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Characters Vial Hazard ideas

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by BambooEarpick, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. BambooEarpick

    BambooEarpick Member

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    Vial Hazard is pretty weak in the scheme of Special Moves. It does 0 damage and the effects are not amazing. Compared to something like Cymbal Clash which has a base rate of 87.5% stun and good damage, Vial C seems pretty weak – especially when the consideration of prep time is a thing. Now, I don’t believe that all SMs should be equal in power because that’s boring. However, I do think that there should be a certain power level expectation to be met by moves; especially ones that require extra work.
    As such, I have tried to make what I think is a pretty fair Special Move change for Vial Hazard, taking into consideration the prep time and the type of character Valentine is. I still think it’s important to connect with attacks for effects so it doesn’t feel “cheap” but also add a damage type component for rewarding the hit.

    Vial Hazard: Type A Cost: 2 Move Points
    On HIT, inflict BLEED for 5 seconds
    On HIT, reduce the meter of opponent BLOCKBUSTERS by 35%

    1: CD 20s
    3: CD reduced to 18s
    6: CD reduced to 16s, On HIT, reduce the meter of opponent BLOCKBUSTERS by 55%
    9: CD reduced to 14s
    12: CD reduced to 12s
    15: CD reduced to 10s, On HIT, reduce the meter of opponent BLOCKBUSTERS by 75%

    Valentine, in the SGM universe, is not a high damage dealer. Instead, I picture her being more of a strategist controlling the fight to go her way. One of these ways is through meter denial.
    Destroying meter every 10s looks very strong on paper. However, prep times consumes 1-2 seconds and you must actually get a genuine hit with the move for it to take effect. This effectively means that the REAL CD does not start until you’ve thrown the vial and the CD is much longer in combat than the 10s displayed on the tool tip.

    Vial Hazard: Type B Cost: 2 Move Points
    On HIT, inflict BLEED for 5 seconds
    On HIT, inflict ARMOR BREAK, CRIPPLE, and SLOW for 7 seconds

    1: CD 20s
    3: CD reduced to 18s
    6: CD reduced to 16s, On HIT, inflict ARMOR BREAK, CRIPPLE, and SLOW for 10 seconds
    9: CD reduced to 14s
    12: CD reduced to 12s
    15: CD reduced to 10s, On HIT, inflict ARMOR BREAK, CRIPPLE, and SLOW for 15 seconds

    This vial was created with the idea of weakness. By landing this vial your opponent is in a weakened state that allows you to seize Valentine’s opportunistic nature and deal more damage while being less afraid of taking damage herself.
    Once again, having such a short CD on this move makes it look very strong. There are a few points to be noted, though. First, these statuses should not stack so you can’t continually pepper your enemy with vials. Second, if your enemy has a way to gain IMMUNE it nullifies these effects. Lastly, the enemy can switch out with a partner to immediately cancel the effects. And, like all the other vials, there is prep time and you have to actually land the hit.

    Vial Hazard: Type C Cost: 2 Move Points
    On HIT, inflict BLEED for 5 seconds
    On HIT, inflict BLEED for 5 seconds

    1: CD 20s
    3: CD reduced to 18s
    6: CD reduced to 16s, On HIT, inflict BLEED for 10 seconds
    9: CD reduced to 14s
    12: CD reduced to 12s
    15: CD reduced to 10s, On HIT, inflict BLEED for 15 seconds

    This vial is for damage, pure and simple. So, like all vials it applies a BLEED effect for 5 seconds. It also applies a second BLEED effect for 5 seconds. As you level up the move the second bleed lasts longer.
    Yes, this effect is pretty strong. At the end you’re looking at 20% damage. On an opponent with 40k HP you’d be dealing 8k HP damage over time. Less than a Harlequin MGR, to be sure, but they can also tag out to not receive the whole amount of damage. And it deals less damage the less max HP characters have. So it’s more or less of an equalizer effect since everyone bleeds at the same rate 1%hp /sec.
    I’m a fan of this one because it specifically complements EKG Flatliner so well. A long bleed state to really take advantage of a specific BB. Thus leading to people trying to make actual builds instead of just slapping on whatever.

    I am also a strong proponent for a damage vial as currently the only damage SM Valentine has is Dead Cross.

    Thoughts, anyone?
     
    Black Egret#13 likes this.
  2. Fel

    Fel wuf
    Moderator

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    Does the second part of the vial act like GDO and let you extend your combo? The fact that they do no damage is pretty daunting. Even with the changes above, the vials would probably still be sub-par. Honestly because they do no damage on prep AND on hit, i think the effects going through block is perfectly reasonable, especially if theres no stun vial. Itll be hard to make it a good move without some amazing payoff to hitting it, and honestly the effects youve mentioned (other than the bb drain) dont sound too appealing.
     
    BambooEarpick likes this.
  3. BambooEarpick

    BambooEarpick Member

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    I've deliberately kept the vial ideas from being too strong because it's important to make incremental changes and see where that leads you. Bleed for 5 seconds is 5% HP damage (last vial being 20% HP damage) and while that isn't a lot it's not nothing, either. I honestly think that the BB reduction vial, of the ones I've proposed, is actually the least interesting and the weakest.

    I play a LOT of Valentine in SGM; probably more so than anyone else -- mostly due to her being on the weaker side of characters. I'd rather her slowly get changed to become more viable than to have a ham-fisted overhaul that makes her too strong. I'm ok with her not being tier 1.

    As for your question: Does vial allow you to extend combo? Yes. Depending on your engage range and opponent you can use it after the 3rd or 4th hit. This allows a slight gain to damage since most of her heavy hits come at the end of her combos. The Stun Vial allows you to do a lot of damage when it procs. However, I'm generally not a fan of stuns because they are either over-powered (allowing you full control of the battle) or under-powered (doesn't proc enough to be relevant).
     
    Fel likes this.
  4. Fel

    Fel wuf
    Moderator

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    Im still at the phase where I get one shot by random BB3s and I was thinking with story more in mind than PF, my bad about that.
    Honestly if it wasnt for the prep time being in the actual game Id ask to remove the prep time completely haha.
     
  5. BambooEarpick

    BambooEarpick Member

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    Valentine's vials being the only move in the game requiring prep time DOES feel bad, I'll fully admit that. However, there are a few safe times to prep it (post-air combo and choosing not to follow up with a sweep, after defeating a fighter) without giving up TOO much. Once your team's fight score is about the same as the team you're fighting you'll find Valentine doesn't feel TOO far behind; and her Last Hope variant isn't terrible.

    Of her silver and bronze variants, though, I think only Icy Hot is interesting and only because of her heal on tag-in is kinda cute (but not amazing).
     
  6. Vex

    Vex Member

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    Agree that these moves need some love. As an alternative to the above I think simply making them unblockable might be interesting to at least compensate for the prep. I think that would still leave them pretty weak though, and Valentine has one of the best unblockable charge moves already, so... I dunno. Maybe bleeds on everything is better.
     
  7. Liam

    Liam !Robot
    Hidden Variable Dev

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    Thanks for the suggestions!
    We have some changes to Vial Hazard in our next major update to help reward the player for finding time to prepare the move.

    Looking forward to hearing your feedback after you get a chance to take it for a spin : )
     
  8. FreyRenoir

    FreyRenoir Member

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    I got the vial throw to work on enemies after the air combo. I think it worked on big band
     

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