Characters Marie - Snake Charmer [ Rework ]

[SvenZ]

Overview​

Maid of Honor is the defensive Silver variant. Phantom Wrangler is the offensive one. That should leave Snake as the utility variant, and that's definitely the aim with her original design. However, it does not provide enough to warrant investing in her, as her effects can be more easily accessed via other means. The goal of this remake is boost her utility as a revival character, which is the idea behind her original design.

NEW Signature Ability 1​
HITS from SKELETAL SUMMONS inflict IMMOBILIZE and DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS for 10 seconds each, and have a 20/35/50% chance to also inflict FATIGUE for 10 seconds.​

NEW Signature Ability 2​
​ While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, Marie grants allies ENRAGE and gains a MORTUARY CHARGE that only revives allies. While Marie is alive, teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER when REVIVED.​

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Pros and Cons for SA 1 changes:

Spoiler: Signature Ability 1

Pros:

1. The effect no longer requires Marie to have some level of Mortuary charge.
2. Fatigue's stun can allow Snake Charmer to more safely build up Mortuary Charges.
3. Fatigue's stun effect is a good reference to Medusa(the character on which the variant is based on).
4. Skeletal Summon Blockbusters can now also apply the effect!


Cons:

1. Certain Special Moves that could apply the effect, can no longer do that.
2. Now requires you to actually hit the opponent. Right now you simply have to use a Special Move

Pros and Cons for SA 2 changes:

Spoiler: Signature Ability 2

Pros:

1. You can now revive allies much sooner! (A big problem with Marie is how long it takes for her Mortuary charge to build up, making her unreliable as a revive character in higher streaks, where you can't turtle and charge up.)
2. Revived allies (all sources!) now benefit from the bonus BB METER and also gain additional heal.
a) This makes her a pretty good pairing with Val.
b) This change works in tandem with her REINFORCED REVIVAL Marquee.
c) Her old SA2 is already a modified version of her IMPROVED INCINERATION Marquee. Imo using the purely defensive aspects of both her Marquees for her reworked SA would make her much more favorable.
3. You now grant Enrage to allies much more reliably. No longer do you need to spend a Mortuary charge, which takes a very long time to charge up.

Cons:

1. The ENRAGE is no longer permanent. If Marie uses her Mortuary charge and drops to 0% again, the ENRAGE will be lost.
2. Only revived allies gain BB Meter

Changelog

Spoiler: changelog

Pre - 2nd of November 2024 Signature Ability 2 OLD While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, Marie gains a MORTUARY CHARGE that can only revive allies. While Marie is alive, teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER and an additional 15% HEALTH when REVIVED.​ NEW While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, Marie grants allies permanent ENRAGE and gains a MORTUARY CHARGE that can only revive allies. While Marie is alive, teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER when REVIVED.​

Pre - 2nd of October 2024​ Signature Ability 1​ OLD While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, using a SPECIAL MOVE inflicts IMMOBILIZE and DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS for 10 seconds each.​ NEW Hitting the opponent with a SPECIAL MOVE inflicts IMMOBILIZE for 10 seconds. Also apply DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED​ Signature Ability 2​ OLD When using a MORTUARY CHARGE, all teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER and permanent ENRAGE.​ NEW When using a MORTUARY CHARGE, remove all buffs from the opponent, STUN them and apply CURSE for 4/6/8 seconds.​

Pre - 17th of July 2024​ Signature Ability 1​ OLD While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, using a SPECIAL MOVE inflicts IMMOBILIZE and DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS for 10 seconds each.​ NEW MORTUARY CHARGE builds up 20/35/50% faster. While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, using a SPECIAL MOVE inflicts IMMOBILIZE and DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS for 10 seconds each.​ Reasons for the SA1 buff: Spoiler 1. SA1 is good for new players, as it's a reliable way of applying Disable Blockbuster. The only issue is the speed at which you access the effect. Yes, 50% charge is not super hard to achieve, but it has to be kept in mind that she competes with a lot of other strong Marie variants. 2. Marie currently doesn't have a variant which allows her to quickly build up Mortuary Charges. Given that her SA2 strictly works out of using it, allowing a fast charge would be beneficial. 3. SA2 requirements contradict SA1 requirements. Meaning that once you use a Mortuary Charge, your SA1 will not trigger anymore and you'll have to charge up again. I understand the reasoning behind this decision, however given the speed of the game, it quickly falls out of favor in the later stages. With this change, you can quickly build up the necessary charge to trigger SA1 again. 4. Given that she's a Silver, I don't think she should be incredibly strong, but she should serve a niche. And her niche should be an easy access to revive, thanks to fast Mortuary Charge build up. Her relatively low damage and average health make her a perfect candidate for this role Signature Ability 2​ OLD When using a MORTUARY CHARGE, all teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER and permanent ENRAGE.​ NEW When using a MORTUARY CHARGE: on INCINERATING a dead body, grant permanent 1/2/3 ENRAGE to all allies or 1/2/3 ARMOR when REVIVING an ally. A stack of ARMOR and ENRAGE are lost when knocked down.​ Reasons for the SA2 buff: Spoiler 1. This change will give her a much more impactful use of a Mortuary Charge. It's already a slightly stronger version of her Incinerate Marquee. We're however removing the bonus BB Meter aspect, and only enchasing the buffs. 2. Armor is now also added, making her more viable as a defender. The improved Mortuary charge time makes a more viable revive option, and she can work quite well with armor based characters, and be especially useful in rifts. 3. A charge of ARMOR and ENRAGE are moved however when knocked down for balance purposes. 4. Each buff is gained via Incinerate and Revive respectfully. So on offense, she'll grant more damage and synergy with Enrage based characters. On defense, she boosts defenses even further

Pre - 27th of May 2024​
[OLD] When using a MORTUARY CHARGE, all teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER and permanent ENRAGE and THORNS.
[NEW] When using a MORTUARY CHARGE: on INCINERATING a dead body, grant permanent 1/2/3 ENRAGE to all allies or 1/2/3 ARMOR when REVIVING an ally. A stack of ARMOR and ENRAGE are lost when knocked down.
Old Reasoning behind SA2 changes Spoiler 1. SA2 already as already mentioned allows you to almost immediately use a BB3 if you have your marquee leveled up. And the Enrage buff is nice, however due to how slow it's gained and how many other characters give Enrage, but faster, imo the SA2 should add 1 more buff. 2. Why Thorns? I was torn(pun intended) between Thorns and Armor. Both are defensive, however I then considered in which teams she'd be good. With her current design, she's better suited for offense, so Thorns was the obvious answer. A lot of characters synergize well with Thorns, providing them not only with a defensive, but also offensive upper hand. 3. This will interestingly enough make her synergize better with one of her own variants, "Bare Bones". Not greatly mind you, but characters like Unfazed for example would benefit extremely well from this. Even without the SA1 buff, this change alone could make her a staple on certain teams. Bonus: A lot of people seem to forget that Marie herself benefits from SA2, so combined with her Marquee "Improved Incineration", she gains a total of 75% BB meter after using a Mortuary Charge, pretty much guaranteeing a BB3 use from her. And with the improved charge rate, BB3 can also benefit from the damage bonus, since you can charge up charges much faster.

 

[SvenZ]

Whanged her SA2 to the following:

- When INCINERATING a dead body, grant permanent 1/2/3 ENRAGE to all allies. - When REVIVING an ally, grant permanent 1/2/3 ARMOR to all allies. - A stack of ARMOR and ENRAGE are lost when knocked down.

Her SA2 was already a glorified version of her marquee "Improved Incineration". So let's double down on it and make it more viable. She no longer provides BB Meter, but instead a lot more stacks of Enrage and also Armor now.

Combined with her faster charge time from SA1, she can be an annoying early game defender with the extra armor she provides when reviving. Or she can provide a decent attack boost to your team, along with benefiting ENRAGE based characters a lot more now

 

[MDude]

- When INCINERATING a dead body, grant permanent 1/2/3 ENRAGE to all allies. - When REVIVING an ally, grant permanent 1/2/3 ARMOR to all allies. - A stack of ARMOR and ENRAGE are lost when knocked down.

It seems you've run into a classic SGM translation mix-up (I.E. Timeless Hero) by saying a buff is permanent yet can be lost when knocked dow, it should be timeless instead to get around that wording.

Her SA2 was already a glorified version of her marquee "Improved Incineration". So let's double down on it and make it more viable. She no longer provides BB Meter, but instead a lot more stacks of Enrage and also Armor now.

You turned her into a budget Megalomaniac but with an easier way to pull it off, I like the meter one but this change is good.

Combined with her faster charge time from SA1, she can be an annoying early game defender with the extra armor she provides when reviving. Or she can provide a decent attack boost to your team, along with benefiting ENRAGE based characters a lot more now

Making her a cheaper option for those (like me) who didn't get Seraph Soldier was a clever idea. Good rework, there's potential room for improvement from more experienced players, but I wouldn't mind if she gets this rework

 

[SvenZ]

It seems you've run into a classic SGM translation mix-up (I.E. Timeless Hero) by saying a buff is permanent yet can be lost when knocked dow, it should be timeless instead to get around that wording.

You turned her into a budget Megalomaniac but with an easier way to pull it off, I like the meter one but this change is good.

Making her a cheaper option for those (like me) who didn't get Seraph Soldier was a clever idea. Good rework, there's potential room for improvement from more experienced players, but I wouldn't mind if she gets this rework

Thanks for the review! How do you advise I reword the description? On a lot of characters which gain a permanent attribute that can be lost, it's worded the same way.

 

[evilgordo]

Thanks for the review! How do you advise I reword the description? On a lot of characters which gain a permanent attribute that can be lost, it's worded the same way.

Your wording is fine. The main reason for gaining a modifier as 'permanent' as it prevents other abilities from removing them. As you said, that templating is in use on multiple modifiers/abilities, especially where there are other requirements/triggers to removing them.

 

[SvenZ]

Made some pretty drastic changes.

SA1
- Effect only activates when a Special Move hits the opponent.
- IMMOBILIZE is now always applied, not requiring any charging.
- Only the DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS part requires you to be partially charged.

SA2
- Now STUNS the opponent and applies WITHER when using a Mortuary Charge


This change allows Snake Charmer to immobilize the opponent much faster. That in turn allows her to much more safely charge up. After using a charge, no matter if it's a revive or incinerate and no matter the distance, the opponent will be stunned. The stun gives you more than enough time to gain another charge and then go for a combo or tag in an ally to finish off the opponent. The buff removal and curse make sure the enemy is weakened during the stun period so you can utilize it better


My argument for the very high stun is that other characters have either very long stuns as well, or easier conditions to pull it off

 

[SvenZ]

Re-re-reworked Snake Charmer. In this iteration, the focus is to have her be more revive focused, while also making her more annoying with Fatigue applications. Here are the new SAs

NEW Signature Ability 1​
HITS from SKELETAL SUMMONS inflict IMMOBILIZE and DISABLE BLOCKBUSTERS for 10 seconds each, and have a 20/35/50% chance to also inflict FATIGUE for 10 seconds.​

NEW Signature Ability 2​
While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, Marie gains a MORTUARY CHARGE that can only revive allies. While Marie is alive, teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER and an additional 15% HEALTH when REVIVED.​

 

[Kheul]

Hey, hope you are doing well.

Just checked out your last version of Snake Charmer. Here is what I think:

New SA1 is almost a direct upgrade. Looks alright but nothing too impactful. I think we have been getting a bit too many Maries with "SKELETAL SUMMONS" synergy, it doesn't feel that special at this point.

Idea behind the SA2 is very cool but what happened to her giving Perma Enrage. Not that I ever used her just to utilize that but I think that was one of her "signature" utility.

While being able to revive while half-charged is a big plus for Marie, the bonuses doesn't seem to be that impactful. She gives you 50% METER and a bit more health when you are revived. Considering you need to be dead (which is already a huge point loss in rifts, not that you would dedicatedly use her there but just saying), makes the revive quite weak when you think about it. You can compare this to Hype Man Beowulf who gives all teammates 50% Meter when he enters Hype Mode. How long does it take a Beowulf to get in Hype Mode, 10-12 seconds at worst? You don't even need to die to get the same amount.

But hey, you can think her as a safety net as she can revive more easily than other Maries, sure. She would be as useful as any other Valentine equipped with "Forbidden Procedure" or those who are prestiged, but she would fell off as a support if you also include Valentine's Marquee, TRAUMA CENTER. Which saves you from dying altogether, better solution in most cases compared to dying and then being able to activate the Signature Ability itself.

I think that instead of going for a cheaper revive with less utility where Valentine outshines her, preserving current niche of hers (Perma Enrage) would be the key to reworking her.

 

[SvenZ]

Hey, hope you are doing well.

Just checked out your last version of Snake Charmer. Here is what I think:

New SA1 is almost a direct upgrade. Looks alright but nothing too impactful. I think we have been getting a bit too many Maries with "SKELETAL SUMMONS" synergy, it doesn't feel that special at this point.

Idea behind the SA2 is very cool but what happened to her giving Perma Enrage. Not that I ever used her just to utilize that but I think that was one of her "signature" utility.

While being able to revive while half-charged is a big plus for Marie, the bonuses doesn't seem to be that impactful. She gives you 50% METER and a bit more health when you are revived. Considering you need to be dead (which is already a huge point loss in rifts, not that you would dedicatedly use her there but just saying), makes the revive quite weak when you think about it. You can compare this to Hype Man Beowulf who gives all teammates 50% Meter when he enters Hype Mode. How long does it take a Beowulf to get in Hype Mode, 10-12 seconds at worst? You don't even need to die to get the same amount.

But hey, you can think her as a safety net as she can revive more easily than other Maries, sure. She would be as useful as any other Valentine equipped with "Forbidden Procedure" or those who are prestiged, but she would fell off as a support if you also include Valentine's Marquee, TRAUMA CENTER. Which saves you from dying altogether, better solution in most cases compared to dying and then being able to activate the Signature Ability itself.

I think that instead of going for a cheaper revive with less utility where Valentine outshines her, preserving current niche of hers (Perma Enrage) would be the key to reworking her.

Hey! Thank you for your feedback! Apologies for the late response, I stopped playing and haven't really visited the forum much after.

SA1 is a bit awkward. I honestly like the current version, even though people **** hard on it. Yes, it's literally just Dahlia's Trap, but you don't even have to hit the enemy to proc it, and getting to 50% charge is not too bad.


SA2 on the other hand is an awkward one. Like you mentioned, it does have some utility, especially with Enrage dependent characters, and combined with Marie's Improved Inceneration Marquee, you pretty much have a Tier 3 BB ready to go.

That being said, my original proposal way back when, focused greatly on the Enrage aspect. I ultimately don't think it's the way to go for her. Marie's revive is better than that of Val's, as you don't have to worry about positioning, BB Meter or BB Lock. Additionally, the revival bonuses are applied on any instance of revival, not just her own. So if you revive someone with Val, or an ally has a self revive like DW, they'll still benefit from the effects. The % additional heal revived isn't much, but I was taking into account Marie's Revival Marquee, and how annoying it can get when the AI almost instantly revives an ally with a lot of health.

However, the SA is entirely dependent on an ally actually dying. So, I do agree that it's pretty finicky.


This will probably be my last suggestion for a while, but what about the following:

While at least 80/65/50% CHARGED, Marie grants allies permanent ENRAGE and gains a MORTUARY CHARGE that can only revive allies. While Marie is alive, teammates gain 25/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER when REVIVED.

The Enrage is far easier to access now, and will make her a pretty solid point character. Charge up and tag in Psycommander for example. If Psycommander or any other ally dies, you have a pocket revive at the ready, so tag her back in, revive the ally, and tag out again.