[Guide] How to get the best value for your theonite

[Erick Draves]

I buyed once the squigly once per player pack 11 squigly relics. (yeeeees... hidden variable tried to sell it to me latter, agaaaain, "once per player you won´t get this opportunity twice buy it again but just for this time promise LOL". But I can´t hate you guys, HV for lifeeee!). No luck at all...

Soooo, latter I spend 2000 theos in a 10+1 squigly pack (Like level 58-60 I think). Got Bio and Dead of whinter!!!, and that´s the last time I buyed 10+1 packs buyed one for my little one with the theos os roockie pack and... baaam... Surgeon general.

Made the numbers and yeeeees, we were soooo, sooooooooooo lucky, becasue every day at forums and in fb group everyone is mad at their 10+1 openings... So now I just buy 50,000 canopy coins relics in cabinet, because they are waaaaay more cheaper!!...

 

[MrNoggin]

So should prolly be noted that this also seems to make the 10k theo pack with 10+1 relic packs for all characters obsolete as well.

Unless my badness at math is showing, for 10k theonite you can get 230 premiere relics by doing gold conversions.

The 10k pack would only have 154 (165 with the character coming this fall)

 

[evilgordo]

So should prolly be noted that this also seems to make the 10k theo pack with 10+1 relic packs for all characters obsolete as well.

Unless my badness at math is showing, for 10k theonite you can get 230 premiere relics by doing gold conversions.

The 10k pack would only have 154 (165 with the character coming this fall)

Technically this is true, but for me, the 10k Theo character bundle is the only “guaranteed” way to get a new fighter when first released. I bought it when Fukua dropped and have no regrets. Will do it again with brand new chara. But if you’re not in a hurry, just keep buying the CoC premier relics for maximum value until the next patch

 

[Mornedil]

you both make good points! While coin purchases is the clear winner in amount of relics for our theonite, some people might have other motivations for spending their theo on something else. So I wouldn't call other purchases obsolete! It's nice that they have different methods to gain relics for those with specific needs or wants, we just gotta make sure we give new players the right information

Me, for example.. I'm spending my theonite on 10+1 Ms. Fortune and Robo-Fortune relics, because I desperately want more of them, and then I also buy their relics from the cabinet on top of that. For me, that maximizes the amount of their relics i can get, even if it ends up being more expensive.

 

[MAjOmneQ]

Extremely enlightening information !
I had an inkling that Relics would be preferable for specific characters considering that the Cabinet is quite generous.

 

[Racoji]

Thanks for posting the math on this!
It's worth noting that v4.2's Hyper Ultimate Variety Pack sits in between the two options you analyzed in terms of efficiency.

Per 10,000 Theonite:

Premiere 10+1 Vouchers: 110 Relics (as ten 10+1 vouchers), with an average yield of ...

• 82 Bronze fighters
• 23.2 Silver fighters
• 8.2 4.2 Gold fighters
• 0.6 Diamond fighters
• 4400 relic shards

Hyper Ultimate Variety Pack: 154 Relics (as fourteen 10+1 vouchers), with an average yield of ...

• 114.8 Bronze fighters
• 32.48 Silver fighters
• 11.48 5.88 Gold fighters
• 0.84 Diamond fighters
• 6160 relic shards
• Guaranteed exactly 11 fighters for each character, with at least one Silver-or-better for each

Canopy Coins: 230 Premiere relics (6.25 purchases of 1,840,000 coins = 11,500,000 coins), with an average yield of ...

• 188.6 Bronze fighters
• 32.2 Silver fighters
• 8.05 Gold fighters
• 1.15 Diamond fighters
• 9200 relic shards

The Hyper Pack gives slightly more natural Gold Fighters for your Theonite on average, but coin purchases more than make up for it with the sheer volume of natural-Bronze fodder and relic shards they offer -- both in terms of potential skill points and eventual Gold-to-Diamond upgrade materials. 74 Bronzes and the three extra Silver Relics they give you can be melted down into four Golds, compared to the three-ish extra nat-Golds the Hyper Pack offers. Raising even half of those Bronzes to level 30 also gives more skill points than raising three Golds to 50, for much less total experience required.

EDIT: I originally read the 0.82 probability-per-relic for Bronzes as 0.82 probability-per-10+1 for Golds, leading to some incorrect numbers and conclusions. Don't maths while tired, kids. :^P

I saw on youtube that the same pack costs 5k theonite in holiday season (christmas maybe I'm not sure), are coins still more valuable than this pack in this case?

 

[evilgordo]

I saw on youtube that the same pack costs 5k theonite in holiday season (christmas maybe I'm not sure), are coins still more valuable than this pack in this case?

Yes, when/if the Hyper Ultimate Variety Pack is on sale for 5k Theo (ATM, only seen during the Holiday season PF) that is the better deal (for 5k Theo).
This variety pack gets slightly better with each new character added to it, as it adds 11 relics.

Here's the quick napkin math:

5K Theo = 165 character relics (with 15 being guaranteed silver characters)
5K Theo -> 5,580,000 Canopy Coin = 111 Premiere Relics from the Cabinet

Now if Umbrella makes to SMG by the Holidays...that Variety pack gets better with 176 relics!

For 10k Theo; conversion to coins is still the better yield for Premier Relics from the Cabinet with 220 (technically 226 if you convert the remainder of the 10k after 1.84M 6 times)

BTW, the roster of characters would need to be 21 to finally out value relics from the cabinet...some day, right?

 

[mikan]

oh

 

[Buster]

Hey, hello. Sorry to pop out of nowhere Mornedil, but does this guide still apply? It doesn't feel outdated but I wanted to confirm if you can. Thanks

 

[Erick Draves]

Hey, hello. Sorry to pop out of nowhere Mornedil, but does this guide still apply? It doesn't feel outdated but I wanted to confirm if you can. Thanks

Yes, indeed this still holds strong to our days! A 50,000 relic is (more or less) a half cheaper than a 100 theonite relic. It takes time, but in terms of brute values, it is right.

 

[Mornedil]

Hey, hello. Sorry to pop out of nowhere Mornedil, but does this guide still apply? It doesn't feel outdated but I wanted to confirm if you can. Thanks

Yep! Things haven't changed much.
Even if they do change in the future, we can always calculate the most theonite-efficient way to get relics

For buying relics with coins, the calculation is:
(Coins you get from purchase) / (cost in theonite) * 1000 / (coin cost for relic)

For example: 1840000 / 1600 * 1000 / 50000 = 23
(result: you get 23 relics per 1000 theonite)


I dont remember if it was mentioned in the thread, but when the Hyper Variety Pack is on sale for 5000 theonite, that's the most theonite-efficient way to get fighters.
You get 10+1 relics for every character, which currently gives you 170 regular relics and +17 bonus relics.
Grabbing it for 5k theo gives you 37.4 relics per 1000 theonite. (Don't buy it when it costs 10k)
(187÷5000×1000 = 37.4)

The only downside is that the offer comes around very rarely. (Always available on christmas)


As always, keep in mind that everyone will have different opinions on which method they prefer since there's different levels of effort involved. This thread was just meant to supply the cold, hard numbers on it ^^

 

[evilgordo]

I dont remember if it was mentioned in the thread, but when the Hyper Variety Pack is on sale for 5000 theonite, that's the most theonite-efficient way to get fighters.

Yes, when/if the Hyper Ultimate Variety Pack is on sale for 5k Theo (ATM, only seen during the Holiday season PF) that is the better deal (for 5k Theo).
This variety pack gets slightly better with each new character added to it, as it adds 11 relics.

Here's the quick napkin math:

5K Theo = 165 character relics (with 15 being guaranteed silver characters)
5K Theo -> 5,580,000 Canopy Coin = 111 Premiere Relics from the Cabinet

Now if Umbrella makes to SMG by the Holidays...that Variety pack gets better with 176 relics!

For 10k Theo; conversion to coins is still the better yield for Premier Relics from the Cabinet with 220 (technically 226 if you convert the remainder of the 10k after 1.84M 6 times)

BTW, the roster of characters would need to be 21 to finally out value relics from the cabinet...some day, right?

 

[巴巴爸爸不好玩]

Some common arguments I've seen against buying coins and my responses to them:

- But the 10+1 pack has a bonus relic with better odds!
- Yes, 1 relic with double odds. That's not better than 13 additional premiere relics with normal odds, which is what you could have bought with the same amount of theonite. You're missing out on so many fighters, relic shards, and simply opening a higher quantity of normal relics gives you a way higher chance of gaining gold/diamond fighters.

- I still prefer the 10+1 premiere relic pack.
- Yeah that's okay, you're allowed to buy what you enjoy the most. Just don't tell new players that's better or has better odds. Because it's not true.

- The 10+1 pack is better because coins are better spent on upgrading fighters, so buying coins for theonite and then spending coins on relics is a waste.
- Okay, but... You DO realize you're buying relics with extra coins that you wouldn't have had to begin with, right? You get 1.840,000 for spending 1600 theonite. You can afford both upgrading and buying new relics for those coins. Even if you buy 20 premiere relics for coins, you still have 840k additional coins for upgrades and you're still getting more fighters per 1000 theo than you would have gotten from the 10+1 pack.

- I have better luck with the 10+1 pack. I never get anything good when buying relics from the cabinet.
- This is just not true. The relics themselves have the same odds, except for the bonus relic, which we have already established does not make up for all the extra relics you're missing out on. It may feel like you have better luck with the 10+1 pack, because you open them all at once and get rewarded instantly while ignoring the many bronzes in there, compared to opening individual relics and getting disappointed over and over before you get a single good fighter. It's all just psychological, but the fact is that 4 out of 5 premiere relics will give you a bronze fighter no matter where you get them from.

- It's too rare to find premiere relics in the cabinet...
- It's true that it takes some patience to gather premiere relics from the cabinet, but it's really not too rare. I see at least a couple per day, sometimes more, which should give you relics faster than the time it takes to save up another 1600 theonite. You just have to remember to check back often.
However, I have to admit that if you're looking to buy a specific character's relic, those show up a bit too rarely in the cabinet. On my account where I only use Ms. Fortune and Robo-Fortune, i spend my theonite on 10+1 Fortune/Robo relic packs, because their relics show up so rarely in the cabinet that I always have extra money to afford them on top of spending my theo on relics, even without buying extra coins.

- But it's better for new accounts to buy the 10+1 pack to get fighters fast.
- Not really, no. They get a lot of relics from just completing story nodes, and from completing origin stories. At their level, getting the extra money on top of being able to buy more relics from the cabinet is a very good method to both gain new fighters and upgrade the ones they already have.
However, there is one offer in the store for new accounts that's pretty useful. It costs 1000 theonite, and you get a guaranteed gold fighter and a bunch of canopy coins. One purchase per account only.

A great answer！But in the early stages, I would choose 187（50%）

 

[evilgordo]

A great answer！But in the early stages, I would choose 187（50%）

Do you mean the Hyper Fighter Pack?

Yes, when/if the Hyper Ultimate Variety Pack is on sale for 5k Theo (ATM, only seen during the Holiday season PF) that is the better deal (for 5k Theo).
This variety pack gets slightly better with each new character added to it, as it adds 11 relics.

I dont remember if it was mentioned in the thread, but when the Hyper Variety Pack is on sale for 5000 theonite, that's the most theonite-efficient way to get fighters.
You get 10+1 relics for every character, which currently gives you 170 regular relics and +17 bonus relics.
Grabbing it for 5k theo gives you 37.4 relics per 1000 theonite. (Don't buy it when it costs 10k)

Yes, the Hyper Pack for 5k theo is the best value, hands down, BUT, it is only available at that price under certain times (Christmas) and conditions (reaching a certain player level).

Realistically, an early stage player (or any player really) could do both; No one is saying you have to convert 10K theo to coins all at once, even if you convert 1600 theo for 1.84M coins, that would allow you to buy the occasional relic in the CoC and still save theo for the Hyper pack.

 

[Mornedil]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall someone saying the Hyper Variety Pack is available for 5k theo when you reach player level 60 (?)

So you kinda have to plan ahead to be able to afford that.

 

[evilgordo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall someone saying the Hyper Variety Pack is available for 5k theo when you reach player level 60 (?)

So you kinda have to plan ahead to be able to afford that.

Yes, the 5K Hyper pack is available when you reach Lvl 60 and 70 and when you first clear AE 100%.
Currently players can collect 3k theo a month (not counting BP).

 

[BallotBoxer]

Any players nearing those 60 or 70 milestones should perhaps hold off until December 2023 for the Hyper Variety Pack to reach the pinnacle of value. Marie will make it eighteen 10+1 sets. 198 fighters!

Or if one is confident in earning theonite (to hit that 3k a month rate evilgordo mentions), then 5 months should be enough time to drum up 5k to save for the HVP.