Characters Suggestions for some basic ability’s nerf

[Aoskull]

I have made many suggestions for buffing so far, but nerfing is sometimes necessary to maintain balance of the match environment. Therefore, I’ll post suggestions for nerf some of the destructive elements.

Ringlet Spike
Old: Inflict BLEED for 4/8/12 second on hit

New: 25/35/50% to inflict BLEED for 5/7/10 seconds on hit

- Since Ringlet can unconditionally inflict 12-second bleed, makes it very powerful offensively and make other moves less valuable. Because of this, there is no Filia with an offense rating below A on the tier list (even the defensive Dread and Curl Scout have A)
I've nerfed the chance and duration to bring it in line with other moves.

Chaos Vanish
Old: Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Effective against blocking)

New:Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 5/7/10 seconds (Not effective against blocking)

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 25/30/35% to inflict STUN for 4 seconds on hit

Weight of Anubis
Increase basic CT to 30 seconds

Blood Oath
Old: Whenever a teammate has defeated, heal 30/50% health.

New: When defeating an opponent, heal 20/30% health.

- As I mentioned in a previous thread, Eliza has some of the strongest base abilities of all fighters. To mitigate this, I have nerfed her Chaos Vanish, which is really OP among all moves, Upper Khat, which can very easily inflict a 6 sec stun, and Anubis, which can force opponents to get closer and engage in close-range combat.
- However, these changes would be a big blow to her, adjusted Blood Oath to make it easier to use.

Bellows Blast
Old: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Effective against blocking)

New: 25/35/50% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Not effective against blocking)

- Bellows Blast is a move that is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it. It is so useful that it seems to have diminished the diversity of her move set.
- The fact that it can be activated on block is a big plus. By removing that and also reducing the activation chance, giving her more room to choose other moves in her build.

No time to die
Old: When suffering a critical hit, gain REGEN and HASTE for 5/15 seconds.

New: While above 50% health, suffering a critical hit grants REGEN and HASTE for 5/15 seconds.

- No Time to Die is one of the marquee that currently wreaking on defense. PW's Tainted Blood has the same condition, but it's not as much of a problem since it can be easily countered with Beo or Cerebella.
- Dahlia has high HP, so throwing alone is not enough to deal with her, and even if you try to use Inverse Polarity, you will have a hard time depending on the enemy's team build or catalysts (max resistance, Model leader, Autoimmune etc.). By adding a condition for it to activate, reduce its current strength and give many fighters more room to counter it.

Chaos
Old:When at an elemental advantage, inflict a random debuff for 5/15 seconds when landing critical hit

New: When at an elemental advantage, inflict a random debuff for 5/10 seconds when landing critical hit or every 7th hit combo.

- I saw a rework suggestion for Chaos on another thread, and it seems to make a lot of sense. However, I personally feel it's still a bit too strong, so I'd like to tweak it just a little, turn a 3 combo into a 7 combo.

 

[Kheul]

Hey, I agree some nerfs can be implemented for the balancement of the game. Let's see...

Ringlet Spike
Old: Inflict BLEED for 4/8/12 second on hit

New: 25/35/50% to inflict BLEED for 5/7/10 seconds on hit

- Since Ringlet can unconditionally inflict 12-second bleed, makes it very powerful offensively and make other moves less valuable. Because of this, there is no Filia with an offense rating below A on the tier list (even the defensive Dread and Curl Scout have A)
I've nerfed the chance and duration to bring it in line with other moves.

This move overperforms yeah, but this won't cause a change on my loadout. This will mostly hurt newer players because they won't be able to use the BLEED as easily to progress faster as both the chances and durations are gutted incredibly hard. I think current one is fine so newer players can progress faster, if anything its base damage can be lowered, but not necessary. Also her other special moves doesn't provide any real usage that can be considered as an alternative anyways.

Chaos Vanish
Old: Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Effective against blocking)

New:Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 5/7/10 seconds (Not effective against blocking)

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 25/30/35% to inflict STUN for 4 seconds on hit

Weight of Anubis
Increase basic CT to 30 seconds

Blood Oath
Old: Whenever a teammate has defeated, heal 30/50% health.

New: When defeating an opponent, heal 20/30% health.

- As I mentioned in a previous thread, Eliza has some of the strongest base abilities of all fighters. To mitigate this, I have nerfed her Chaos Vanish, which is really OP among all moves, Upper Khat, which can very easily inflict a 6 sec stun, and Anubis, which can force opponents to get closer and engage in close-range combat.
- However, these changes would be a big blow to her, adjusted Blood Oath to make it easier to use.

Durations doesn't need to change on Chaos Banish. Upper Khat is gutted a bit too hard, I would go with 25/35/50% for 4 sec STUN. Weight of Anubis sounds good. I don't think the new Blood Oath will make most late-game players unlock crit for that, but it would surely be better than the current one.

Bellows Blast
Old: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Effective against blocking)

New: 25/35/50% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Not effective against blocking)

- Bellows Blast is a move that is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it. It is so useful that it seems to have diminished the diversity of her move set.
- The fact that it can be activated on block is a big plus. By removing that and also reducing the activation chance, giving her more room to choose other moves in her build.

OOF. I would never use it again after this change. I'm not chancing some crucial DEBUFFS not transferring. This move is not essential but it does fullfill its role really well, I don't play Marie with a specific moveset, her moves are designed quite well compared to other characters' moves and I change my moves depending on what I am fighting against.

No time to die
Old: When suffering a critical hit, gain REGEN and HASTE for 5/15 seconds.

New: While above 50% health, suffering a critical hit grants REGEN and HASTE for 5/15 seconds.

- No Time to Die is one of the marquee that currently wreaking on defense. PW's Tainted Blood has the same condition, but it's not as much of a problem since it can be easily countered with Beo or Cerebella.
- Dahlia has high HP, so throwing alone is not enough to deal with her, and even if you try to use Inverse Polarity, you will have a hard time depending on the enemy's team build or catalysts (max resistance, Model leader, Autoimmune etc.). By adding a condition for it to activate, reduce its current strength and give many fighters more room to counter it.

90% of the time those who are complain about her Marquee are the newer players. This won't help newer players or change the way I deal with her. As they even struggle to reduce Dahlia's HP a bit, let alone 50%. This actually makes it weirder to deal with, as inverse polarity can deal with her easily right now, this will be a indirect nerf to inverse polarity as she won't be gaining regen below 50%.

Chaos
Old:When at an elemental advantage, inflict a random debuff for 5/15 seconds when landing critical hit

New: When at an elemental advantage, inflict a random debuff for 5/10 seconds when landing critical hit or every 7th hit combo.

- I saw a rework suggestion for Chaos on another thread, and it seems to make a lot of sense. However, I personally feel it's still a bit too strong, so I'd like to tweak it just a little, turn a 3 combo into a 7 combo.

Man I just posted it c'mon xd.

 

[Stone]

Chaos banish has no reason to work on block anyways, agree that part should be removed!

Ringlet spike could definitely see such a nerf, But I would like to see her other moves have some actual utility too (instead of just doing nothing or close to nothing with no damage scaling)

Chaos
Old:When at an elemental advantage, inflict a random debuff for 5/15 seconds when landing critical hit

New: When at an elemental advantage, inflict a random debuff for 5/10 seconds when landing critical hit or every 7th hit combo.

- I saw a rework suggestion for Chaos on another thread, and it seems to make a lot of sense. However, I personally feel it's still a bit too strong, so I'd like to tweak it just a little, turn a 3 combo into a 7 combo.

Honesty, this is a straight up nerf. You can see it as an extra 1/7th chance to inflict a debuff, but every debuff is 2/3rd is duration. You'd still want to invest in crit anyways making this essentially a nerf with no real benefit.

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 25/30/35% to inflict STUN for 4 seconds on hit

While this is definely more reasonable, if it were just 4 seconds it removes any use it had for tag combos using the stun would just result in a safe tag in, which a launcher or weight of anubis would also accomplish, Hence creating another redundant move that wont see use anymore.

- Bellows Blast is a move that is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it. It is so useful that it seems to have diminished the diversity of her move set.

Shouldnt be a reason to nerf a move. Like kheul said this would kill the move. Its a goo move because it brings utility you can count on working.

You could make the exact sam argument for immunity taunts, which are generaly more useful at 'removing' (preventing) buffs. would it fit to make those taunt only have a 50-80% to actually give the buff? Not fun and VERY frustrating in high stake matches were you need to be able to rely on your moves.

Overall, my main feedback is that you shouldn't kill the utility (dependability) of a move when you nerf it, just make it less strong (like ringlet and banish)

A quick example: BFF has an amazing effect but due to its bad chances it is hardly ever used in high stake matches other than just for the damage, not for the effect.

 

[Kheul]

Honesty, this is a straight up nerf. You can see it as an extra 1/7th chance to inflict a debuff, but every debuff is 2/3rd is duration. You'd still want to invest in crit anyways making this essentially a nerf with no real benefit.

That idea is from my previous post Buffing Weaker Kits: Double with different wording and numbers. I would have preferred this to be debated on my post where I suggested other actual improvements for her so my proposed rework can be acceptable. But I was mentioned as just "another thread" even though my idea was directly used. It is just not nice :/

 

[Stone]

But I was mentioned as just "another thread" even though my idea was directly used. It is just not nice :/

I dont think this was their intention! ill check your thread now =)

 

[ExquisitePain]

Chaos banish has no reason to work on block anyways, agree that part should be removed!

Chaos should always work even on block hits. That's the only thing why I like the move alot. No restriction, I can deal with Last Stand users because if it.

 

[ExquisitePain]

As an Eliza Main myself, I don't think those move change should happen.

Chaos Vanish
Old: Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Effective against blocking)

New:Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 5/7/10 seconds (Not effective against blocking)

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 25/30/35% to inflict STUN for 4 seconds on hit

Weight of Anubis
Increase basic CT to 30 seconds

Blood Oath
Old: Whenever a teammate has defeated, heal 30/50% health.

New: When defeating an opponent, heal 20/30% health.

- As I mentioned in a previous thread, Eliza has some of the strongest base abilities of all fighters. To mitigate this, I have nerfed her Chaos Vanish, which is really OP among all moves, Upper Khat, which can very easily inflict a 6 sec stun, and Anubis, which can force opponents to get closer and engage in close-range combat.
- However, these changes would be a big blow to her, adjusted Blood Oath to make it easier to use.

- Chaos Banish was the best move Eliza has, and removing the blocked hits effect will have quite an impact to my play style.

- Upper Khat stun chance will make me stop using it even if I got it to level 15. The stun duration is a complete nerf due to the fact that her L1~L5 take exactly 4 seconds to end, and doing another round of L5 won't happen anymore.

- Weight of Anubis CT from 10 to 30 up is a big NO-NO, I don't rarely use Anubis Spiral strat, but this will completely ruin her ability to loop with Harle consecutively after Osiris Spiral to Chaos Banish combo which the most basic loop strat Eliza has.

- Eliza's Marquee needs adjustments not just Blood Oath. As of right now, both MA relies you to sacrifice a teammate in order to get either Health% and Blockbuster Meter. In rifts, that's a big disadvantage in Offense, but good in Defense (not like there's a good Eliza for Defense anyway).

Bellows Blast
Old: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Effective against blocking)

New: 25/35/50% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Not effective against blocking)

- Bellows Blast is a move that is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it. It is so useful that it seems to have diminished the diversity of her move set.
- The fact that it can be activated on block is a big plus. By removing that and also reducing the activation chance, giving her more room to choose other moves in her build.

As for Bellow Blast, that move was my favorite when dealing with Death Wish. I hate to see it get nerfed and see that 50% to not happen.