• [2018/06/22]
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The Doctor Will See You Now...

Which intimidates you more?

  • Surgeon General

    Votes: 30 34.5%
  • Assassin's Greed

    Votes: 57 65.5%

  • Total voters
    87

theLoneskull

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Joined
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Messages
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Introducing Valentine:
Valentine's role can fluctuate between a healer and a disabler. She has a respectable health pool, but doesn't do all that much damage, instead relying on several combat effects to keep her teammates and herself healthy while also inflicting numerous harmful ones on the opponent. Her character ability can act as a way to keep yourself healthy if you mess up and get hit. She can achieve her maximum potential when a player is able to utilize all the tricks she has up her short sleeve (literally). Her SAs utilize regen effects to keep herself and her teammates alive while also using an arsenal of negative effects to debilitate her enemies and control the pace of the battle.

Character Ability: Siphon

- More of the damage Valentine receives is inflicted as non-permanent scratch damage. 75% of the damage Valentine deals is regained as health, but only up to her current scratch damage threshold.

1. Surgeon General
Rarity: Gold
Element: Wind
Atk (lvl 60): 10,157

HP (lvl 60): 54.9k
FS (lvl 60): 19.7k
SA: Stimpak
- While Valentine is alive, she gains a permanent enrage every 30 seconds
- While Valentine is alive, teammates gain immunity and heavy regen for 15 seconds every 30 seconds


Though usurped by Tres Chic for highest attack amongst Valentines, SG's attack is still better than the rest. On offense, she can serve a dual roll as support or as a "snowball-effect" attacker. As offensive support, she provides heavy regen and immunity, both of which are good buffs to have; heavy regen to keep your fighter healthy and immunity to protect you from defensive debuffs. If this fails and SG has to enter the fight, she's not someone to take lightly. 10.1k atk is really good for a Valentine and she gains perma enrage every 30 seconds. She does have a slow start off because she gets her enrages at somewhat of a slow rate, but after maybe 90 seconds (3 stacks on enrage), she becomes really difficult to slow down. Only fighters that punish you for dealing high damage such as Dread Locks or Criminal Mind could slow her down. Armor is a thing, but she deals a lot of damage even through armor (unless its more than 2 stacks). Enrage is a tangible debuff that can be prevented, but with SG, the ideal situation is to let her sit back and build enrage stacks, so this shouldn't be a huge issue. For me, the deal breaker that puts SG at the top is the ability to play as support and as an attacker who is insanely difficult to stop once she has snowballed to a point of no return.

2. Tres Chic
Rarity: Diamond
Element: Dark
Atk (lvl 60): 11,847
HP (lvl 60): 64k
FS (lvl 60): 23k
SA; Two-Faced
- While on her own side of the stage, Valentine gains 1 stack of barrier, thorns or armor every 3 seconds. These buffs are removed when knocked down
- While on the opponent's side of the stage, critical hits inflict bleed, death mark or armor break for 10 seconds

With more or less the same attack as Risky Ginger, a Parasoul, Tres Chic has the highest attack out of all Valentines, which already makes things good for her. She can do some pretty decent damage already, but her SA2 furthers her damage by inflicting armor break and death mark, with bleed for some kick. The consistent armor break in particular is great since a lot of top defenders have some form of armor, which is a direct damage reduction. Being able to render it less of an issue is huge. Now, you're probably thinking that the whole "be on the opponent side" thing would hurt her seeing as if you end up back on your side you're not inflicting those debuffs. With Valentine, it's hard to say you'll be on your side long enough for it to really matter, especially when you have the Countervenoms. They do tons of burst damage and send opponents flying, keeping them on their side of the map (at the very least you should have at least 1 CV equipped). Though she may be lower than SG, the consistent armor break and death mark combined with her having the highest attack of all the Valentines puts her above the rest of the crowd.
*She does have one thing going for her that SG doesn't: not having to wait for her damage boosts. However, I feel this isn't quite enough of an advantage to put her above SG.


3. Silent Kill
Rarity: Gold
Element: Water
Atk (lvl 60): 8,852
Hp (lvl 60): 61k
FS (lvl 60): 19.4k
SA: Foggy Memory
- 25% chance on hit to remove all debuffs from self
- 25% chance on hit to remove all buffs from opponent

There was once a time when SK was actually the best Valentine. Back when there were only 2 golds for each character. She may not be the best anymore, but she is no less dangerous. Her self debuff removal is nice, but she's mainly prized for being one of the best buff removers in the game, which is crucial for taking out defenders such as Heavy Metal, M&F, Dream Band and more. Only permanent buffs can't be removed, but they're permanent, so that's to be expected. In a way, she is sort of a worse Doublicious since she outright removes the buffs/debuffs whereas Doublicious steals them/transfers them. But also, Doublicious doesn't remove buffs, where SK does. This combined with SK's much higher survivability differentiates her enough.
Her less than impressive attack is her only real drawback, but remember, Countervenoms do a lot of burst damage to compensate and she has moves to inflict bleed such as Laryngectomy, Checkmate Incision and Dead Cross to further compensate. These 3 moves work great because they inflict bleeds and inflict several hits. She's also one of two Valentines who prefers to have EKG Flatliner, as it inflicts numerous hits and benefits from bleeds inflicted by her other moves. Also for her attack stat, investing a lot into atk % and piercing mitigates the issue. She's not the best, but she's a great addition to anyone's collection.


4. Oh Mai
Rarity: Silver
Element: Fire
Atk (lvl 60): 8,717
Hp (lvl 60): 47k
FS (lvl 60): 16.9k
SA: Deadly Fury
- Gain 2 stacks of enrage for 20 seconds and 5 stacks of precision after defeating an opponent
- When any teammates is defeated, all remaining teammates gain 2 stacks of enrage for 15 seconds

The most attack focused out of all the Valentines. She has more or less the same attack stat as Silent Kill, but with added enrages and precision. The precision stacks do force you to play sort of smart since smaller hits will waste them. One way to use them is the charge>triple CVs and then maybe another charge or something. Landing all 3 Countervenoms is crucial because it lets her shred through anything without heavy stacks of armor, getting the most use out of the precision and enrage combo. Even when armor is factored in, she'll do a pretty hefty amount of damage. Oh Mai is like Buzzkill, in that she becomes very dangerous when the enrages are allowed to build up and snowball to make her a powerhouse. For anyone that wants just that extra bit of punch, let someone with low hp like a low level fighter die immediately. She'll get 2 stacks of enrage which will build up and let her do devastating damage, though at the cost of a teammates which could have been used as fodder for a BB3. She's not as amazing in higher level play, though still has more use offensively than the rest because of the precision/enrage combo.
(Diamond Oh Mais are just there to flex on us, let's be honest lol)


5. Pyro-Technique
Rarity: Gold
Element: Fire
Atk (lvl 60): 8,852
Hp (lvl 60): 61k
FS (lvl 60): 19.4k
SA: Soul Burn
- Inflict 2 stacks of wither for 10 seconds when hitting an opponent with a charge attack
- Gain enrage for 10 seconds when hitting an opponent with a fully depleted blockbuster

When I first heard the name of Pyro's SA, I expected bleed effects because the fire element and bleed somewhat seem to correspond. Instead, we got wither. Its not all bad given than wither is among the strongest negative effects in the game. With this Valentine, you will never have to fear a BB3 and will rarely ever face BBs to begin with. With that being said, damage is once again a concern. However, unlike the previously mentioned Valentines, it legitimately is something of an issue. There are very few moments where the opponent's is completely empty long enough for her to get her chance at enrage. What's more, supposedly she got a shadow nerf that makes it so blocked hits no longer count towards the SA2. Bleed effects can still work (like with SK), but they're not as effective because she's unable to remove damage reducing effects such as armor or damage mitigating effects such as regens, slowing her progress down. Combining all of this means she's likely going to time out a lot. Meter control keeps her above the rest of the crowd, but her inability to deal with damage reduction/healing of any kind keeps her from a higher spot.

6. Assassin's Greed
Rarity: Diamond
Element: Light
Atk (lvl 60): 8,794
Hp (lvl 60): 78.2k
FS (lvl 60): 22.3k
SA: Bled Dry
- When the opponent uses a blockbuster against Valentine, they lose 25% of their remaining health and suffer from heavy bleed for 5 seconds
- Gain 5% health per second while nearby an opponent suffering bleed

As a defender, Assassin's Greed is incredibly trick to take on. But this is offense, not defense, and here she struggles a lot. Her damage is only marginally higher than SK's and her SA is almost useless for offensive purposes. Odds are, because of Countervenom: Sedative (if you have it equipped), you'll have reduced the meter enough that the opponent may not have a BB. What's more, safely baiting your opponent into using their BB is a difficult task. Applying bleeds yourself with moves such as Larygnectomy, Dead Cross and Checkmate Incision is an option (much safer), but without this, she really doesn't do much offensively. She is the other Valentine who prefers EKG, as it deals bonus damage while the opponent is suffering bleed, but even this doesn't quite save her. I don't have much else to say about her offensively so let's move on.

7. Killjoy
Rarity: Silver
Element: Light
Atk (lvl 60): 7,584
Hp (lvl 60): 52.2k
FS (lvl 60): 16.6k
SA: Pride and Joy
- Teammates gain permanent regen when first dropping below 50% health while at an elemental advantage
- Once per match, resurrect all defeated teammates with 25% health

Right off the bat this one seems interesting. Her palette is one actually not from the original game. Its a mobile exclusive one (like Inner Pieces'). Offensively, there's not much to see here. SA1 is pretty bad and her attack stat isn't too great. SA2 is somewhat useful as a way to save your match if your other fighters have been killed and you have Killjoy in the back. Just make sure she's not killed by a precision hit and that hex or inverse polarity isn't active when she dies. Other than that though, she's not great for offense.
She's mainly prized for defense, but that's for another time. So let's move on,


8. Graveyard Shift
Rarity: Silver
Element: Dark
Atk (lvl 60): 6,471
Hp (lvl 60): 57.5k
FS (lvl 60): 16.4k
SA: Forensics
- Valentine and all teammates gain heavy regen for 15 seconds when any fighter is defeated
- 15% chance on hit to inflict curse and heal block for 10 seconds while benefitting from regen

Her rework has made her more useful for offense. Curse is great and heal block, though more situational, can be useful. Her regen can be obtained by just bringing a weak silver to die, so she can have some use as offensive support (like SG, but much worse). Once again, main issue here is that her attack is abysmal (even CV damage isn't going to save her). Its the 2nd lowest in the game, with only Scared Stiff having worse attack. As powerful as curse is, another major drawback is she only inflicts it while benefitting from regen. This more or less forces you to equip her taunt or you're only going to be able to do it once. I suppose she works well in the silver bracket, but not in anything higher.

9. Last Hope
Rarity: Gold
Element: Light
Atk (lvl 60): 7,527
HP (lvl 60): 67k
FS (lvl 60): 19.1k
SA: Urgent Care
- Once per match while Valentine is alive, teammates gain heavy regen for 10 seconds when dropping below 25% health

- Once per match when defeated, resurrect with 50% health

There was once a time when Last Hope could've been considered the 2nd strongest Valentine variant. Though that was back when each character only had 2 gold variants. For a while after that, she wasn't doing well for herself. But that's for another time. On offense, she's awful because her attack is abysmal and she has no real way of increasing her attack (even the CV burst damage can only do so much). I can't really add much else without it going in a different direction, so I'll wrap up by saying that she's abysmal for offense, but actually super solid for defense.


10. Icy Hot
Rarity: Bronze
Element: Water

Atk (lvl 60): 8,180
Hp (lvl 60): 44.3k
FS (lvl 60): 15.9k
SA: First Responder
- All teammates tag in with regen for 15 seconds
- On tag in, all teammates gain 15% meter for all blockbusters

Another one that people seem to have a thing for overrating. She used to be decent compared to the other Valentines. But after most got buffs/reworks and her not seeing any change, she's fallen behind hard. Not bad, but not great attack combined with meh hp and a not too great SA makes her pretty bad. In lower levels of the game, I suppose she'd be great, but even in the mid-game she's not much good for anything other than a cheap way to get a maxed out Trauma Center Valentine.

11. Scrub

Rarity: Bronze
Element: Wind
Atk (lvl 60): 6,490
Hp (lvl 60): 44.8k
FS (lvl 60): 14.2k
SA: Outpatient
- Instantly recover 25% health when tagging out
- Teammates in reserve regenerate scratch damage and gain blockbuster meter 100% faster


There isn't much to say about Scrub. She's better after the rework, but is still god awful. Her SA provides no offensive utility and her attack is pathetic. Not much else to say seeing as its generally accepted that she's the worst by quite a bit.
 
Last edited:
I tried something different. I used the color of Valentine's hat for the name and the color of the cross on said hat for the stats and how I feel about the variant (i.e. dark green for Surgeon's name and dark red for everything else). What do you think about it?

I also included stats to boost through moves and whatnot. Hope it helps :)

(FInal note: I meant to release this yesterday but didn't. Whoops)
 
You forgot to mention that Assassin's Greed can also be soft countered by literally any Val that is running ICU(any heavy bleed inflicted by the SA1 will get immediately converted to heavy regeneration by ICU), although everything you mentioned still can't be trigger happy with blockbusters thanks to the 25% health loss inflicted by her SA1.
 
I think one thing I might mention about Last Hope that makes her slightly stronger is that if she can get Last Stand she's extra annoying, because it prevents her from dropping into her revive, and you can end up having to wait out Last Stand's timer twice then. It's nothing too exceptional, but when the fight timer's running out it's a pain. This trait is probably more valuable for Big Top Cerebella though.
 
You forgot to mention that Assassin's Greed can also be soft countered by literally any Val that is running ICU(any heavy bleed inflicted by the SA1 will get immediately converted to heavy regeneration by ICU), although everything you mentioned still can't be trigger happy with blockbusters thanks to the 25% health loss inflicted by her SA1.

Oh yea. I forgot about. Whoops again
 
I think one thing I might mention about Last Hope that makes her slightly stronger is that if she can get Last Stand she's extra annoying, because it prevents her from dropping into her revive, and you can end up having to wait out Last Stand's timer twice then. It's nothing too exceptional, but when the fight timer's running out it's a pain. This trait is probably more valuable for Big Top Cerebella though.

Once again, I forgot about that. I've faced Last Hope with a final stand and my god, it was awful. Too bad the second SA is just a ripoff of Big Top's SA
 
I once faced a team of three Valentines in a rift node. Graveyard Shift, Icy Hot, and I believe SG but possibly Scrub, I'm not sure. The first two kept me so preoccupied that I didn't notice. They spammed tag outs and were constantly getting regen, and some had ICU which kept me from countering with bleed. Another one was equipped with Trauma Center, so even if I had managed to get their health down, they would've tagged out before I could finish them off. Scrub may not be OP, but honestly, if I was facing her in that node and she gained constant regen as well as 25% health...yikes.

You mentioned that she's placed lower because of her SA only really healing herself, but honestly, I don't see that as an issue. Sure, it'd be amazing if all teammates gained the 25%hp, but that almost seems unbalanced, and a good defender doesn't need to keep the rest of their teammates alive - just themselves. If Valentine is kept alive, she can easily revive a teammate and keep them going with TC. Not to mention, 25% HP on any high streak modifier is substantial.

Also, I'm skeptical of Pyro Technique's placement. Is her damage really that good? I don't have her (yet) and I wonder if she holds up in high streaks.
 
I once faced a team of three Valentines in a rift node. Graveyard Shift, Icy Hot, and I believe SG but possibly Scrub, I'm not sure. The first two kept me so preoccupied that I didn't notice. They spammed tag outs and were constantly getting regen, and some had ICU which kept me from countering with bleed. Another one was equipped with Trauma Center, so even if I had managed to get their health down, they would've tagged out before I could finish them off. Scrub may not be OP, but honestly, if I was facing her in that node and she gained constant regen as well as 25% health...yikes.

You mentioned that she's placed lower because of her SA only really healing herself, but honestly, I don't see that as an issue. Sure, it'd be amazing if all teammates gained the 25%hp, but that almost seems unbalanced, and a good defender doesn't need to keep the rest of their teammates alive - just themselves. If Valentine is kept alive, she can easily revive a teammate and keep them going with TC. Not to mention, 25% HP on any high streak modifier is substantial.

Also, I'm skeptical of Pyro Technique's placement. Is her damage really that good? I don't have her (yet) and I wonder if she holds up in high streaks.

I've faced plenty of Graveyard, Icy Hots, and Scrubs. From experience, they never hold up well. Though that was in PFs and not Rift Battles. I'm not sure about those because I've only ever faced an Icy Hot once in a Rift Battle. I suppose there's potential there because of the modifiers and what not. But these lists don't really look at Rift Battles, but rather performance in pfs. Which these 3 are lacking in.

The same could be said for most Valentine variants. Their damage isn't that good and they don't hold up well in high streaks. Except for Assassin, Surgeon, and Oh Mai if she's allowed to snowball. Pyro might hold up a little better, but there isn't a huge difference.
 
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As an accidental owner of AG I've got some remarks.

First, making use of SA1 on offense is hard. Because your typical combo ends with enemy meter drained to keep their BB3 at bay. So enemy can't do BBs because they don't have meter. Even if you give them charged BBs, safely baiting BBs is hard (cough diamonds are forever cough).

Second, how do I ded cross? Can't seem to combo into it. It hits Big Band after forbidden procedure but that's it.
 
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You can hit anyone with Dead Cross after using a Countervenom if you time it right, though Checkmate Incision might be a better option if it's ready.

Random observation as another Assassin's Greed owner, her SA1 does appear to be able to kill people if they're at 1hp. Not super useful, but better than if it didn't.
 
Personally i heavily disagree with Assassin's being number 1.
Sure she is strong as a defender, but if you try to use her offensively past like streak 25-30 she's starts falling off hard.
Her Base Attack is lower than that of Diamond Surgeon, who also gets permanent enrages every 30 seconds.

It is also much too risky to try and bait enemy BBs to take advantage of her SA as a player, aside from applying bleeds yourself. And bleeds you will apply, because her damage is absymal for a natural diamond with no offensive abilities to fall back on. Without bleed her damage is just not enough to properly use her if the enemy team is properly equipped.

Even with her high HP-stat and good SA for defending, i'd say SG is still better due to the support she gives her other teammates, while getting stronger in the back herself.

---

Also, so far my Assassins Greed hasn't been much of a help on my defense teams or rift nodes, so not sure how hard she really is to fight if you have some type of counter (Bloodbath, ICU Vals, etc)
 
Personally i heavily disagree with Assassin's being number 1.
Sure she is strong as a defender, but if you try to use her offensively past like streak 25-30 she's starts falling off hard.
Her Base Attack is lower than that of Diamond Surgeon, who also gets permanent enrages every 30 seconds.

It is also much too risky to try and bait enemy BBs to take advantage of her SA as a player, aside from applying bleeds yourself. And bleeds you will apply, because her damage is absymal for a natural diamond with no offensive abilities to fall back on. Without bleed her damage is just not enough to properly use her if the enemy team is properly equipped.

Even with her high HP-stat and good SA for defending, i'd say SG is still better due to the support she gives her other teammates, while getting stronger in the back herself.

---

Also, so far my Assassins Greed hasn't been much of a help on my defense teams or rift nodes, so not sure how hard she really is to fight if you have some type of counter (Bloodbath, ICU Vals, etc)

She really falls off? Dang. I overestimated her.
I've tried baiting blockbusters with my SK before so I can agree with it being hard. Don't ask why I did. I just did
Well I guess Surgeon's still at the top then. Gotta fix that
 
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She really falls off? Dang. I overestimated her.
I've tried baiting blockbusters with my SK before so I can agree with it being hard. Don't ask why I did. I just did
Well I guess Surgeon's still at the top then. Gotta fix that
at least in my experience. Mine is level 45 right now and just now breaks 6k Atk (which is kind of bad for a diamond, doubly so for anatural).
Past higher streaks i can at best rely on the heavy bleed from Laryngectomy and keeping their BB3 at bay with CV.
For example fought a team at streak 29 earlier with bum Greed as my "carry", i was down at like 40 seconds left when i finally beat the last fighter.

Compare that to my SG which is maybe 7 or 8 levels above AG, and she tears through those same enemies so much quicker. And even against tougher enemies you keep getting more and more enrages.

Max AG Atk is ~ 8k
Max SG Atk is ~ 10k

not such a big difference right? but if you're fighting something real tough and get down to 1 minute left you suddenly have 20k Atk instead while AG still relies mostly on her bleed to deal damage (which lets enemies tag out and recover, wasting even more time)

--

So yeah, overall, in terms of offense AG is really disappointing for a Nat Diamond. As for defense, mine hasn't stopeed many players yet and i have only fought them myself a handful of time, with no problems so far, so not sure how she is on that.
 
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Second, how do I ded cross? Can't seem to combo into it. It hits Big Band after forbidden procedure but that's it.
Like fan said, you can time it after Countervenoms, although I feel like this doesn't work with every character. You can also time it after Forbidden Procedure, or certain characters (namely Big Band, I believe Beowulf and Eliza as well) can be hit with it after launching. Also, this move is great for interrupting Squigly or any charge attack.

Although, if you're using that for the bleed, then her Burst is also a good option. Mine's at lvl 5, and it already guarantees 7 seconds of bleed on hit. Doesn't combo with much besides a jab->launcher, though.
 
I tried something different. I used the color of Valentine's hat for the name and the color of the cross on said hat for the stats and how I feel about the variant (i.e. dark green for Surgeon's name and dark red for everything else). What do you think about it?
I'd probably set the main text to white to improve readability.

I find Val hard to gauge, on one hand, yeah SG is stupid strong, but on offense I've had way better luck with Oh Mai being actually able to finish off my opponents.

I have no problem giving Oh Mai an offensive build. But I feel obligated to build SG as pure tankiness for defense, which really gives very little room to work offensively.

Maybe someone could recommend some builds for different variants?
 
I'd probably set the main text to white to improve readability.

I find Val hard to gauge, on one hand, yeah SG is stupid strong, but on offense I've had way better luck with Oh Mai being actually able to finish off my opponents.

I have no problem giving Oh Mai an offensive build. But I feel obligated to build SG as pure tankiness for defense, which really gives very little room to work offensively.

Maybe someone could recommend some builds for different variants?

Uh, for SG you could do triple CV, Forbidden, and DoA. Stats, I'd say try 40% atk, 35% def, 50% hp, and 30% meter gain.
I could maybe give more builds depending on which Val you're interested in
 
@Mataprietos You're right she's not here!

In my opinion, she would sit just above Oh Mai. She's great both in defense and offense (especially rocks defense in Fukua prize fight), she has a nice fail safe (like Vals are meant to have), and those debuffs can really hurt once they stack. Equip her with a high crit rate and she can mop the floor with a lot of opponents. Ofc, she does have some counters to be aware of such as bleed/debuff converters and MA painwheels. Still, I'd say she deserves a high spot for her versatility and good stats.
 
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