1. [2018/06/22]
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Natural Diamonds discussion thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TehSterBarn1, Nov 19, 2018.

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Are Natural Diamonds a good idea?

  1. Yes

    60.6%
  2. No

    39.4%
  1. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    I suppose there's a number of ways that could be used. The AI has a habit of periodically just hanging back and not doing anything, and you could easily charge an attack in that time. If it hits them, great! Cerebella's charge attack does a ton of damage to start with. But if it doesn't, you now have 5 stacks of enrage you might put into a Diamonds are Forever or a Diamond Drop or maybe just a Merry Go-Rilla or Battle Butt. She has a number of good moves that deal their damage in one lump that could benefit.

    Plus, I've been learning that Cerebella's pretty good at charging up an attack right after killing someone and punishing the next person to hop in the ring with an unblockable and unavoidable charge attack.

    It still doesn't sound like the best SA to me, but it has a bit more potential than it might seem at first.
     
  2. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

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    Witch is also why the update on how AI will be smarter countering charged atks. I frequently use bella’s Charge atk to spam the next two fighter to death. It’s got a nice rythum to it.

    I have also encountered a heavy handed Bella in rift boss node her fs was something like 33k. I also experienced her charges atk with 5 stacks of enrage and unflinching. Day-um.
     
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  3. cappatacus

    cappatacus Well-Known Member

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    But still...those stats tho. Cerebella has proved time and time again that she doesn't really need an amazing SA, she just needs damage. I mean, look at HQ. I've never seen someone describe her SA as anything but "helpful", yet she hits like a train. 100% bonus damage for any of her hits is terrifying. Although, I suppose I could understand where you're coming from if you thought it was meh because of the charge necessary.
     
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  4. NinjaPenguin76

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    So I'm a relatively new player and just thought I'd offer a perspective that, while some did do their best to consider when speculating the ins and outs of the implementation of natural Diamonds both in the mechanics as well as falling into the hands of a new players, hasn't been spoken on here by one of those players. There's a TL;DR for anyone who hates reading, though by itself isn't gonna offer you anything of much substance.

    I'd call myself a veteran when it comes to gacha style mobile games and understand all of the concerns and viewpoints already discussed here.
    Typically speaking, I usually have abysmal luck with draws in even games with very generous odds, so about 0.001 seconds after seeing that 0.5% draw rate I ceased expecting that to ever happen no matter how long I played because I'm a F2P player.
    Top that with the fact that you certainly do not earn theonite at as fast of a rate as you do in alot of other games (which is just to make players not dip out after a poor first few draws until they don't feel like losing their invested time by "rerolling") and it was clear that saving up for a 10+1 pull was gonna mean sticking with whatever you did have and hoping it wasn't so terrible you were progress blocked until then, I really had no expectations.

    Well as fate would have it, turns out this game among the countless I've delved into was the one that I was blessed, despite the unbelievable odds- and I got it from a premiere summon that was a reward for a low level story mission of all things.
    I was only acc level 5 or something really absurd, and for whatever degree I'd have been speechless, you can be assured I was even moreso to get it so early and so unexpectedly. I had already gathered that due to the nature of the game that evolution was not intended to be quite so simple to achieve despite having familiar mechanics, and as with all gacha style games some units are simply '"god tier" and some are simply garbo, so the joy I got from knowing that if I never got a lucky draw again I could at least find solace in that one was unrivaled. I got CC Filia, which from what I've read has yet to receive a particularly solid evaluation on this thread other than the same as my own speculation that since she has so many abilities with several hits, it seemed potentially powerful.

    As someone with alot of background in these games, I wont lie. I was expecting this to mean things would be pretty easy mode for a good long while since other games with this mechanic often work that way, which is why rerolls are so common. I played Brave Frontier years ago and despite being a vet who put sooooo much time and effort into getting the team I was proud of, I got progress blocked in the campaign because that game is the overlord of powercreep. Anybody who's played it knows this. It was INCREDIBLY infuriating to see my baby raised units who at one time were top tier just get utterly drowned out by teams of 5 of the same currently most broken unit from P2W. It was even more upsetting for a friend who literally abandoned the game at level 3, returned and collected a bunch of event rewards, and proceeded to draw 4 OP units that he was able to bring up to be stronger than my own team with a bunch of freebie evo and level materials in literal hours. I quit the game at that moment, I was disgusted.

    As all of you would already know, this game is not like that. I love this game for that reason. Did I practically s*** myself when I saw the node costs? Rofl without question. But I treasured that Filia (still do) so much because for once I was actually on the other end of the spectrum, as I've never been the player who got that kinda beginners luck in any form. At first I dumped everything into her because all of my other draws for a good while literally couldn't have been worse- I checked the tier list after a fair while of playing to discover all but about 2 where absolute bottom tier, with the other two being just 1 notch up. With the rate I was going, honestly if I didn't have that Filia I can't tell you I'd have been playing for a super long time if things kept up because I didn't want to spend literally 2 years getting the best of what I was given to their max and it just not being enough.

    Having her taught me alot though, truly. For one, I learned that as others have said, stats aren't everything. The SA's matter a great deal, but on the flip side SA's aren't everything either, there are a whole lot of factors in what makes a fighter for you or not. Some of my units I was genuinely surprised at their standing on the tier list because I thought they were really good since I had great success with them and even enjoyed playing them more than Filia by a great margin, like my Understudy Cerebella (LOL) and later Dead Heat Squiggly. I love some squiggly :3

    But, I also learned the value of a lower tier fighter in the resources too. After a point I wasn't able to get a lot of play time in because if Filia was sapped on energy then I couldn't do a whole lot. Coins were scarce in the numbers I needed for her (lol plus a diamond key with gold is 1 mil if I did get her upgraded, idek with rift coins) and I inevitably had to spend coins on others who's numbers were so incredibly small next to Filia it felt borderline disrespectful to her not to put that 30k into a node even if it was only gonna be a 2% increase and all of my skillpoints.
    When those fighters starting breaking into a sharper curve, getting all of their potential unlocked, and sporting a row of killer moves, my feelings changed.

    Then I got my first silver (Bloody Valentine Eliza) and I was finally understanding the curve of the game when she began creeping on my lvl 30 bronze at just level 13. Filia was still Queen Stat Stick, and I loved having her for it, but the feeling of fighting with a fleshed out fighter vs someone who barely has a 3rd move slot and a stunted combo juggle is so much more gratifying. I'm still thankful for the luck to have drawn her, and definitely look forward to when I can afford letting her finally shine the way she's supposed to. But no way I can bring myself to drop so much of my resources on her when I could get 3x or more the amount on Bad Ms Frosty instead, and give my arsenal all that much more firepower and versatility. As a result of having her, I learned alot about the game, the value of respective fighters beyond "shiny and big numbers", and ultimately didn't give up on a fantastic game that rewards time invested and skills refined by the player. Now if I could just get anything besides Nunsense Double....

    So all in all, I get you guys' side of things no doubt. In your position I'd be just as upset at the prospect of natural Diamonds walking all over my accomplishments. At the end of the day though, I believe the devs handled this quite well and in my personal experience it served as a positive catalyst for my playing experience. I hope maybe some of this offers anything of value to whoever bothers reading it.

    TL;DR- I got lucky early on with a natural Diamond and it kept me playing, taught me stuffs, and allowed me to appreciate a game that I otherwise potentially wouldn't have.
     
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  5. Ryouhi

    Ryouhi Well-Known Member

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    thank you for your perspective on things :)

    I'd suggest sticking with how you've been playing already. If you dont have the ressources to invest into your diamond, it's better spent getting a larger arsenal of "weaker" fighters instead, even just for having more play time, as you aren't gated by just one fighter's energy pool. The more fighters you have, the more you can play without worrying about energy.

    Aside from that, when and if you are going to invest into your diamond, i suggest going for the top tree first, to unlock her Combo and her Special Abilities and after that move slots. Attack and Defense aren't all that important to level up in the beginning, because at maximum they only give you a 50% bonus to Atk and HP each, with some crit and Defense sprinkled in between. So it's fine to just ride on her natural high base stats and you'll be fine.
     
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  6. NinjaPenguin76

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    LOL @ snip, that made me laugh haha. But yeah that's what I've been doing with pretty much every fighter ever since I discovered how straight up critical it is to their effectiveness. I remember playing a silver variant of parasol after I had been wrecking house with my upgraded bronze one of similar FS, and when I failed my longshot attempt miserably going "Alright. That was NOT how that was projected to turn out. WHY DOES SHE SUCK" rofl. When I realized the issue and then looked at Filia with 3 upgrades and one of them being an atk node I felt like a complete nub XD

    But recently I made the plunge to get her SA after realizing I never did, just the evade skill and a moveslot besides the atk. I yearn for getting past a block from a painwheel with hatred install up and claiming sweet victory rofl. Thanks for your response, I'm glad you took the time to read that monster. I'm better at review-style than synopsis...I had alot of english professors hounding me to switch majors in college :rolleyes:
     
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  7. BallotBoxer

    BallotBoxer Well-Known Member

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    The Natural Diamond polls on Twitter are interesting:

    BEST ATTACKER
    1. Love Crafted Squigly
    2. Freeze Frame Peacock
    3. Fly Trap Painwheel

    BEST DEFENDER
    1. Assassin's Greed Valentine
    2. Heavy Metal Big Band
    3. Love Crafted Squigly

    And conversely:

    WORST ATTACKER
    1. Stand Out Eliza
    2. Jawbreaker Double
    3. Tied: Furry Fury Ms. Fortune / Summer Salt Parasoul

    WORST DEFENDER
    1. Jawbreaker Double
    2. Summer Salt Parasoul
    3. Dark Might Beowulf

    So, is Love Crafted Squigly top tier and Jawbreaker Double hot garbage? Or are these just first impressions before people really get to know these variants?
     
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  8. FriendlyWolf

    FriendlyWolf Active Member

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    They are mostly pretty much first impressions. It's hard to really see how good freeze frame or stand out is when I haven't really fought any of them yet. With a little time (and luck) however, I'm sure opinions will change.
     
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  9. TonyPartridge30

    TonyPartridge30 Well-Known Member

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    My one and only natural Diamond thus far is Furry Fury, and she doesn't seem that strong compared to some of the other natty Diamonds. Maybe there is something to these twitter polls.
     
  10. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    I'm inclined to agree that these are probably not made with much actual experience with these characters. I've finally got my Heavy Metal Big Band mostly filled out and he's... okay. I don't have another Natural Diamond built to compare him with, and despite his SA, I'd still say he's mostly a defensive character compared to my other evolved Diamond options. It's just a lot of work on offense to keep having to taunt to actually benefit from his damage boost. It's not undoable, but it's a nuisance rather than a natural synergy.

    I guess he might be good on defense, but it's hard to tell really? I can't recall meeting one in battle, which either means they're not very prevalent yet, or not good enough to have made an impression.

    Love Crafted is definitely one of the best though: She has some great offensive options it looks like, and she's someone I have to plan around when I'm fighting her too. Same with Assassin's Greed.

    Stand Out is actually one of the characters that I'm most looking forward to getting. I like the idea of suppressing enemies getting buffs, particularly on offense, where being aggressive can also mean that I'll be making the ability proc more often. Being only able to selectively steal life back seems less useful, but I'm an Eliza fan, so I'm not likely to complain.
     
  11. infine

    infine Active Member

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    Eeeh. Love Crafted seems like an inferior Bio. Both essentially do heavy bleed, but Bio also heals from it and ignores buffs. As for meter lock, it's Squigly. Why would you need MOAR meter control?

    AG I have and she's meh on offense. It's pretty hard to force AI to BB you without getting hurt (especially considering it's Val, and sedative is part of your general combo), and her bleeds are too short.

    I'd say the only 3 really good natural diamonds are Cirno (because Peacock with meter control), Fluttershy (because non-debuff percentage damage Bio style) and Double (because raw damage). Well, maybe Flytrap.
     
  12. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    Have you fought Love Crafted? Because that blockbuster block is very effective on defense. Not being able to use blockbusters while near her really means having to figure out ways to play around it, and can really limit the ability to do some of the better combos. With Parasite Weave, I can handle Bio the same way I do everyone else: Just kick her to death and make her bleed. With Love Crafted I can't do that as easily

    I imagine it's also useful on offense for someone like me who's terminally clumsy, since it limits the ability for enemies to effectively retaliate.

    As a defense it can be worked around. I prefer just shooting her to death, same as Bio. But any of the defensive characters can be worked around if you have the right counter and their value at the moment is being yet another annoyance you have to plan around in Rift Battles.
     
  13. infine

    infine Active Member

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    Yup. Bio is still more annoying, maybe because I haven't seen really strong lovecrafts yet.

    Also I don't really like defensive fighters since they aren't made to be played.
     
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  14. cappatacus

    cappatacus Well-Known Member

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    Furry Fury has a lot of potential. I feel like she's rated low just because of her Head Games mechanics. Also, I'm surprised Heavy Handed isn't higher up. Diamond stats + 5x Enrage + DAF. Oof.
     
    #154 cappatacus, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  15. Scorialimit

    Scorialimit Member

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    Remember that when these polls were voted on, they're done in a FPTP style, meaning only one vote. While Summer Salt isn't the strongest attacker, there's exactly a 0% chance she's bottom 3 (FFury isn't either, but people don't know Hit Paws combos or how to use headless, so until/unless people get more confident with Transition combos or learn Hit Paws combos, she might be stuck low)

    Jawbreaker too. She's pretty meh on offense yeah, but she's made with team synergy in mind. You can run a high level tuant on her, or run her with someone like Sketchy or Surgeon and get incredible damage fast. One strat I might use for PF farming if I get her is pair her with Oh Mai and put a fodder in front for a quick 2x enrage.

    Not really going into defense cause defenders are kinda hard to rate unless they're obviously difficult to fight against, but point is the bottom 3 results pretty much have very little reliability, with Stand Out's low offense being the only one I can agree on.
     
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  16. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    That's fair. I think I'm more anti-bio at this point because I have a couple strategies that work against her, and I have fewer right now against Lovecraft. Though certainly just pummeling Lovecraft can still gets the job done sometimes, which is harder to do with Bio.
     
  17. BallotBoxer

    BallotBoxer Well-Known Member

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    Natural Diamond first wave
    1. Dark Might Beowulf
    2. Heavy Metal Big Band
    3. Heavy Handed Cerebella
    4. Jawbreaker Double
    5. Stand Out Eliza
    6. Class Cutter Filia
    7. Furry Fury Ms. Fortune
    8. Fly Trap Painwheel
    9. Summer Salt Parasoul
    10. Freeze Frame Peacock
    11. Overclocked Robo-Fortune
    12. Love Crafted Squigly
    13. Assassin's Greed Valentine
    Natural Diamond second wave
    1. Snake Bite Beowulf
    2. Dream Band Big Band
    3. Star-Spangled Cerebella
    4. Heart of Darkness Double
    5. Mummy Dearest Eliza
    6. Djinn Fizz Filia
    7. Wind Stalker Ms. Fortune
    8. Neuromancer Painwheel
    9. Risky Ginger Parasoul
    10. Dream Catcher Peacock
    11. ??? Robo-Fortune
    12. Plot Twisted Squigly
    13. Très Chic Valentine
    Roll up! Roll up! Place yer bets! We are one diamond reveal away from a full set for the second wave. Any guesses for Robo-Fortune? I want #14 RX-78-2 Gundam. It might be Air as Robo only has one in that element (so #6 Vectorman?).

    It would be interesting if they redid that diamond poll they took in January. With all the crazy SAs on display for the new class, I'm not sure Love Crafted Squigly can keep that best attacker and third best defender crown.
     
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  18. fanghoul

    fanghoul Well-Known Member

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    My money would be on Robo-Fortune being... some kind of reference to nerdy or popular media :eek:

    You know, I'd already put Summer Salt ahead of Love Crafted. Admittedly, I'm a die hard Parasoul main, but given the current state of Rifts I put a higher premium on removing debuffs and having precision than heavy bleed.

    Of the new gen of Diamonds, I think the only real competition for best attacker might be Djinn Frizz and Neuromancer. Risky Ginger would also be up there, but requires a playstyle that I don't think is the norm.
     
  19. TonyPartridge30

    TonyPartridge30 Well-Known Member

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    With all these new diamonds, I really wish that Diamond duplicates were impossible, lest some people never complete their collections or get that one diamond they really want.
     
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  20. buggy.

    buggy. Member

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    Believe it's reasonable to get duplicates from any relics other than the diamond relics. After months/weeks of grinding for one diamond relic, only to get something you already have is discouraging and feels unwelcomed.

    Getting duplicates from premier or other relics seems fine though.
     

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