Characters Heavy Handed Rework

[Thesmellofman]

OLD (SM1)
Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT.
OLD (SM2)
While reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5/7/10 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after the next HIT.

NEW (SM1)
Gain ENRAGE upon landing a critical hit. ENRAGE lasts for 6/7/8 seconds. While enraged, there is a 30% chance to inflict DEATH MARK on your next attack. DEATH MARK lasts for 4 seconds.
NEW (SM2)
When reaching below 30% Hit points, gain HEAVY REGEN for 10/11/12 seconds and UNFLINCHING for 4/5/6 seconds.


"This variant's color palette is inspired by the ‘Heavy' from Team Fortress 2. In the game, the Heavy is a tanky class and in the game there is a unique mechanic called 'Random Crits,' which gives a chance to significantly increase bullet or melee damage, often resulting in an instant kill. It makes sense to incorporate this feature into this Cerebella variant by granting her increased damage when she lands a critical hit. The addition of the Death Mark further enhances her threat level, evoking the chaotic feel of TF2’s random crits dealing massive damage.

My idea is to elevate this low-tier diamond fighter to A or S-tier by incorporating some TF2 mechanics into the variant. In TF2, the Heavy fully regenerates health by eating a 'Sandvich,' so I applied a similar mechanic to this variant, allowing her to recover health when her HP drops below 30%."

This version I feel is more structured and polished and gives it that TF2 feel.

 

[Aoskull]

OLD (SM1)
Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT.
OLD (SM2)
While reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5/7/10 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after the next HIT.

NEW (SM1)
Gain ENRAGE upon landing a critical hit. ENRAGE lasts for 8 seconds. While enraged, there is a 30% chance to inflict DEATH MARK on your next attack. DEATH MARK lasts for 4 seconds.
NEW (SM2)
When reaching below 30% Hit points, gain HEAVY REGEN for 12 seconds and UNFLINCHING for 6 seconds.


"This variant's color palette is inspired by the ‘Heavy' from Team Fortress 2. In the game, the Heavy is a tanky class and in the game there is a unique mechanic called 'Random Crits,' which gives a chance to significantly increase bullet or melee damage, often resulting in an instant kill. It makes sense to incorporate this feature into this Cerebella variant by granting her increased damage when she lands a critical hit. The addition of the Death Mark further enhances her threat level, evoking the chaotic feel of TF2’s random crits dealing massive damage.

My idea is to elevate this low-tier diamond fighter to A or S-tier by incorporating some TF2 mechanics into the variant. In TF2, the Heavy fully regenerates health by eating a 'Sandvich,' so I applied a similar mechanic to this variant, allowing her to recover health when her HP drops below 30%."

This version I feel is more structured and polished and gives it that TF2 feel.

This will make her lose her original form and become a completely different fighter! Imo her charge attack-based tactics have shaped her for many years, so I hope devs will not completely erase them. Here’s my suggestion.

Heavy Handed
Sig1 - Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE will removed after next hit. Gain 1 stack of PRECISION whenever you gain ENRAGE.

Sig2 - When reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 6/7/8 seconds. Also, while benefiting from UNFLINCHING, gain permanent DEADEYE.

- I’ve added precision stacks to sig1. With this change, you still have chance to land precision finish by strong single-hit moves when fails to kill opponent by charge attack. Charges give you additional stacks anytime, so if the opponent shows an opening, charge them quickly to land “Heavy” precision hits!

- Unflinching will not disappear after the next hit, and also gain deadeye to go with it. These abilities can be used in a similar way to Hex Caliber, and allows her to safely and aggressively attack with precision. It will definitely further expanding her role as an annoying defender killer! Using with Evergreen would also be a good option to make her shine more!

- To make it less OP, unflinching duration has been slightly reduced. But that doesn't change the fact that it will be much easier to use than ever before!!

 

[SvenZ]

OLD (SM1)
Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT.
OLD (SM2)
While reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5/7/10 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after the next HIT.

NEW (SM1)
Gain ENRAGE upon landing a critical hit. ENRAGE lasts for 8 seconds. While enraged, there is a 30% chance to inflict DEATH MARK on your next attack. DEATH MARK lasts for 4 seconds.
NEW (SM2)
When reaching below 30% Hit points, gain HEAVY REGEN for 12 seconds and UNFLINCHING for 6 seconds.


"This variant's color palette is inspired by the ‘Heavy' from Team Fortress 2. In the game, the Heavy is a tanky class and in the game there is a unique mechanic called 'Random Crits,' which gives a chance to significantly increase bullet or melee damage, often resulting in an instant kill. It makes sense to incorporate this feature into this Cerebella variant by granting her increased damage when she lands a critical hit. The addition of the Death Mark further enhances her threat level, evoking the chaotic feel of TF2’s random crits dealing massive damage.

My idea is to elevate this low-tier diamond fighter to A or S-tier by incorporating some TF2 mechanics into the variant. In TF2, the Heavy fully regenerates health by eating a 'Sandvich,' so I applied a similar mechanic to this variant, allowing her to recover health when her HP drops below 30%."

This version I feel is more structured and polished and gives it that TF2 feel.

I never actually stopped to consider the reference and how it can inspire to improve the variant. You rework encourages the use of Bella's multi-hit attacks in order to stack up Enrages fast, hence the Heavy's minigun weapon of choice. I really like that!

SA1 apart from some value adjustments looks pretty good to me.

I know there are people who don't like the use of taunts or specific moves in order to trigger effects, but imo having her Taunt be tied to SA2's effect would be better for the reference. For example:

New SA2:

On taunt also gain Regen for 10/12/15 seconds and 1 second of INVINSIBLE per stack of ENRAGE on Cerebella.

This works as both a reference to the Heavy's sandwich and as the core target for the Uber Charge which grants invisibility. Gameplay wise, it may open the door for some gimmicky 2-3 Taunt builds, with Harley support. But I think that's more than fine

This will make her lose her original form and become a completely different fighter! Imo her charge attack-based tactics have shaped her for many years, so I hope devs will not completely erase them.

I think that's completely fine. The gimmick can be re-used for a future Bella which will thematically fit more. Given how unpopular she is, I doubt anyone is going to really miss it. Considering the potential of what her rework can be. Heavy from TF2 is a durable mini-gun wielding dude that heals himself by eating sandwiches. Nothing from Heavy Handed's current kit really represent that.

I think OP is on the right track with this one

 

[Thesmellofman]

This will make her lose her original form and become a completely different fighter! Imo her charge attack-based tactics have shaped her for many years, so I hope devs will not completely erase them. Here’s my suggestion.

Heavy Handed
Sig1 - Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE will removed after next hit. Gain 1 stack of PRECISION whenever you gain ENRAGE.

Sig2 - When reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 6/7/8 seconds. Also, while benefiting from UNFLINCHING, gain permanent DEADEYE.

- I’ve added precision stacks to sig1. With this change, you still have chance to land precision finish by strong single-hit moves when fails to kill opponent by charge attack. Charges give you additional stacks anytime, so if the opponent shows an opening, charge them quickly to land “Heavy” precision hits!

- Unflinching will not disappear after the next hit, and also gain deadeye to go with it. These abilities can be used in a similar way to Hex Caliber, and allows her to safely and aggressively attack with precision. It will definitely further expanding her role as an annoying defender killer! Using with Evergreen would also be a good option to make her shine more!

- To make it less OP, unflinching duration has been slightly reduced. But that doesn't change the fact that it will be much easier to use than ever before!!

Her original form is the reason why she isn't good at the moment. I like your idea, but it doesn't give the feeling of playing as the 'Heavy' from TF2. Charge attacks I feel like are rarely used and its certain situations, I personally never use charged attacks and when I do its rare. But everyone is different that's just my opinion. I do really like the idea of gaining 1 stack of precision when enraged. But losing the enrage after one attack is very bad for a diamond variant. My idea was to make this variant more fun and jump into the action instead of waiting for the action to start.

 

[SvenZ]

Her original form is the reason why she isn't good at the moment. I like your idea, but it doesn't give the feeling of playing as the 'Heavy' from TF2. Charge attacks I feel like are rarely used and its certain situations, I personally never use charged attacks and when I do its rare. But everyone is different that's just my opinion. I do really like the idea of gaining 1 stack of precision when enraged. But losing the enrage after one attack is very bad for a diamond variant. My idea was to make this variant more fun and jump into the action instead of waiting for the action to start.

It really depends on the character and opponent you're facing. Bella's charge attack causes a knockdown which causes people generally to avoid it. And again, I completely agree that thematically it doesn't fit her reference at all. The closest thing to a charge attack in TF2 would be the Sniper class. The complete opposite of the heavy

 

[Thesmellofman]

I never actually stopped to consider the reference and how it can inspire to improve the variant. You rework encourages the use of Bella's multi-hit attacks in order to stack up Enrages fast, hence the Heavy's minigun weapon of choice. I really like that!

SA1 apart from some value adjustments looks pretty good to me.

I know there are people who don't like the use of taunts or specific moves in order to trigger effects, but imo having her Taunt be tied to SA2's effect would be better for the reference. For example:

New SA2:

On taunt also gain Regen for 10/12/15 seconds and 1 second of INVINSIBLE per stack of ENRAGE on Cerebella.

This works as both a reference to the Heavy's sandwich and as the core target for the Uber Charge which grants invisibility. Gameplay wise, it may open the door for some gimmicky 2-3 Taunt builds, with Harley support. But I think that's more than fine



I think that's completely fine. The gimmick can be re-used for a future Bella which will thematically fit more. Given how unpopular she is, I doubt anyone is going to really miss it. Considering the potential of what her rework can be. Heavy from TF2 is a durable mini-gun wielding dude that heals himself by eating sandwiches. Nothing from Heavy Handed's current kit really represent that.

I think OP is on the right track with this one.

I actually like that idea, Valve loves their TF2 taunts.

 

[Kheul]

I don't like the complete rework of her kit, and I don't think this change would make her an A or S-tier character either. She would still be the worst Cerebella diamond. If your only concern was that you thought her current kit had nothing to do with the reference, I would understand, but to think she would be better this way? No.

Her SA1 is pretty much the same with Sheltered SA2, what she got over her is that this version's enrage a second longer and she has a semi-random death mark with 4 seconds. While death mark alone and her base ATK gives her a big boost in terms of damage, giving it a relatively low chance to activate with such a low duration considering Cerebella's combo potentail doesn't seem good to me.

Her SA2 would be one of the weakest safety nets in the game. You can check Big Top and Raw Nerv for better safety net applications.

Also fundamentally, she has lots of grabs, some of her moves doesn't do crit at all (including her BB3s) she doesn't incentivize you to build crit it would be mostly a waste considering her kit. But I could imagine she doing a ton of damage with her Diamond's are Forever, but I would rather a precision hit instead of going crit on her. This is just what I think tho, it is fine making characters do unorthodox builds, I would consider a new build if the variant is worth it.

At the end, we would get another Cerebella with big damage and nothing else.

 

[SvenZ]

I don't like the complete rework of her kit, and I don't think this change would make her an A or S-tier character either. She would still be the worst Cerebella diamond. If your only concern was that you thought her current kit had nothing to do with the reference, I would understand, but to think she would be better this way? No.

Her SA1 is pretty much the same with Sheltered SA2, what she got over her is that this version's enrage a second longer and she has a semi-random death mark with 4 seconds. While death mark alone and her base ATK gives her a big boost in terms of damage, giving it a relatively low chance to activate with such a low duration considering Cerebella's combo potentail doesn't seem good to me.

Her SA2 would be one of the weakest safety nets in the game. You can check Big Top and Raw Nerv for better safety net applications.

Also fundamentally, she has lots of grabs, some of her moves doesn't do crit at all (including her BB3s) she doesn't incentivize you to build crit it would be mostly a waste considering her kit. But I could imagine she doing a ton of damage with her Diamond's are Forever, but I would rather a precision hit instead of going crit on her. This is just what I think tho, it is fine making characters do unorthodox builds, I would consider a new build if the variant is worth it.

At the end, we would get another Cerebella with big damage and nothing else.

I absolutely forgot about Sheltered. Your argument for crits is also completely fair. I think on Hit mechanic would still be good for her, but the currently proposed approach must be altered

 

[Thesmellofman]

I don't like the complete rework of her kit, and I don't think this change would make her an A or S-tier character either. She would still be the worst Cerebella diamond. If your only concern was that you thought her current kit had nothing to do with the reference, I would understand, but to think she would be better this way? No.

Her SA1 is pretty much the same with Sheltered SA2, what she got over her is that this version's enrage a second longer and she has a semi-random death mark with 4 seconds. While death mark alone and her base ATK gives her a big boost in terms of damage, giving it a relatively low chance to activate with such a low duration considering Cerebella's combo potentail doesn't seem good to me.

Her SA2 would be one of the weakest safety nets in the game. You can check Big Top and Raw Nerv for better safety net applications.

Also fundamentally, she has lots of grabs, some of her moves doesn't do crit at all (including her BB3s) she doesn't incentivize you to build crit it would be mostly a waste considering her kit. But I could imagine she doing a ton of damage with her Diamond's are Forever, but I would rather a precision hit instead of going crit on her. This is just what I think tho, it is fine making characters do unorthodox builds, I would consider a new build if the variant is worth it.

At the end, we would get another Cerebella with big damage and nothing else.

I don't agree that she will still be the worst. There are far worse variants out there. Understudy for example is very bad. I feel like you’re judging this idea too soon without considering every possible outcome. I’ll admit I could adjust a few things, but I didn’t want to overtune this variant and make it seem like a desperate attempt to save her. I think referencing the inspiration behind the color palette is a more creative idea. It may not always work, but I feel like it does work for this variant when given the right abilities.

Maybe the SM2 could be tweaked a bit more conceptually, but I was trying to stay somewhat true to the old SM2 by giving it the unflinching ability and by refencing the game its inspired by. As for Big Top, it seems to be more of a defensive fighter, whereas this Cerebella would be offensive. I feel like the safety net I gave her would be very helpful and could lead to some good comebacks in a fight, making it more interesting. And double checking some details yes I agree the SM2 could be stronger and by making the passive activate around a 50% mark instead of 30%, I also thought about giving her the ability to inflict armor break on her next attack for 7 seconds when at 50% HP, but I think that could be over kill giving the enrage stacks and Death mark.

Cerebella is mostly a grab character, but this new kit would make her utilize abilities that aren’t grab-based. There are a few moves that do critical damage, like Lock N' Load, Battle Butt, CereCopter, Diamond Dynamo, Diamonds Are Forever, and the first hit on Grab Bag. It opens up more possibilities for new techniques. I think it would be cool to see a standard grab character turn into something more unique. This would benefit the character long term by giving her a fresh new playstyle. Yes, I took some inspiration from Sheltered Parasol, but that fighter is an offensive A-tier according to the official wiki, so it works. I’ll admit it’s not the most original idea, but I was trying to work around the thematic color palette to add more personality.

I don't see an issue with Cerebella with big damage. I get that more modern Exclusive Diamond Variants are more intricate, but this Diamond variant is a bit old, and I was trying to keep it simple.

I’d love to hear your idea for a rework of this variant. I’m always open to feedback.

 

[Stone]

While I do like taking the reference as inspiration for the ability, I have to agree with some of the other people replying, she'd still be a bad diamond this way.

I feel like the safety net I gave her would be very helpful and could lead to some good comebacks in a fight, making it more interesting

except in 99% of the cases, she would already be dead by the time unflinching allowed her to move again (remember, it isnt evasion that instantly ignores the next hit).

think it would be cool to see a standard grab character turn into something more unique. This would benefit the character long term by giving her a fresh new playstyle

100% agree with this. diamonds should play different imo.

Yes, I took some inspiration from Sheltered Parasol, but that fighter is an offensive A-tier according to the official wiki, so it works.

but theres also your issue: parasoul works way better as a crit based fighter to begin with. (namely marquee)

I don't see an issue with Cerebella with big damage.

You could argue she already is, yet here you are with a buff suggestion. It most likely will be some more damage, but your buff suggestion wouldnt change many (if any) of her current 'match-ups'. Adding precision for instance (part of someone else's suggestion) would allow her to deal with more defenders, but wouldnt make others (painwheel) impossible since bella could still grab loop.

Hope the feedback helps! Love to see more ideas on Heavy handed!

 

[Kheul]

I don't agree that she will still be the worst. There are far worse variants out there. Understudy for example is very bad. I feel like you’re judging this idea too soon without considering every possible outcome.

In my comment I said she would still be the worst Cerebella diamond, I was comparing her to other dia Cerebellas. I can only speak from experience, but I just don't see how this is better than any of her diamond counterparts

I think referencing the inspiration behind the color palette is a more creative idea. It may not always work, but I feel like it does work for this variant when given the right abilities.

To be honest, I never imagined Heavy with his minigun when I thought about Heavy Handed; it only felt like they were referencing his strong physique, which explains the charge attack mechanic. Sure minigun can be thought as the complementary part of the Heavy, but I just don't see it working on her, that is just my opinion tho, you of course can rework her to your heart's content.

As for Big Top, it seems to be more of a defensive fighter, whereas this Cerebella would be offensive.

She can be used in rift offense, as she has access to cleanse, sustain and self-revive.

It opens up more possibilities for new techniques. I think it would be cool to see a standard grab character turn into something more unique.

"It is fine making characters do unorthodox builds, I would consider a new build if the variant is worth it." This is what I said in my previous comment. This reworked version doesn't make me want to build a set for her. Because if I had built a crit set for Fukua they would work so much better than this Cerebella. Fukua has better sustain, better debuffs, better combos and better damage. I'm not even comparing her to a specific variant of Fukua, I'm comparing her to basic Fukua, with no signatures. This variant doesn't do anything better than any Fukua would.

If we are talking about uniqueness, her charge attack mechanic was quite unique tho, it opened up different ways of playstyle too, but it just wasn't worth the effort. That unique gameplay style was scrapped because you saw Heavy Handed differently, and that's perfectly fine.

As you know we have another Cerebella with death mark in her kit, Criminal Mind. How was your experience with her, because she would be the closest thing to reworked Heavy Handed. As Criminal Mind encourages a somewhat a similiar gameplay style to your reworked Heavy Handed. I'm asking because I haven't invested in her.

I don't see an issue with Cerebella with big damage. I get that more modern Exclusive Diamond Variants are more intricate, but this Diamond variant is a bit old, and I was trying to keep it simple.

I mostly assess a variant by its enjoyability, practicality and functionality. Is it fun to use? Is it easy to utilize? What does it do when it works? For example, I have so much fun playing with Wind Stalker that I don't care about her functionality isn't that impactful at all. Or Dream Catcher her functionality is pretty decent but her practicality lacks, requires specific teams to work consistently, but when she works, she pops enemies like a baloon. And then there is Death Wish who does everything. But when I assess this reworked Heavy Handed from my personal aspects, I just can't see anything interesting about her.

I’d love to hear your idea for a rework of this variant. I’m always open to feedback.

I posted my idea few months ago in a similar discussion thread. Here it is:

SA1:

CHARGE ATTACKS bounce enemies off the wall (similar to Marie's Haymaker) and remove one DEBUFF from self. During CHARGE ATTACK you have UNFLINCHING and cannot suffer more than 25/20/15% HEALTH from a single HIT.

SA2:

UNFLINCHING grants ENRAGE AND PRECISION every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds. Each PRECISION hit deals UNHEALABLE DAMAGE and converts one ENRAGE to REGEN for 5 seconds.

---

I hope you can tell me what do you think about my iteration, so we can try to understand how each other assesses reworks.

I like having discussions like this, I hope I didn't say anything hurtful mistakenly, because I tend to be a bit direct when I state my opinions. See ya again!

 

[Thesmellofman]

While I do like taking the reference as inspiration for the ability, I have to agree with some of the other people replying, she'd still be a bad diamond this way.

except in 99% of the cases, she would already be dead by the time unflinching allowed her to move again (remember, it isnt evasion that instantly ignores the next hit).

100% agree with this. diamonds should play different imo.

but theres also your issue: parasoul works way better as a crit based fighter to begin with. (namely marquee)


You could argue she already is, yet here you are with a buff suggestion. It most likely will be some more damage, but your buff suggestion wouldnt change many (if any) of her current 'match-ups'. Adding precision for instance (part of someone else's suggestion) would allow her to deal with more defenders, but wouldnt make others (painwheel) impossible since bella could still grab loop.

Hope the feedback helps! Love to see more ideas on Heavy handed!

I agree. I feel I should had a more aggressive and unique concept. I'm kind of stuck to find a way to fix this Variant. she is in a pickle at the moment. and for the SM2, I undershot it, I should have done a bit more research on other variants to compare, because yes my idea is extremely weak and very punishable. But hey its just a concept, and I dont main Cerebella I was just trying to fix what is broken to maybe help the Cerabella mains out there.

 

[Thesmellofman]

In my comment I said she would still be the worst Cerebella diamond, I was comparing her to other dia Cerebellas. I can only speak from experience, but I just don't see how this is better than any of her diamond counterparts

To be honest, I never imagined Heavy with his minigun when I thought about Heavy Handed; it only felt like they were referencing his strong physique, which explains the charge attack mechanic. Sure minigun can be thought as the complementary part of the Heavy, but I just don't see it working on her, that is just my opinion tho, you of course can rework her to your heart's content.

She can be used in rift offense, as she has access to cleanse, sustain and self-revive.

"It is fine making characters do unorthodox builds, I would consider a new build if the variant is worth it." This is what I said in my previous comment. This reworked version doesn't make me want to build a set for her. Because if I had built a crit set for Fukua they would work so much better than this Cerebella. Fukua has better sustain, better debuffs, better combos and better damage. I'm not even comparing her to a specific variant of Fukua, I'm comparing her to basic Fukua, with no signatures. This variant doesn't do anything better than any Fukua would.

If we are talking about uniqueness, her charge attack mechanic was quite unique tho, it opened up different ways of playstyle too, but it just wasn't worth the effort. That unique gameplay style was scrapped because you saw Heavy Handed differently, and that's perfectly fine.

As you know we have another Cerebella with death mark in her kit, Criminal Mind. How was your experience with her, because she would be the closest thing to reworked Heavy Handed. As Criminal Mind encourages a somewhat a similiar gameplay style to your reworked Heavy Handed. I'm asking because I haven't invested in her.

I mostly assess a variant by its enjoyability, practicality and functionality. Is it fun to use? Is it easy to utilize? What does it do when it works? For example, I have so much fun playing with Wind Stalker that I don't care about her functionality isn't that impactful at all. Or Dream Catcher her functionality is pretty decent but her practicality lacks, requires specific teams to work consistently, but when she works, she pops enemies like a baloon. And then there is Death Wish who does everything. But when I assess this reworked Heavy Handed from my personal aspects, I just can't see anything interesting about her.

I posted my idea few months ago in a similar discussion thread. Here it is:

SA1:

CHARGE ATTACKS bounce enemies off the wall (similar to Marie's Haymaker) and remove one DEBUFF from self. During CHARGE ATTACK you have UNFLINCHING and cannot suffer more than 25/20/15% HEALTH from a single HIT.

SA2:

UNFLINCHING grants ENRAGE AND PRECISION every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds. Each PRECISION hit deals UNHEALABLE DAMAGE and converts one ENRAGE to REGEN for 5 seconds.

---

I hope you can tell me what do you think about my iteration, so we can try to understand how each other assesses reworks.

I like having discussions like this, I hope I didn't say anything hurtful mistakenly, because I tend to be a bit direct when I state my opinions. See ya again!

I think your concept is way cooler, it would make it rewarding to charge an attack and it keeps her unique play style. I needed to do a bit more research on Cerebella as a whole. I don't main her I play her every now and then so I'm no expert, I just see she has more potential and I over looked Criminal mind, I honestly I forgot she existed. Ya live and learn.