on a few:

Butt Slam (Cerebella)
Old: Have a 25/50/100% increased CRIT RATE.
New : UNBLOCKABLE (from level 3). On hit, gain DEADEYE for 7/10/12 seconds.

I love this change. It's a really bad move atm with the longest charge up time in the game. making it unblockable justifies this charge. while bella already has unblockables (merry gorilla, diamond drop) the granting of deadeye makes this move worth using, probably.

Ashes to Ashes (Squigly)
Make it cancelable with BB

the french twist buff. But just like french twist, this wont justify ever using this buff over other, far better moves in squigly's kit.

Cruel Lily (Painwheel)
Make it cancelable with BB

same can be said here, except she doesnt have that many good moves to begin with. While this is needed, it should still be better.

Center Stage (Squigly)
Old: None
New: 50/75/100% to swap 1 opponent’s buff and her debuff.

Yes! good idea

Flesh Step (Double)
Old: None
New: Gain 1/2/3 stacks of EVASION for 10 seconds.

I always thought it should change double's element, but this is also a really good idea. 3 stacks of 10s EVASION does sound a bit strong (especially on defense), so i would shorten the duration by a lot (to just give a brief opening after using it) or lower the max evasion to 1

 

[Dusty00]

Some really good ideas here! Especially like adding newer buffs to improve a character’s kit. Bella gaining deadeye is a good idea, though I’d like to see that on Painwheel.


Maybe what we need is an overall moves running rather than just buffing. Devs have done it a long time ago when they added a few new moves.

Unpopular opinion but some moves like Chaos Banish is just too good…

 

[SvenZ]

Was thinking of making a thread like this myself, and will do so in the future, but I definitely like some of these.

I feel like Butt Slam is a very underestimated move. It's easy to trick the AI to get a guarenteed hit, and it's pretty much your safest tool to get near the opponent. It does not open up to combos and it provides no combo extensions, but I think that's perfectly fine, considering it's safe to use at medium to high distance.

So in short, I'm against it being unblockable, that's just going to be annoying. But I do like giving it Deadeye, as a means to deal with Evasion and Unflinching, so good call there