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Fights Versus Ragequit

MrNoggin

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So I played my first match of versus today. Connection seemed good. I wiped the floor with my opponent, but right before I finished the fight and won they disconnected and the fight was a wash.

Which means I didn’t get the score for the daily reward. I get that DCs happen, but the connection seemed pretty good to me.

I know not everyone is going to be a spoilsport and ragequit the moment they start losing, but if I’m gonna have to slog through so many fights just to get the daily, or even not at all if every person quits, what’s the point?
 

cappatacus

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I'm sure a rage quit is annoying, but it's a bit much to assume this will continue to happen, as it seems it's only happened to you once. I'm not sure that the devs would even have a way of combating that either.
 

Ryouhi

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Just had that happen twice in a row as well.

These should just count as a win for the remaining player, otherwise you can straight up troll others by leaving just before they win.

At the very least check both team's remaining HP as the game would do in case of a draw and if the remaining player has more HP than the disconnected opponent let it count a win.

Maybe disconnects won't happen all that often, but it's not the player's fault the opponent leaves/disconnects and as such shouldn't be punished for it imo
 

Dusty00

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I still stand by that the design of permanent 3 win daily quest is not a wise design choice. With rage quit and disconnects counting as a loss, I’m even less inclined to play Versus and may just create a second account to do the daily quest on two devices rather than dealing with rage quits and connection issues.
 

Liam

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Disconnects are pretty tricky to deal with in online games using peer to peer connections.

With a direct connection, there's no server to authenticate who pulled the plug on the match. That said, there are some very clever ways to implement this, but it's going to take a lot of work to get it working, and we weren't able to get to it for launch.

Examples of difficulties:

These should just count as a win for the remaining player
Disconnect internet > Match ends > Reconnect internet > You are the remaining player.

At the very least check both team's remaining HP as the game would do in case of a draw and if the remaining player has more HP than the disconnected opponent let it count a win.
Start the match > Do Napalm Shot > Pull the plug on the internet > Match ends > You won the draw 300% health to 299%.
 

Ryouhi

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Disconnects are pretty tricky to deal with in online games using peer to peer connections.

With a direct connection, there's no server to authenticate who pulled the plug on the match. That said, there are some very clever ways to implement this, but it's going to take a lot of work to get it working, and we weren't able to get to it for launch.

Examples of difficulties:


Disconnect internet > Match ends > Reconnect internet > You are the remaining player.


Start the match > Do Napalm Shot > Pull the plug on the internet > Match ends > You won the draw 300% health to 299%.
Understandable, but glad it's on your radar :)

Though i'm personally still more of the opinion that you shouldn't punish players for things out of their control and have it work like described above, until a more elegant solution is found.

*If* things tend to go the way you described, which would ruin the fun for others, then going with the current system would be fair

But this is coming from just a player perspective. Maybe it's naive to think people wouldn't abuse such a system
 

Eriearies

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I played around 5-6 versus matches just to complete the daily and 2 people disconnected when I started winning.
I read what Liam posted about how it's not possible to implement a system where if someone disconnect, the other person wins, so as a suggestion: Wouldn't it be better to just tweak the daily quest to be

Win 3 versus fights

-OR-

Play 5/10 versus fights?
 

Liam

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Win 3 versus fights
That's what it is right now.

Play 5/10 versus fights?
This will lead to a lot of players queuing for 10 matches and then walking away from their device, not caring about the outcome of the match, every day. The current implementation requires active participation (no AFKing) if you want a reward, there are no plans to change that, and it was done deliberately.

All that said, I totally understand there are more improvements that can be made as it relates to quitters. I've ran into a few myself. Feedback heard loud and clear!
 

MrNoggin

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First: Liam, you’re a treasure, thank you. It’s nice to be heard even if there isn’t a real resolution. (Or those moment where I’m like (durr the game is broken, but it’s really me being an idiot)

Second, I really appreciate the discussion on this even if it’s not a thing that can realistically be resolved. I’m just super salty about online players being butts; it’s a leading cause of me losing interest. I used to play MtG arena, and there were days that even after grinding for an hour in versus mode I still couldn’t complete my versus dailies because (aside from the bugs plaguing that game) my opponent would just DC during a match the moment I started getting the upper hand. It severely detracts from my fun.

And here in Skullgirls I’ve got DCing opponents in a game I’ve been seriously enjoying since shortly before release. It’s childish and I hate it but ‍♂️ 15 theonite is pocket change, and while I could really use it, it’s not the end of the world if I don’t have it.
 

Mornedil

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Disconnects are pretty tricky to deal with in online games using peer to peer connections.

With a direct connection, there's no server to authenticate who pulled the plug on the match. That said, there are some very clever ways to implement this, but it's going to take a lot of work to get it working, and we weren't able to get to it for launch.

Examples of difficulties:


Disconnect internet > Match ends > Reconnect internet > You are the remaining player.


Start the match > Do Napalm Shot > Pull the plug on the internet > Match ends > You won the draw 300% health to 299%.

I'm gonna regret suggesting this, but is there a way to perform client sided checks for the person who rage quit?
For example, checking if the player...
  • Pressed the quit button
  • If the app was minimized or closed
  • If they turned off wifi / data
  • If their connection to the main game server was lost
And if such was the case, give them a small penalty such as a 10 minute ban (and longer for repeat offenders).

I'm aware client-sided checks like this in an online environment can be a pretty bad idea in some circumstances, and it might not be possible to communicate to the other player that there was disconnection in this manner, if the app was closed or internet was disabled.
But at least it might discourage some people from doing it, if it's possible to check client-sided tampering, to issue a short ban from matchmaking.



Edit:
Another idea is to change the quit button to a "give up" button, which sends a packet to the other player that they're the winner.
It wouldn't stop people from rage closing the app, but would help against people who quit through the menu
 

Liam

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I'm not saying that there aren't solutions, I just said that they are tricky and we didn't have it in for launch. This kind of thing has been implemented in other more standard fighting games before. (Check out MK11 if you haven't - they even turn quitting into a spectacle and your opponent explodes into blood.)

Appreciate the suggestions! If we dig into this for a future update I'm positive the engineers will be able to handle it.
 
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So i tried doing my daily pvp fights today and...
9 fights:
-1 loss
-3 disconnects
-2 quits (one i didn't wanna fight someone who didn't have any moves equipped, and the other one was against someone who dc'd on me before)
-3 wins

And i have to say... i's been a pain going through that.
I've been thinking that maybe a report system could work but maybe not really..

I'm not sure what could be done, but i'm glad the devs are paying close attention to this issue, thanks.
 

Splicer

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Easy solution, make ragequit and disconnects count as loss. Most fight games does that.
 
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Easy solution, make ragequit and disconnects count as loss. Most fight games does that.

The problem with that would be if someone actually had to disconnect because of their internet or if the servers crash or something or whatever that's out of the control of the player, but then again, for now pvp wins don't mean too much since there isn't any ranking system, and the rewards are just the 15 theo for the daily mission, so probably people wouldn't complain
 
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So i tried to play a fight today and got bodied real hard, to the point i didn't want to continue, but i knew if i "quit" the fight, that wouldn't count as a win for the other guy, so i kept playing, but not seriously anymore, i just wanted it to end, but just leaving would've made me into a ragequitter.

I mentione this because somewhere in this thread i read something about an idea: replacing the "quit" button with a "give up" one, so that when one presses it, the other guy is considered as winner and the one who gave up, a loser, instead of both of them being losers (because both of them lost their time due to how pvp matches currently work).

So after my experience with losing real hard, i've decided to support the idea of a "give up" button.
 

Lililira

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Been thinking about this some ever since PvP was released, and I think part of the problem is that since the only daily is 'win 3 fights' there's no incentive to stay and finish a match that you've got no way of winning, other than to be polite to the other player (which DCers don't care about). As a result, the DCers just leave the second they realize they're losing.

I think we'd see less ragequits if there was some way to encourage players to finish fights that they're losing. Like, either change the 'win 3' into 'finish 3 matches', or break it into 2 dailies: a 5 theo one for winning matches and a 10 theo one for completing matches. That would give DCers a reason to stay and finish the fight even if they lose.
 

lothorie

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Been thinking about this some ever since PvP was released, and I think part of the problem is that since the only daily is 'win 3 fights' there's no incentive to stay and finish a match that you've got no way of winning, other than to be polite to the other player (which DCers don't care about). As a result, the DCers just leave the second they realize they're losing.

I think we'd see less ragequits if there was some way to encourage players to finish fights that they're losing. Like, either change the 'win 3' into 'finish 3 matches', or break it into 2 dailies: a 5 theo one for winning matches and a 10 theo one for completing matches. That would give DCers a reason to stay and finish the fight even if they lose.
Everyday I spend more than hour to make 3 wins, just because of ragequits. So it will be nice to make a penalty for them, more fights they are quit - more time they should be banned for VS mode.
Or another one, daily quest “king of fighters”, is not a good idea, would be better to make reasonable quest into VS tab instead. I mean 4 theonite+600 gold for win, and 1 theonite+200 gold for lose, with maximum of 20 theo and 5000 gold per day.
Also it could be nice to make blacklist system, and auto lose if they quit (usable for a random fights only)
 
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Dusty00

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I think a 5 minutes cool down time for any disconnection to the game is reasonable. Game crashed? Five minute wait time isn’t too bad. Might as well restart your phone.
Rage quit? Take five and cool your head. Spare others from queueing up to the same rage quitter over and over.
if there’s a 5 minute penalty then people will less likely quit and just let the opponent finish the match ASAP.
 

Irghen

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I would personally suggest a "fights completed" score that would affect your matchmaking priority. That way rage quitters end up in their playpen.
 

HugeRedGorilla

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This is likely to be a small denunciation of people. In general, the situation is this, for the last 10 matches in pvp mode, if the opponent has no chance of winning, there is always a disconnection, as I understand it, they simply disconnect from the battle and as a result, it does not count to anyone. Can I suggest the idea of any punishment for this? For example, as in the games of the MK series - Quitality?
 
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