Fights BB3s remain the most frustrating mechanic in this game

[Inked]

I hate to revive this thread again, but i've gotten a little frustrated over this again, so anyways.

BB3s have become more managable nowadays thanks to more abundant meter control abilities, especially wither being a godsend.

However, when you don't have one available it can still be hard to deal with.
One tip the game shows in the loading screens is to change out to another fighter when the enemies BB3 is charged and "to let them take one for the team" i think it says.

My issue with this is, that this never really works for me at all.
Sometimes i even bring my Dead of Winter that would actually get an advantage for being killed by a BB3, but whenever i switch to a fighter i want to "sacrifice", the AI never ever uses their fully charged BB3, even when i block multiple full combos of theirs.

But the second i even dare to block an attack with my carry again, it's instant BB3 time.

---

I'd personally like if BB3s were a little more predictable. Maybe make the enemy BB3 flash red shortly before they want to use it or something so i actually *can* switch out to another fighter to tank the hits.

second this. when playing pfs i used to always swap in one of my two silvers as soon as the opponent got their BB3. on very very rare occasions this actually works out, but 95% of the time i’m just wasting precious time while waiting for the opponent to waste their BB3 - only to have both sacrifice characters killed and my carry slapped with an unblockable. honestly this has been the case so much that i started being suspicious that the AI KNEW that those were our sacrificial characters and using their BB3 is what we want them to do. i agree - i’d really love more consistency/being able to predict opponent BB3 usage, because AI “use BB3 after combo is blocked” is so random and frustrating

 

[TonyPartridge30]

Sometimes i even bring my Dead of Winter that would actually get an advantage for being killed by a BB3, but whenever i switch to a fighter i want to "sacrifice", the AI never ever uses their fully charged BB3, even when i block multiple full combos of theirs.

But the second i even dare to block an attack with my carry again, it's instant BB3 time.

I've encountered this too. It's like the AI knows that I want them to waste the BB3 on a lesser fighter so that I can safely swap back in my carry. And they dash that plan. It especially sucks when you only have 1 carry and the other 2 fighters are like silvers you're trying to level; high streak enemies can easily chip away at such throwaway fighters through block.

Honestly, though, I haven't felt that bugged by BB3s since the last change to their usage. Maybe that's because Rifts have taken the spotlight as most annoying aspect of the game lately.

 

[Ryouhi]

second this. when playing pfs i used to always swap in one of my two silvers as soon as the opponent got their BB3. on very very rare occasions this actually works out, but 95% of the time i’m just wasting precious time while waiting for the opponent to waste their BB3 - only to have both sacrifice characters killed and my carry slapped with an unblockable. honestly this has been the case so much that i started being suspicious that the AI KNEW that those were our sacrificial characters and using their BB3 is what we want them to do. i agree - i’d really love more consistency/being able to predict opponent BB3 usage, because AI “use BB3 after combo is blocked” is so random and frustrating

I've encountered this too. It's like the AI knows that I want them to waste the BB3 on a lesser fighter so that I can safely swap back in my carry. And they dash that plan. It especially sucks when you only have 1 carry and the other 2 fighters are like silvers you're trying to level; high streak enemies can easily chip away at such throwaway fighters through block.

Honestly, though, I haven't felt that bugged by BB3s since the last change to their usage. Maybe that's because Rifts have taken the spotlight as most annoying aspect of the game lately.

Of course this is most notable when trying to throw fodder fighters at the AI in hopes of baiting a BB3, but like i mentioned, even my Level ~50 Diamond Dead of Winter couldn't get the AI to use the BB3, even while blocking it's attacks for maybe 20 seconds? At one point i even just stopped blocking and let it attack me freely in hopes it will use it, but still nothing.
So DoW finally dies without the AI using the BB3, but lo and behold, the first attack i block after my Flytrap tags in? Boom! BB3 TIME!

No matter what you do, it's like the AI knows exactly how to annoy you the most with it's BB3 usage.

I'm happy we have some good options for meter control now, but this just really hurts when you don't have any available (see Flytrap outside of Buer Overdrive) and even bringing a tanky fighter to eat it seemingly doesn't work or at least i have almost never been able to bait the AI into using it's BB3 when i want it to.

I understand BB3s are mostly there to actually serve as danger to the player, but a little more predictability or a way for the player to affect it would be very welcome

 

[cappatacus]

I haven't personally had issues with BB3s feeling unfair. The game provides several meter control options, including but not limited to: HQ's MA, some BB3s, Middle of the Sphinx, those two Val moves, RB's disbale, Double's Chaos MA providing disable/wither, No Egrets, Hype Man, Claw and Order, Diva Intervention. I imagine Bloodbath or Painwheel on Grudge would have an easier time with these too. Or, Valentine with TC or Squigly with Evil Dead (which isn't the best bc she has to die, but it's something).

I look at BB3s as just another aspect of fights to be mindful of and to adjust accordingly to. They've been annoying on occasion, but they haven't wrecked my team so much that I feel like nerfing them will be good. It's honestly fun when the defense has a loaded BB3 - like, at that point I know things can go one of two ways for my Primed, and it's a matter of how well I can time intercepts, bombs, ranged moves, or a teammate tagging in with direct meter control (like a safe Squigly to grab the opponent with Silver Chord and load them with wither). It makes winning high streak fights so much more rewarding. A smaller nerf like the BB3 warning wouldn't be bad, but some part of me likes the vague predictability.

 

[fanghoul]

I'm kinda in the same boat as Cappatacus here. I don't have too many encounters with BB3's, and I guess I mostly view those I do get to the face as being fair because I messed up somehow.

I also view high streak Prize Fights as having a risk/reward trade-off when it comes to leveling people up. Sure, there's a range of 16-30 where it's relatively easy to level silver characters, etc, but as the fights get harder there's naturally a larger risk to having even one character that can't pick up the fight if something goes wrong. At that point you're also getting more XP, so you have to decide if you're willing to take that risk for some extra reward there.

 

[Liam]

I feel that BB3s are in a really good spot. As the roster and modifier list grows, there are more and more tools you can use to counter them. You can also "safely" attack into someone's block now without being insta BBd, which helps lay on the pressure when they have it charged.

My issue with this is, that this never really works for me at all.
Sometimes i even bring my Dead of Winter that would actually get an advantage for being killed by a BB3, but whenever i switch to a fighter i want to "sacrifice", the AI never ever uses their fully charged BB3, even when i block multiple full combos of theirs.

But the second i even dare to block an attack with my carry again, it's instant BB3 time.

I've encountered this too. It's like the AI knows that I want them to waste the BB3 on a lesser fighter so that I can safely swap back in my carry. And they dash that plan. It especially sucks when you only have 1 carry and the other 2 fighters are like silvers you're trying to level; high streak enemies can easily chip away at such throwaway fighters through block.

I will take some time to review AI code but I don't believe this is the case.

 

[TonyPartridge30]

I will take some time to review AI code but I don't believe this is the case.

It could be I was just really unlucky in those scenarios. What's the chance an AI fighter will use a BB3 after you block a hit? 50%?

 

[Ryouhi]

I feel that BB3s are in a really good spot. As the roster and modifier list grows, there are more and more tools you can use to counter them. You can also "safely" attack into someone's block now without being insta BBd, which helps lay on the pressure when they have it charged.

I will take some time to review AI code but I don't believe this is the case.

It was mostly the salt talking in that post, but at least in my experience i'm really having a hard time trying to bait BB3s when switching in teammates. Maybe i'm just unlucky, but it feels a little disheartening wasting a lot of the timer on trying to bait the BB3 only for it to not work, but the moment you switch back to your carry you get hit with it anyways.

But yes, many fighters have some form of meter control now which makes this less of a problem.

 

[Liam]

It could be I was just really unlucky in those scenarios. What's the chance an AI fighter will use a BB3 after you block a hit? 50%?

Pretty high, but it varies based on AI difficulty and other factors such as how pissed off or patient you're making the AI - they have some (simulated) feelings.

Can't give you a % since it changes depending on how the fight is going.

I finished reviewing the code and I don't see anything to support these claims. It's also likely that we all remember the times things don't go as planned, and we write off the times when the AI does what we want.

After all, you don't remember streak 23 if it's a win, but you'll remember streak 24 if it's a loss, etc.

Hope that doesn't come across as snarky, just trying to be transparent with the system!

 

[TonyPartridge30]

Pretty high, but it varies based on AI difficulty and other factors such as how pissed off or patient you're making the AI - they have some (simulated) feelings.

Can't give you a % since it changes depending on how the fight is going.

I finished reviewing the code and I don't see anything to support these claims. It's also likely that we all remember the times things don't go as planned, and we write off the times when the AI does what we want.

After all, you don't remember streak 23 if it's a win, but you'll remember streak 24 if it's a loss, etc.

Hope that doesn't come across as snarky, just trying to be transparent with the system!

That sounds like, if you damage an AI with a certain fighter, the AI gets aggro on that fighter which increases the chance it will use a BB3 if you block their hits. But by tagging in a new fighter, you bring in a new character with no aggro on them, and since you are just blocking to try and bait usage of the BB3, the AI isn't as likely to get mad enough to use it. But it remembers the aggro against the previous fighter so that when that old fighter tags back in, the AI is still mad at it and the chance it will pop off that BB3 is high again.

 

[cappatacus]

Pretty high, but it varies based on AI difficulty and other factors such as how pissed off or patient you're making the AI - they have some (simulated) feelings.

Woah

So is that dependent on how much you attack the AI, or more how much you intercept the opponent (or other nuances like spamming throws/charge attacks)?

 

[Blank]

Part of the update notes said that enemy AI will never buffer up a BB3 on get-up or when being hit. Does "get-up" refer to when the player is getting up or the AI? If it's not referring to when the player is getting up, it should be changed to include that. When enemy AI buffer BB3s at times when the player is literally unable to do anything about it (on get-up or on automated tag-in after a KO), it's feels really unfair. We already have to deal with increased frequency. If that means that players lose the ability to buffer on get-up or tag-in, so be it.

I hope BB3s get overhauled sooner rather than later. I feel like if they had just increased AI difficulty without changed BB3 behavior, things would be much more manageable, because you'd still have the AI trying to bait you into attacking and then be able to punish you for it.

 

[500TheoniteSeriously]

Woah

So is that dependent on how much you attack the AI, or more how much you intercept the opponent (or other nuances like spamming throws/charge attacks)?

Well, i've at least noticed (many times when i was less experienced) that spamming throw leads, vey likely, to the AI using a BB right as you stop blocking, so it feels unfair that they can do that, but it's also kind of unfair that you can just block and throw all you want, isn't it?
(What i did to deal with this was... stop throwing )