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Natural Diamonds discussion thread

Are Natural Diamonds a good idea?


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fanghoul

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I don't think you earn gold shards from being sent a gold in the mail, do you?

You absolutely get shards from cards received in the mail. I think that's why silver prize fights suddenly became more competitive when they released the more recent shard system.

(I mean, not a lot more competitive, but you now need to do a little more than reach progression to get the silver fighter.)
 

cappatacus

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You absolutely get shards from cards received in the mail. I think that's why silver prize fights suddenly became more competitive when they released the more recent shard system.

(I mean, not a lot more competitive, but you now need to do a little more than reach progression to get the silver fighter.)
Huh. Guess I didn't pay enough attention. Anyways, that's great news for this new update! Fingers crossed that it's out next week
 

Veeko

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While not necessarily related to Natural Diamonds, the devs have announced that after 3.0, the bonus relic from a 10+1 pack will never be a bronze! I think that’s pretty awesome! Thanks guys!
 
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xcapibara

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So you just want more diamonds because yes? What you suggest is just gonna make diamonds way more common. I could evolve about 6 more diamonds if elemental essence were removed. High level players have a big stock of golds from before diamonds released so you would just give them diamonds for free.

No, on the contrary, i am against the inclusion of natural diamonds. Diamonds are/were gonna become more common inevitably as time goes by but now, as you say, they’ll become way more common considering they are no longer an unique thing with extra requirements outside the normal “process” but a regular tier obtainable through shards, in various relics and whatever comes next, so, the evolution requirements should be consistent with the rest of the tiers in the game. Evolved diamonds are devalued and lesser now with the inclusion of a normal diamond tier not only in rarity, power value, but in time dedicated to gold pf vs elemental pf, etc. The requirements should then be regular and consistent as well.
 

evilgordo

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First off, you're describing the time to get 15 essences, because you largely can't help acquiring them all at the same time, which gives you 5 different diamonds.

As far as how long it take to get them, it's been about 5 months since Diamonds even became at thing, and I'm at about 4 essences per element, except dark and light, so that works out to getting 3 essences in each element in about 4 months, depending on activity? It's hard to say because my play has been super inconsistent during this period, and it makes a huge difference if you're getting the essence in Master mode dailies. But this is pretty consistent with what I was estimating months ago, because I was getting about one essence from one elemental prize fight to the next time it comes around, which is 5 weeks.
15 Essences in 3 months without opening Elemental Relics and not Top 10 Ele-PF and not 100% AE? I seriously doubt that's possible.

Yes with high activity & effort, in 1 week you can grind out 1010 Ele shards (though, 600 is random). You need 3000 shards of 1 element and need 5 extra golds of the that character you're evolving. My example was that with just 1-10% gold PF twice a week you get 80 Diamond shards and in 12.5 weeks (approx. 3 months) you're guaranteed a Nat Diamond (plus you still have 25 gold cards). Again, opening Relics could speed up both grinds depending on the (extreme) luck of your pulls. In the end though, aiming for a Natural Diamond seems to be the easier path.

fanghoul said:
More generally I think that at the moment natural Diamonds are not really a threat to evolved ones. It's just like when I was starting out, it was a lot easier to work with an evolved character when you don't have all the resources to max out a true character at that level.
Yes, Evolved fighter are supposed to be 'budget' versions of their 'true' counter parts, this is certainly true for silver/gold, but diamonds needing that extra essence grind when Naturals didn't exist make them worth the effort, but now...not so much, especially from a new/casual player perspective. End-Game/Hardcore players have already put in the time/effort to have the tools/resources to Evolve several Diamonds already, so Natural Diamonds are just the next thing to work on.

If Diamond keys require more effort to earn than Essence OR the Essence requirement is removed, then I think Evolved Diamonds will still have a place in player progression just like evolved silver/gold. Otherwise, IMHO, it just doesn't seem worth the effort/resources.

I guess in the end it's all about how you play/manage the game. I've only Evolved 5 Bronze to Silver and that's more to do with making space than needing an upgraded character. My desire for an Evolved Diamond has taken a backseat and I'll be focused on pulling my first Natural Diamond here on out. I'll evolve a Diamond eventually, when I have too many golds need to make space.
 
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infine

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15 Essences in 3 months without opening Elemental Relics and not Top 10 Ele-PF and not 100% AE? I seriously doubt that's possible.
I got back sometime around 2.5, so mid-late august, so 3,5 month, and yes, i just hit my essences to 3 (well, some more, some less) without top 10 in elementals or buying any elemental relics. So 15 essences per 3,5 month seems reasonable depending on luck.

So yes, potentially you get elemental essences faster than you can get natural diamonds.

Yes, Evolved fighter are supposed to be 'budget' versions of their 'true' counter parts, this is certainly true for silver/gold, but diamonds needing that extra essence grind when Naturals didn't exist make them worth the effort, but now...not so much, especially from a new/casual player perspective. End-Game/Hardcore players have already put in the time/effort to have the tools/resources to Evolve several Diamonds already, so Natural Diamonds are just the next thing to work on.
Well, diamond evolution requiring essences might be seen as a workaround against huge stockpiles of spare golds in veteran players hands. I mean if you released diamond evolution without essences limiting it's availability, we'd be having diamond floods from all the people who had nothing else to do with all the year worth of PF rewards. Also both golds and elemental shards aren't really things you specifically grind for at the expense of something else. Both are stuff that you kinda get along the way, and you don't have anything else to spend them on. So eventually they just kinda naturally grow into diamonds, and diamond evolution does not compete with anything else for resources. Meanwhile natural diamonds will burn through coins and skillpoints. So arguably natural diamonds require more effort to make them actually useful and not just a paperweight.
I guess in the end it's all about how you play/manage the game. I've only Evolved 5 Bronze to Silver and that's more to do with making space than needing an upgraded character.
It's the opposite for me. I have 3 lvl 50 gold bronzes, 7 or 8 lvl 40 silver bronzes, 3 lvl 50 gold silvers and some more incoming. The only limiting factor being the lack of coins. I take good SA (or being Squiggly) over natural tier.
 

fanghoul

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15 Essences in 3 months without opening Elemental Relics and not Top 10 Ele-PF and not 100% AE? I seriously doubt that's possible.

Yes with high activity & effort, in 1 week you can grind out 1010 Ele shards (though, 600 is random). You need 3000 shards of 1 element and need 5 extra golds of the that character you're evolving. My example was that with just 1-10% gold PF twice a week you get 80 Diamond shards and in 12.5 weeks (approx. 3 months) you're guaranteed a Nat Diamond (plus you still have 25 gold cards). Again, opening Relics could speed up both grinds depending on the (extreme) luck of your pulls. In the end though, aiming for a Natural Diamond seems to be the easier path.

That's why I said that it takes about 4 months to get 15 essenses. Your math confirms further confirms this.
 

evilgordo

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That's why I said that it takes about 4 months to get 15 essenses. Your math confirms further confirms this.
My point was that in 3 months of 1-10% Gold PF one is guaranteed a Natural Diamond. To me for my time, this is easier and quicker than grinding for Essence Shards to evolve an inferior Diamond. IMHO I don't like evolving cards because I don't like leveling them up again, I 'd rather put all my effort/resources in True variants of any rarity.
 

fanghoul

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My point was that in 3 months of 1-10% Gold PF one is guaranteed a Natural Diamond. To me for my time, this is easier and quicker than grinding for Essence Shards to evolve an inferior Diamond. IMHO I don't like evolving cards because I don't like leveling them up again, I 'd rather put all my effort/resources in True variants of any rarity.

In the long run gathering elemental shards is still dramatically faster. At 4 months it's 5 evolved to 1 natural. At 8 months it's 10 evolved to 2 natural. At a year, it get's slightly less skewed at 15 evolved to 4 naturals gained via gold shards. But it still doesn't even vaguely compare. I could be getting half the number of elemental shards and still have nearly twice as many diamonds in a year from evolving.

There's a ton of other resources that go into evolving a gold (just getting them to 50 is a pain) but I've been accumulating those by just farting around in the game, not painful grinding.

But we also apparently take this whole game differently. I'd evolve everyone if I could, because I love those progress bars moving right to left, and it starts feeling pointless to use a character when they max out. I also love finding new and weird things, and evolving characters helps me do it. Like it turns out Rusty Painwheel is GREAT at clearing out Ms. Fortune's Master Mode daily. In a fun twist, she can turn 5 stacks of Precision turn into permanent bleeds.
 

Veeko

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I got Love Crafted. You know the only one I didn’t want. Guess I’m stuck with her now haha
Here’s her SA
“When near an opponent, disable blockbusters and inflict HEAL BLOCK after 3 seconds. Every 10th COMBO HIT will land as a CRITICAL HIT and inflict DEATH MARK and HEAVY BLEED for 10 seconds.”
And here is Summer Salt Parasoul’s, since someone in the chat got her
“Opponents lose 1 buff and 1% HEALTH every 2 seconds while near a TEAR. When DETONATING at least 3 TEARS at once, REMOVE all DEBUFFS and gain 3 stacks of PRECISION. The detonated TEARS also deal 100% BONUS DAMAGE.”
I really, really want her. I’m gonna keep an eye on chat and try and get all of their SAs logged. Good luck y’all
 

cappatacus

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Jawbreaker
When TRANSMUTING, gain a random BUFF for 5 seconds.

Deal 10% bonus damage for every BUFF applied to Double.


Furry Fury
HEAD HITS have a 15% chance to inflict BLEED for 5 seconds.

Gain ENRAGE every 3 seconds while near an opponent suffering BLEED. The ENRAGE is removed when no longer near the opponent.

Heavy Handed
Gain ENRAGE every 0.3 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT.

When reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after next HIT.

Heavy Metal
10% chance to gain ARMOR for 5 seconds when hit with a close range attack (Includes Blocking).

While benefitting from ARMOR, BLOCKBUSTERS deal 50% bonus damage.

Stand Out
25% of all damage inflicted is regained as HEALTH as long as Eliza's health percentage is lower than her opponent's.

Each BUFF gained by the opponent has a 25% chance to be removed and immediately build 25% meter for all of Eliza's BLOCKBUSTERS.

Beyond the previously stated, this is all I've got.
 

Veeko

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Beowulf- DARK MIGHT
Damage dealt is increased by 25% for each teammate defeated.
Level 3 BLOCKBUSTERS have a 15% chance to instantly defeat enemies if Beowulf has no remaining teammates.

So Batwulf DOES have an instakill! Sounds pretty powerful- use him as a carry, just leave him on the backline instead of front?
 

TehSterBarn1

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Beowulf- DARK MIGHT
Damage dealt is increased by 25% for each teammate defeated.
Level 3 BLOCKBUSTERS have a 15% chance to instantly defeat enemies if Beowulf has no remaining teammates.

So Batwulf DOES have an instakill! Sounds pretty powerful- use him as a carry, just leave him on the backline instead of front?

I wonder if the ability procs if he's on a team alone?
 
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Luke

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Can we have a screen shot of how much coin is need for a skill node?
 

pigpigpigwwf

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Heavy Handed seems like a strange design to me, her SAs:

SA1: Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT

SA2: While reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5/7/10 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after the next HIT

seem to imply all she does is Falcon Punch! the enemy. What's the good in that? It's not like charge attack does that much damage.
Am I not seeing the potential in this character?
 

Reshiram18

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Heavy Handed seems like a strange design to me, her SAs:

SA1: Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT

SA2: While reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5/7/10 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after the next HIT

seem to imply all she does is Falcon Punch! the enemy. What's the good in that? It's not like charge attack does that much damage.
Am I not seeing the potential in this character?
If the charge attack whiffs you get to keep the enrages until you hit the opponent one time. You also keep the unflinching as well
 
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cappatacus

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Heavy Handed seems like a strange design to me, her SAs:

SA1: Gain ENRAGE every 0.3/0.2/0.1 seconds while charging a CHARGE ATTACK. ENRAGE is removed after the next HIT

SA2: While reaching 5 stacks of ENRAGE, gain UNFLINCHING for 5/7/10 seconds. UNFLINCHING is removed after the next HIT

seem to imply all she does is Falcon Punch! the enemy. What's the good in that? It's not like charge attack does that much damage.
Am I not seeing the potential in this character?
Reshiram is right, but even if it was just for charge attacks, that'd be a lot of damage. My HQ is a gold with a poor moveset and her DAF can dish out 25k. Imagine the stats of a natural diamond. Natural diamond stats + 100% bonus damage? Nice.