• [2018/06/22]
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You guys went a bit too far with Death Wish umbrella

Nerima

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This new Umbrella variant really bumps me so I felt like I want to discuss it with the community

First of all - lets face it. Even if this variant had simple and mediocre abilities she still would be very desirible just because of her appearance and special effects - it's one of kind. Even tho she's not the only one skullheart variant, for example, Graveyard Shift has skullheart skin too, but for whatever reason she was not blessed with floating skull arond her

But she was not just granded with good ability - her SA seems like you added too much of features in one variant.

Let's take a look:
dsfg.PNG

SA1: She frickin inficts hex simply after 7 hits - from any side, and TRANSFERS 3 buffs.
This would be an overpowered just by itself, as hex is a game braking debuff and inflicting it THAT easy is a gamechanging ability.
The only competitor in this case is Red Velvet as she inflict hex when entering sekmet - but it's not comparable by any means, as it takes much to learn how to consistantly use Eliza with regular sekmet mode swaps. And this Eliza variant lives in meta just thanks to this ability alone, her SA2 is practically useless and acts as a placeholder and her stats are pretty low. But Death Wish does the same thing just by hitting the opponent (or even being hit) and transfers debuffs additionaly, AND THAT JUST THE FIRST PART OF HE SA

SA2: Basically, we have Kill Joy (meta defender) ability + Last Hope (meta defender) ability combined together with no downsides whatsoever. Like literally, you combined 2 other characters main abilities into one PART of SA2 ability. And if this wasn't enought, she gains miasma for whatever reason (we have variants who exist entirily on their ability to gain miasma alone, as it's practically one of the best buffs in the whole game).

I feel like this is too much of a power bumped into just 1 character.

I mean, she could just inflict hex on hit landed on opponent (without the ability to inflict it when being hit) in her SA1, and tranfer buffs on SA2 - and she still would be top tire attacker despite low ATK stat (even tho it's not THAT low... We have many primary diamond attackers with even lower ATK). Or she could ressurect by SA1 and revive by SA2 - and again, be top tier defender with pretty much no alternatives on Dark Week rift.

But for whatever reason she does everything at once. I have one analogy in mind - Phantom Threads. She's, again, doing a lot of things at the same time:
Getting blessings for second chance, removes buffs, stacks enrages, and additionaly heals herself (even tho any fukua heals herself just by her kit).
BUT! She naturally a gold - so her stats are lower, she has both less ATK and less HP than this Umrella. And aditionally - she is a great attacker, but she's completely useless on defence.

But Death Wish is gonna be a big pain in the butt on defence - not only because of her SA2 ability, but also because she inflicts hex and steals buffs not only when landing hits, but also when being hit. So basically if you dont want to spend entire match under hex without buffs - you have to keep low hit count. But like this wasnt enough, she an extremely valuable attacker - hex is and essential and sky rockets any character into top tier whatever other stast are.

Something needs to be done in my opinion, why do you guys think?
 
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I agree, she's a bit much.
She inflicts hex with a simple juggle combo, and when death wish dies, she revives herself-her team AND gains miasma.
I feel as if its an unfair fight on pvp, too.
Please devs change her SAs a bit
 
This new Umbrella variant really bumps me so I felt like I want to discuss it with the community

First of all - lets face it. Even if this variant had simple and mediocre abilities she still would be very desirible just because of her appearance and special effects - it's one of kind. Even tho she's not the only one skullheart variant, for example, Graveyard Shift has skullheart skin too, but for whatever reason she was not blessed with floating skull arond her

But she was not just granded with good ability - her SA seems like you added too much of features in one variant.

Let's take a look:
View attachment 17763

SA1: She frickin inficts hex simply after 7 hits - from any side, and TRANSFERS 3 buffs.
This would be an overpowered just by itself, as hex is a game braking debuff and inflicting it THAT easy is a gamechanging ability.
The only competitor in this case is Red Velvet as she inflict hex when entering sekmet - but it's not comparable by any means, as it takes much to learn how to consistantly use Eliza with regular sekmet mode swaps. And this Eliza variant lives in meta just thanks to this ability alone, her SA2 is practically useless and acts as a placeholder and her stats are pretty low. But Death Wish does the same thing just by hitting the opponent (or even being hit) and transfers debuffs additionaly, AND THAT JUST THE FIRST PART OF HE SA

SA2: Basically, we have Kill Joy (meta defender) ability + Last Hope (meta defender) ability combined together with no downsides whatsoever. Like literally, you combined 2 other characters main abilities into one PART of SA2 ability. And if this wasn't enought, she gains miasma for whatever reason (we have variants who exist entirily on their ability to gain miasma alone, as it's practically one of the best buffs in the whole game).

I feel like this is too much of a power bumped into just 1 character.

I mean, she could just inflict hex on hit landed on opponent (without the ability to inflict it when being hit) in her SA1, and tranfer buffs on SA2 - and she still would be top tire attacker despite low ATK stat (even tho it's not THAT low... We have many primary diamond attackers with even lower ATK). Or she could ressurect by SA1 and revive by SA2 - and again, be top tier defender with pretty much no alternatives on Dark Week rift.

But for whatever reason she does everything at once. I have one analogy in mind - Phantom Threads. She's, again, doing a lot of things at the same time:
Getting blessings for second chance, removes buffs, stacks enrages, and additionaly heals herself (even tho any fukua heals herself just by her kit).
BUT! She naturally a gold - so her stats are lower, she has both less ATK and less HP than this Umrella. And aditionally - she is a great attacker, but she's completely useless on defence.

But Death Wish is gonna be a big pain in the butt on defence - not only because of her SA2 ability, but also because she inflicts hex and steals buffs not only when landing hits, but also when being hit. So basically if you dont want to spend entire match under hex without buffs - you have to keep low hit count. But like this wasnt enough, she an extremely valuable attacker - hex is and essential and sky rockets any character into top tier whatever other stast are.

Something needs to be done in my opinion, why do you guys think?
Umbrella needed a strong variant like this. Community opinion surrounding her before Death Wish came out was mostly disappointment or negativity due to most of her variants being very niche, having no utility, or being worse versions of existing variants. Also I don't think Death Wish would have sold half as well if all of the effort to put extra cosmetic details onto her was just for a variant that looked cool but was only as good as the other Umbrellas.
 
Umbrella needed a strong variant like this. Community opinion surrounding her before Death Wish came out was mostly disappointment or negativity due to most of her variants being very niche, having no utility, or being worse versions of existing variants. Also I don't think Death Wish would have sold half as well if all of the effort to put extra cosmetic details onto her was just for a variant that looked cool but was only as good as the other Umbrellas.
Yes, other ubrella variants were wack, only one who've got any kind of somewhat wide usage is puddle pirate. In fact, I didn't even bother to invest in any umbrella variant yet.

But! Making an obviously overpowered variant just because all the previous variants ended up being mediocre is not really a helthy strategy (better off rework previous variants). As well as your point does not justify the existance of such variant by any means. Again, if she had just one of her SA spread between two she already would be one of the best variants in game and would be very desirable by everyone. And also she would have a role - become either one of the best attackers (hex + buff tranfer is HUGE) or one of the best defenders.
But now she's everywhere - it's like 5 top notch variants stuffed in one - she sticks out a bit too much among overall game balance.
 
She seems like a story mode final boss more than a character people should be able to have.
Edit: if she only had 4 of the 5 abilities (buff transfer, hex, resurrect, revive, miasma) she would be a top 5 fighter, but all of them is overkill. Why not remove 1 and give it to a weaker variant if compensating was the goal.
 
Is she the best character in the game RN?
 
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I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS... like the SA wasn't enough, only she has the skull floating around her, she's... too much... other fighters whose SA are wack and are begging for attention could use a little SA adjustment, but it seemed they gave ALL their best on death wish alone making her a big deal... Like, her SA is everywhere, its not character-specific, to further emphasize let's look at these guys:


Model Leader - her SA is specifically autoblock/ and assisting teammates with armor gain and debuff clearing, it's a pain but at least when fighting her on defense you will know how prepared you'll be and use a character that counters her SA.

Splitting Image - Another annoying fukua variant whose SA is very definitive to gain permanent immunity and constantly regenerate health only when her health is lower than her opponents... I can keep going on but my point is death wish is waaaaay too overpowered, complicated, and... sad.

I have lots of gold variants i haven't touched their skilltree because their SA are useless and not worth investing keys and coins when i wont use them, rather I evolve some bronze fighters to gold/diamond because their SA is wonderful... pls focus on those weaker ones...
 
Death Wish should be the benchmark for dias :v

On a serious note though, it's best to look at a variant in addition to the character's kit too. SAs are only one part of the overall picture. Death Wish has lots of things going for her, yes, and that's because Umbrella's kit on her own doesn't leave much to be desired imo.

Her strength are regeneration and access to command grabs but she lacks buff control which is a huge weakness as she is a multi-hit character. The debuffs she has access to in her kit are mostly Slime with a sprinkle of Armor Break, Power Surge and Disable Blockbusters/Specials/Tag Ins. That's pretty sad.

I personally think it's fine for her to be this way. If she needs a nerf, I would remove the Miasma. I don't think that makes too much of a difference anyway, and I think is mostly there for the flavor/reference of undead zombies. Removing any other part of her kit will be a huge blow to her offense/defensive potential which would make her a niche-meh Diamond. And we have plenty of those already lol.
 
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Whys the defense your problem lol

Her defense is good, but nowhere near on the level of model, biting cold, etc.

Her offense is he strength, but nothing to the level we havent seen before. Take xbot, she has a high damage single hit full screen special to spam, constant precision, death mark, a ton of barrier, and heals any lost health as well. With pa, she also completely reflects back tons of damage she takes with barrier. Sounds like a lot of the stuff dwish has, and has gone unchanged for years with no calling for a nerf.

Ironically enough, shes also literally a counter to dwish on defense, so take of that as you will.

Also, you compared her, a diamond, exclusively to golds. There should be a difference in strength between those two, i dont see the issue.

tldr; shes honestly fine the way she is lol
 
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I mean, she has the Skull Heart...what did you expect?

Diamonds should out perform Golds...why else would we work so hard to get them? Nothing worse than getting a 'lame' Diamond...

I'm not saying 'Git Gud', but there is a learning curve to many new variants; I had the toughest time with Model/Necro/Splitting/Shadow when they first dropped, so much so, I had to avoid any match with them (maxed out) on the team. But, eventually I figured out how play around their 'annoying' abilities. And Death is no different, in fact, using the tactics for getting around Kill/Hope SAs can be applied here.

Basically, you can't use the same 'tactic' on every variant and that's by design. New puzzles (variants) need new and different tools to be solved (defeated).

GL&HF!
 
Death wish is definitely a strong variant, but there are counterplays to her. Precision, hex, command grab loops are a couple of counters I have on the top of my head. If anything, I would rather the devs focus on buffing the other diamonds than nerfing Death wish. If they do decide to nerf deathwish, they should buff/rework Umbrella's kit as a whole then.
 
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in general, a very strong character. there are 2 things that infuriate me about him. the first is the resurrection of yourself and your allies, kill Joy death improved and hello... the second is that I didn't get it...
 
Without any doubts. She's on completely another level.
I have her and honestly I don't think she's that good defensively. All you need to do is use a variant with no buffs who can hit hard
Offensively she's much better, but I didn't really invest in her so I don't know what to else to say
 
On offense, Umbrella is a tad slow for the modern game. Her damage scaling is pretty average and her base attack stat above average, but her move speed is absolutely horrible even in ravenous, forcing her to rely on intercepts. Her moves themselves don't have the fastest animations either. Death Wish can make up for the time loss by being one of like three fighters in the game that can get a high combo without gutting HP or time scores, other umbrellas can't. Characters like Filia, either Fortune, Valentine (if you don't dash and have good meter gain to spam Countervenom) all have ways to deal massive damage instantly while either ignoreing SAs or regenerating health. There may be setups that give Umbrellla obscene damage as well (Carosoul Kick is a 172% base power move, which is high, but a combo ender) but people don't think she's worth experimenting without DWish's existance. Even the Candy Crusher fans I know I've never seen use her outside Buer.

As far as her power on defense, she basically makes meta characters more meta and non meta characters... not even that much worse. X-Bot eats her, lower tier X-Bots such as HHunter and M-3ow exist for "budget" options (the cost is in the moves so you're really not saving much), and Biting Cold finishing off fighters is nothing new. Red Velvet is even a gold option to shut her down quickly. Any Parasoul can also shut her down thanks to precision cancel (please buff Nyawn ,these moves should not have the exact same benefit q.q). And to be honest, if worst comes to worst, her HP is pretty bad for a diamond. 62k max is on the low end, if you outtake her in and KO her first, even fighters that aren't traditionally her counters can take her out as long as they have a good attack stat. Even Bad Hair Day can pull this one off, hex doesn't stom MAs or move abilities. Her effective HP being 93k sounds impressive, until you realize Last Hope and Dream Band have even more annoying SAs and more HP when you see how to deal with them, and haven't been meta for a hot minute). I've fought well built Death Wishes, and I'll admit she's better than Killjoy, but it doesn't really matter how much better you are when you're shut down the exact same way.

Tl;Dr: She's strong, but not the strongest, and not really nerf worthy. Neuro keeps that title for rift considering both sides... but I haven't fought a well built Unholy Host, so that opinion may change soon lol
 
yes she's strong really strong.
i think its also more of a case of the other umbrellas being disappointing.
i've complained before about wunderkinds antisynergy in the chat before too.
umbrellas mainly suffering from the eliza effect where alot of units have lackluster and none existents sa's.
i honestly think they scaled back too much with most of the umbrellas.
i wouldn't mind if they all had their signatures reworked/buffed honestly.
black dahlia though its clear they actually tried to make something new interesting and fun/strong that players would enjoy.
right now we already have far too many sandbagged and weak units that'll never see play so its kinda sad when a newer fighter has too many unplayable units.(just adds more piles to the workload if dev team ever does a mass rounds of buffing/reworking)
meanwhile almost every black dahlia variant is actually unique/strong and has a usecase.
also i think they could've made umbrellas first marquee(jaws) something else other then an enrage buff on kill.
as there is almost never a reason to take it as a final stand/regen extra life is worth way more then any enrage stacks on kill.
now i myself DON'T have a deathwish but I sure wish I did!
but nerfing her won't fix the fact the other umbrellas need love.
 
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Is she hella powerful? yes. Does she absolutely need to be changed/nerfed? No lol
She's fine just the way she is honestly. I personally don't have her,but I have went against her in Prize Fights and she isn't that big of a deal. You can easily counter her with a fighter who doesn't gain buffs and hits hard.
She's very good offensively,but defensively is a bit meh.
Diamonds should always be better than the gold variants,nothing is more underwhelming than getting an awesome variant just for it to be utter trash.
Also,it's a bit silly to compare Phantom Threads to Death Wish. Phantom Threads has a completely different kit/ability set up than Death Wish lol

I feel like the devs should focus on buffing OTHER diamonds that need to be buffed/their abilties reworked,like
Star Spangled Cerebella. Not good offensively,and horrible defensively.
And with nerfs? Most diamonds are in a really good spot. Death Wish was absolutely needed for Umbrella as a fighter. All her other variants are a bit underwhelming,so she needed a variant that was better than the others.
 
Is she hella powerful? yes. Does she absolutely need to be changed/nerfed? No lol
She's fine just the way she is honestly. I personally don't have her,but I have went against her in Prize Fights and she isn't that big of a deal. You can easily counter her with a fighter who doesn't gain buffs and hits hard.
She's very good offensively,but defensively is a bit meh.
Diamonds should always be better than the gold variants,nothing is more underwhelming than getting an awesome variant just for it to be utter trash.
Also,it's a bit silly to compare Phantom Threads to Death Wish. Phantom Threads has a completely different kit/ability set up than Death Wish lol

I feel like the devs should focus on buffing OTHER diamonds that need to be buffed/their abilties reworked,like
Star Spangled Cerebella. Not good offensively,and horrible defensively.
And with nerfs? Most diamonds are in a really good spot. Death Wish was absolutely needed for Umbrella as a fighter. All her other variants are a bit underwhelming,so she needed a variant that was better than the others.
agreed in general cerebellas also need to be changed.
too many sandbag units taking up space that simply don't exist.
even both of the diamonds barely see any play.
the best cerebella is basically harlequinn.
honestly we need a patch focused just solely on reworking the underused fighters and revamping them.
 
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