Characters Suggestions for some nerf (second)

[Aoskull]

I made some miner changes for nerf suggestion that posted quite a while ago.

Ringlet Spike
Old: Inflict BLEED for 4/8/12 second on hit

New: 25/35/50% to inflict BLEED for 5/7/10 seconds on hit

- Since Ringlet can unconditionally inflict 12-second bleed, makes it very powerful offensively and make other moves less valuable. Because of this, there is no Filia with an offense rating below A on the tier list (even the defensive Dread and Curl Scout have A)
I've nerfed its chance and duration of bleed to bring it in line with other moves.

Chaos Vanish
Old: Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Effective against blocking)

New:Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Not effective against blocking)

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 15/25/35% to inflict STUN for 6 seconds on hit

Weight of Anubis
Increase basic CT to 30 seconds

- I believe that Eliza is the strongest fighter of SGM due to some OP moves. To mitigate this, I suggest to nerf Chaos Vanish, which is really broken among all moves, Upper Khat, which can very easily inflict a 6 sec stun, and Anubis, which can force opponents to get closer and engage in close-range combat.

Bellows Blast
Old: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Effective against blocking)

New: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Not effective against blocking)

- Bellows Blast is a move that is work as a countermeasure for most of debuff controller. It is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it.
The chance is acceptable since it has lower hits than Rotation Hazard, but the fact that it can be activated on block makes it OP I think. By removing that, it will give her more room to choose other moves in her build.

Chaos
Old: Critical hit when elemental advantage will inflict RANDOM DEBUFF for 15 sec

New: 50% chance on Critical hit and 15% chance on normal hit when elemental advantage will inflict RANDOM DEBUFF for 15 sec

- A big change from previous one. Chaos is incredibly effective in crit builds, applying a staggering number of 15 sec debuffs regardless of variant.
Although it depends on luck, you can inflict multiple powerful debuffs such as hex, curse, and BB disable, so in some cases you can neutralize your opponent and continue attacking unilaterally.
Nerfing the chance will make it less likely to dominate the game than before. However, to prevent from turning marquee choices into Volatility only, made a buff for builds that don't rely on crit.

 

[SvenZ]

Chaos honestly feels like a Signature Ability, rather than a Marquee

 

[Kheul]

Ringlet Spike
Old: Inflict BLEED for 4/8/12 second on hit

New: 25/35/50% to inflict BLEED for 5/7/10 seconds on hit

- Since Ringlet can unconditionally inflict 12-second bleed, makes it very powerful offensively and make other moves less valuable. Because of this, there is no Filia with an offense rating below A on the tier list (even the defensive Dread and Curl Scout have A)
I've nerfed its chance and duration of bleed to bring it in line with other moves.

Everyone will still continue to use Ringlet, there is literally no alternative in terms of utility and damage it provides. Also it is a really good tool for newer players to level up as quickly as possible, this move lets them progress much faster, no need to nerf it.

Chaos Vanish
Old: Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Effective against blocking)

New:Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Not effective against blocking)

Sure.

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 15/25/35% to inflict STUN for 6 seconds on hit

I mean it is a fun move, it is just that Eliza shouldn't have it as she already has so many tools. Completely changing it is also an option I think.

Weight of Anubis
Increase basic CT to 30 seconds

- I believe that Eliza is the strongest fighter of SGM due to some OP moves. To mitigate this, I suggest to nerf Chaos Vanish, which is really broken among all moves, Upper Khat, which can very easily inflict a 6 sec stun, and Anubis, which can force opponents to get closer and engage in close-range combat.

You can just equip two instead. Also I started to think Eliza is the necessary evil for high level rifts, it is true that she outperforms almost everyone but the game will always have a "best unit" anyways. So just culling Eliza doesn't really work when most units are unusable due to how outdated their kits are.

Bellows Blast
Old: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Effective against blocking)

New: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Not effective against blocking)

- Bellows Blast is a move that is work as a countermeasure for most of debuff controller. It is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it.
The chance is acceptable since it has lower hits than Rotation Hazard, but the fact that it can be activated on block makes it OP I think. By removing that, it will give her more room to choose other moves in her build.

You really, really want to nerf this huh. I still think this is really unnecessary. The move itself isn't really designed to be used mid-combo anyways, that only works at corners. No one is saying you gotta use this move, it is highly conditional and brings no real other (damage, comboability etc.) value to her gameplay.

Chaos
Old: Critical hit when elemental advantage will inflict RANDOM DEBUFF for 15 sec

New: 50% chance on Critical hit and 15% chance on normal hit when elemental advantage will inflict RANDOM DEBUFF for 15 sec

- A big change from previous one. Chaos is incredibly effective in crit builds, applying a staggering number of 15 sec debuffs regardless of variant.
Although it depends on luck, you can inflict multiple powerful debuffs such as hex, curse, and BB disable, so in some cases you can neutralize your opponent and continue attacking unilaterally.
Nerfing the chance will make it less likely to dominate the game than before. However, to prevent from turning marquee choices into Volatility only, made a buff for builds that don't rely on crit.

Proposing "just" a nerf to an already incredibly outdated unit whose only worth is this marquee is just beyond belief. I also proposed to change Chaos but not like this. I tried to improve all her other aspects instead of just nerfing the only noteworthy feature she currently has.

This is pretty much a repost, the only thing that has changed for me from the earlier one is my opinion about the Weight of Anubis nerf. Unless outdated characters are fundamentally reworked, we don't need a nerf like this at all. Because they have been making rifts a lot harder with many changes to catalysts and releasing new nasty defender units but almost nothing for the character kits. I don't want to see a nerf to an ACTUALLY usable character among many other before meaningful character reworks.

 

[SvenZ]

Everyone will still continue to use Ringlet, there is literally no alternative in terms of utility and damage it provides. Also it is a really good tool for newer players to level up as quickly as possible, this move lets them progress much faster, no need to nerf it.

There are many strong and cheap early game options tbh. I built my first Filia around lv65, and did perfectly fine without her beforehand and barely use her afterwards

I agree that the Eliza nerfs are a bit overwhelming, and there is no buff to compensate

 

[ExquisitePain]

Don't trust the tier list, just because Dread is rank A on it doesn't mean you have to nerf the moves.

Dread should be B at most regardless of what moves she uses.

I also do not like the majority of this nerfs. It would also cause some fights to be even more difficult.

 

[Kheul]

There are many strong and cheap early game options tbh. I built my first Filia around lv65, and did perfectly fine without her beforehand and barely use her afterwards

Of course. Back then when Ringlet Spike was useless I don't recall myself ever using Filia for anything and was already level 70.

I just think of the ringlet spike as a tool for newer players to somewhat skip the tedious early part of the game thanks to the percentage damage. There is no denying it is a super strong tool, but also on Skullgirls Mobile's part I've never seen them doing an special event for newer players to catch up. This nerf would only hurt newer players imo.

 

[SvenZ]

Of course. Back then when Ringlet Spike was useless I don't recall myself ever using Filia for anything and was already level 70.

I just think of the ringlet spike as a tool for newer players to somewhat skip the tedious early part of the game thanks to the percentage damage. There is no denying it is a super strong tool, but also on Skullgirls Mobile's part I've never seen them doing an special event for newer players to catch up. This nerf would only hurt newer players imo.

I disagree. Early game and late game Skullgirls is the same thing, but you only have more options and damage and HP values are higher. I'd argue that late game is worse, because you only have more things to grind. Having a universal way of cheesing gameplay devalues variant diversity only further. Gameplay wise, Filia is very stale because of Ringlet spam.

Just to reiterate from my previous post, only nerfs shouldn't be the way to go, however in terms of nerfs which will go alongside some buffs, I'm pretty ok with most of what's proposed

 

[Kheul]

I disagree. Early game and late game Skullgirls is the same thing, but you only have more options and damage and HP values are higher. I'd argue that late game is worse, because you only have more things to grind. Having a universal way of cheesing gameplay devalues variant diversity only further. Gameplay wise, Filia is very stale because of Ringlet spam.

Many games have beginner friendly characters, let it be turn based gachas, PC fighting games, mobas etc. There is always at least one unit that makes your life easier by helping you go through the early game, the baby steps, by being simple to use or by being really effective to use.

I understand the cheesing part, but that is just how it is most of the time. You cheese the early game with easy bleeds, and late game with destruction pillars. It is the same thing and it doesn't need to change, if you want to have fun you can always use someone else or the same character with different moves. Everyone has a different aim when playing a game, they might want to progress faster so they choose what to do who to use carefully, some might just enjoy doing cool combos etc. Concept of fun is really diverse. No one is forced to play a certain style. So saying Filia is stale because Ringlet spam doesn't really mean much. I like it more when I can decide when to have fun and when to quickly grind.

You say variant diversity, let's say we nerf her bleeds (according to Aoskull's post) then you won't be even able to utilize her bleeds even remotely reliable in the earlier stages of the game due to how low the chance and duration would be without it being level +15. There isn't even any buffs for her other moves so we can say that it is at least compensated that way but no. Her other moves don't bring anything to the table at all. Not everything gotta be about variants, can't a character have a good move, must it always be half-baked in a way so the signature abilities have to complement to it? A very important aspect of her is gone she is just a aight buff remover and life-stealer and Lethal Weapon is the new Filia of bleed now. If anything Filia's variants shouldn't be focusing on the things she already can do well like inflicting bleed.

Also don't forget this game itself isn't so beginner friendly with how many characters it has, each having different playstyles, combos. So sticking to just a few characters in the early game is a sensible option as long as you have the skill points.

I disagree on the take with early and late game being the same. Those two are two different games. Early game is tedious with how limited your resources and how hard it is to progress. No resource, no energy, no units, no moves...

While in late game everything is so much easier and you can do most of the stuff that would take you hours in the early game in minutes, so I don't understand what do you mean by you have more things to grind, really. Everything has been split to different difficulties, but even the hardest one will be incredibly easy in the late game. You'll also have many units with so many gameplay style possibilites so fun never stops.

Filia's concept is mostly about bleed anyways, this makes her a prime candidate for an easier early game experience due to no stat requirements for damage. Bleed has never been the all-solution anyways, players will understand that the further they are in the game.

 

[SvenZ]

Many games have beginner friendly characters, let it be turn based gachas, PC fighting games, mobas etc. There is always at least one unit that makes your life easier by helping you go through the early game, the baby steps, by being simple to use or by being really effective to use.

I know, I've worked on mobas. SGM has enough early game characters that are easy for players. I'd argue that Ringlet chaining is hard for new players, and is not a good be all and all solution. I'd further argue that there are characters far easier than Filia

To the rest of the comment, the response in my previous comment covers it "only nerfs shouldn't be the way to go, however in terms of nerfs which will go alongside some buffs, I'm pretty ok with most of what's proposed"

 

[Aoskull]

- Hey,hey,hey, things are heating up while I wasn’t looking, you two. I'm glad you're addressing the topic of my suggestion of Ringlet, but please argue each other in your DMs. Nobody wants to see a fight.

- Also, please remember that this is just my personal suggestion. There is absolutely no intention to force my opinions on anyone. I am posting this with the understanding that people have different opinions on balance adjustments, and all decisions are left to the devs! (don't know if AG will take the balancing seriously though)

 

[SvenZ]

- Hey,hey,hey, things are heating up while I wasn’t looking, you two. I'm glad you're addressing the topic of my suggestion of Ringlet, but please argue each other in your DMs. Nobody wants to see a fight.

- Also, please remember that this is just my personal suggestion. There is absolutely no intention to force my opinions on anyone. I am posting this with the understanding that people have different opinions on balance adjustments, and all decisions are left to the devs! (don't know if AG will take the balancing seriously though)

We're not fighting, we're having a constructive discussion. It's not a matter of forcing an idea, but evaluating the pros, cons and different viewpoints from players

 

[Annie enjoyer]

I made some miner changes for nerf suggestion that posted quite a while ago.

Ringlet Spike
Old: Inflict BLEED for 4/8/12 second on hit

New: 25/35/50% to inflict BLEED for 5/7/10 seconds on hit

- Since Ringlet can unconditionally inflict 12-second bleed, makes it very powerful offensively and make other moves less valuable. Because of this, there is no Filia with an offense rating below A on the tier list (even the defensive Dread and Curl Scout have A)
I've nerfed its chance and duration of bleed to bring it in line with other moves.

Chaos Vanish
Old: Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Effective against blocking)

New:Remove buff and inflict HEAL BLOCK for 4/8/12 seconds (Not effective against blocking)

Upper Khat
Old: 25/25/50% to inflict STUN for 4/6/6 seconds on hit

New: 15/25/35% to inflict STUN for 6 seconds on hit

Weight of Anubis
Increase basic CT to 30 seconds

- I believe that Eliza is the strongest fighter of SGM due to some OP moves. To mitigate this, I suggest to nerf Chaos Vanish, which is really broken among all moves, Upper Khat, which can very easily inflict a 6 sec stun, and Anubis, which can force opponents to get closer and engage in close-range combat.

Bellows Blast
Old: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Effective against blocking)

New: 50/75/100% to transfer 1 debuff from self to an opponent (Not effective against blocking)

- Bellows Blast is a move that is work as a countermeasure for most of debuff controller. It is almost essential for Marie, and there is a big difference in performance with or without it.
The chance is acceptable since it has lower hits than Rotation Hazard, but the fact that it can be activated on block makes it OP I think. By removing that, it will give her more room to choose other moves in her build.

Chaos
Old: Critical hit when elemental advantage will inflict RANDOM DEBUFF for 15 sec

New: 50% chance on Critical hit and 15% chance on normal hit when elemental advantage will inflict RANDOM DEBUFF for 15 sec

- A big change from previous one. Chaos is incredibly effective in crit builds, applying a staggering number of 15 sec debuffs regardless of variant.
Although it depends on luck, you can inflict multiple powerful debuffs such as hex, curse, and BB disable, so in some cases you can neutralize your opponent and continue attacking unilaterally.
Nerfing the chance will make it less likely to dominate the game than before. However, to prevent from turning marquee choices into Volatility only, made a buff for builds that don't rely on crit.

wow, i hate every suggest here.