Characters Dahlia - Dame Slayer [ Rework ]

[SvenZ]

The idea is to separate the Doom trigger from the Lightning Shots trigger, as those effects don't compliment each other. One provides a damage spike, while the other a kill condition, making their pairing rather redundant.

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Signature Ability 1 New​
​ LIGHTNING SHOTS deal 20/35/50% bonus damage and reduce opponent BLOCKBUSTER METER by 5/7/10% on HIT. On RELOAD after standard magazine with no SHOTS remaining gain 6 LIGHTNING SHOTS. ​ Notes: - Please refer to this diagram as to how you acquire the Lightning Shots now ​

Signature Ability 2 New​

Once per match on 4 consecutive REALODS while facing the same opponent, inflict DOOM for 30/25/20 seconds. DOOM is removed if Black Dahlia TAGS OUT or is defeated.​ Notes: - 4 consecutive reloads means that you have all 6 shots remaining while reloading those 4 times. - Using Tea Slip will count towards the 4 consecutive reload requirement - Yes, this is a Quad Damage reference (Quake series) - On each reload a DEBUFF counter will be shown on the enemy. When the counter reaches 4, the DOOM will be applied. - Doing an offensive action after a reload(attack, shoot, etc..) will remove the SA DEBUFF, and you'll have to start all over. - Moving and Blocking will NOT remove the SA DEBUFF. - If the opponent tags out, the SA DEBUFF will be removed. - You can continue to apply the SA DEBUFF until the Doom triggers. Once it triggers, the SA DEBUFF will no longer be applied.​

Reasons for the change:

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1. Lets you play around with 6 lightning shots more often, which is the key thing that makes this variant fun.
2. Grants better control on when to inflict DOOM.
3. This will make Dame Slayer more consistent. She is currently a one and done variant with nothing much to show for after using her old ability once.
4. Right now granting both DOOM and 6 Lightning Shots is quite contradictive. The lightning shots provide you with a great damage spike vs an enemy that will die regardless. They need to be separately accessed effects.
5. This palette deserves more love, given the reference and requirements to unlock it in 2nd Encore. Yes, 2 different games, but still, it's quite sad to see such a cool variant being her weakest.

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Balance Adjustment Notes:

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1. Combined with her Marquee Metal Breakdown, she can dish out some pretty decent damage and apply very consistent Armor Break. Because of that, the bonus damage from Lightning Shots has been reduced from 100% to 50%.
2. Similarly, since you can now access 6 Lightning Shots more than once, their BB reduction effect has taken a hit, as to not make it too oppressive. Reduced from 15% to 10%.
3. The AI may struggle with doing 4 consecutive reloads, which is why this will be a significant nerf to Dame Slayer on defense (unless her AI specifically gets adjusted). I think that's completely fine, considering she's not a very good defender to begin with.
4. You can no longer apply an "on opponent tag-in instant DOOM", like you can now. I believe this is a fair trade-off considering the much better control on when you can apply it.

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Changelog

Spoiler: Changelog

02/September/2024 - Lightning shot Block Buster reduction reduced from 5/10/15% on HIT. to 5/7/10% - 6 Lightning Shots are now only gained if the last shot from the barrel was a Standard Shot. This means that you can't have permanent Lightning Shots up. Only every other empty reload will provide you with 6 shots. - Doom is now only applied if the 4 consecutive reloads are done while facing the same opponent. If the opponent changes, the reload requirement will be reset. - The reload does no longer have to be with 6 shots remaining. Meaning, a reload while having 0 shots or 4 shots will count towards the SA2 trigger. HOWEVER, shooting will reset the counter. This change just makes SA1 and SA2 work together, instead of against each other.​

03/August/2024
SA1 Proposal changed: Old On RELOAD with no SHOTS remaining, gain 6 LIGHTNING SHOTS. Lightning shots deal 25/50/75% bonus damage.​ New LIGHTNING SHOTS deal 20/35/50% bonus damage and reduce opponent BLOCKBUSTER METER by 5/10/15% on HIT. On RELOAD with no SHOTS remaining, gain 6 LIGHTNING SHOTS.​

15/May/2024

SA2 Proposal changed: Old Once per match on 4 consecutive REALODS with six SHOTS remaining, inflict DOOM for 30/25/20 seconds and cause the opponent to instantly loose 20/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER. DOOM is removed if Black Dahlia TAGS OUT or is defeated​ New Once per match on 4 consecutive REALODS with six SHOTS remaining, inflict DOOM for 30/25/20 seconds. DOOM is removed if Black Dahlia TAGS OUT or is defeated.​

26/April/2024

SA1 Adjustments: - Will now always trigger when no shots remaining. (Removed the requirement for every 2nd reload. Refer to the diagram for context) - Damage reduced from 50/75/100% to 25/50/75% SA2 Adjustments: - Increased reload requirement from 3 to 4 (To make it riskier to pull off and for the Quad Damage reference) - Reworded the description to make it more clear that you must have 6 shots remaining for the effect to trigger. - Using Tea Slip will now also count as a reload for the prerequisite to trigger the Doom

 

[SvenZ]

For those wondering, this is how her Signature Abilities work now:
Wiki link: https://skullgirlsmobile.fandom.com/wiki/Dame_Slayer







It sounds good on paper, but in execution it's sadly not that great

 

[MDude]

For those wondering, this is how her Signature Abilities work now:
Wiki link: https://skullgirlsmobile.fandom.com/wiki/Dame_Slayer


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It sounds good on paper, but in execution it's sadly not that great

She seems underwhelming because her SA are one time use, however doom on command is one hell of a debuff to inflict, a lot of people are using her as a Parallel Realms/Master Silver nodes on story because of how easy it is to clear strong nodes with Doom cheese, her SA2 (Lighting shots) is good if you don't spam them like crazy, since they stun the opponent and allow you to do some nasty combo damage

 

[SvenZ]

She seems underwhelming because her SA are one time use, however doom on command is one hell of a debuff to inflict, a lot of people are using her as a Parallel Realms/Master Silver nodes on story because of how easy it is to clear strong nodes with Doom cheese, her SA2 (Lighting shots) is good if you don't spam them like crazy, since they stun the opponent and allow you to do some nasty combo damage

The Lightning Shots are (in my opinion), the more fun/interesting part of the variant, and I dislike that they're tied to the doom effect.

Because the 6 rounds of lightning shots, as you already mentioned, provide you with great combo utility, along with dealing increased damage. So you end up dealing her biggest damage spike, vs the opponent who's going to die regardless because of Doom.

 

[SvenZ]

I think it is too weak,and I don't see more sense in more lightning shots ,I think her ability needs to be based on dealing damage,or inflicting doom and giving her more chance to survive so the doom will not be taken over,because it doesn't have sense to give her more damage in the start of game and after doom which will kill the opponent without it needing to receive damage,so she just uses lightning shots on nothing,because or she kills the opponent faster than doom will work,or she will deal damage on opponent who will die soon from doom.

More lightning shots will result in more damage

 

[SvenZ]

The following adjustments have been made to the suggestions:

SA1 Adjustments:
- Will now always trigger when no shots remaining.
- Damage reduced from 50/75/100% to 25/50/75%

SA2 Adjustments:
- Increased reload requirement from 3 to 4 (To make it riskier to pull off and for the Quad Damage reference).
- Reworded the description to make it more clear that you must have 6 shots remaining for the effect to trigger.
- Using Tea Slip will now also count as a reload for the prerequisite to trigger the Doom.


Reason behind the changes:
- Getting more consistent lightning shots, as already mentioned, is the most fun part of this variant. The goal of the suggestion from its inception was to make the 6 lightning shots more accessible. Lowering the Lightning Shot damage and completely removing the Meter Drain is the correct approach here to balance it out.

- Triggering Doom now requires 4 consecutive reloads instead of 3, and you must have all 6 shots while doing so. Even 1 shot missing will reset the counter. It's still easily accessible, however it is a bit riskier to use now. And just to make it clear, you can already time your Doom as soon as the opponent tags in with the current iteration, but it's only more troublesome to use.
- Tea Slip is given some extra utility, as it will count towards the 4 consecutive reload requirement.

 

[SvenZ]

So? I said she don't needs those shots in the start of game if after she just inflicts doom and kills opponent with doom,or she needs to inflict doom in the start of game,and after give more damage to the other opponent,or completely different ability,do you even comprehend what I write?

Yep, and I covered that. That's why I propose that Doom and the Lightning Shots are no longer tied together, and trigger from different things.

As for survivability, Lightning Shots can already cc the opponent quite well, so they cover that area. The instant drain of BB meter I proposed helps keep the enemy from pulling off any shenanigans. I think there are already plenty of Dahlias which focus around survivability, so it would be good to keep Dame Slayer damage focused. Lastly, I think the 6 lightning shots SA absolutely needs to stay. It's really fun to use


Regarding the damage statement I made. I was replying to this part of your first comment:

I think her ability needs to be based on dealing damage

As for this:

do you even comprehend what I write?

It's honestly a bit hard to understand your comments

 

[SvenZ]

Old

Once per match on 4 consecutive REALODS with six SHOTS remaining, inflict DOOM for 30/25/20 seconds and cause the opponent to instantly loose 20/35/50% BLOCKBUSTER METER. DOOM is removed if Black Dahlia TAGS OUT or is defeated

New

Once per match on 4 consecutive REALODS with six SHOTS remaining, inflict DOOM for 30/25/20 seconds. DOOM is removed if Black Dahlia TAGS OUT or is defeated.

I've simplified the proposal even further, completely removing the BB reduction aspect. Given the change to SA1, allowing her to always have 6 Lightning Shots, she can really utilize her Marquee ability Metal Breakdown, allowing her to effectively apply and bypass Armor on a lot of characters, as well as providing a good damage boost.


Damage Slayer will no longer be an awkward 1 trick pony, but instead an effective Armor Breaker with DOOM as a cherry on top.

 

[SvenZ]

After some reconsidering, I think bringing back the BB reduction aspect of lightning shots will be good and give her more of a niche.

Previous suggestion On RELOAD with no SHOTS remaining, gain 6 LIGHTNING SHOTS. Lightning shots deal 25/50/75% bonus damage.

Latest suggestion LIGHTNING SHOTS deal 20/35/50% bonus damage and reduce opponent BLOCKBUSTER METER by 5/10/15% on HIT. On RELOAD with no SHOTS remaining, gain 6 LIGHTNING SHOTS.

Subsequently the damage has been reduced by a bit, and the BB Meter reduction is applied only on successful hits (current version also applies them on blocked hits). My reasoning is that since you can always get 6 lightning shot rounds on empty reload, you have much better access to the BB Reduction. In her current version, you can only take advantage of the BB reduction on your 1 singular reload with no shots, and your 1 guaranteed lightning shot bullet on normal reload. This adjustment of having the effect trigger only on Hit may not even be necessary, but qa testing can best verify that

 

[SvenZ]

- Thread reformatted for better readability.
- Adjusted "Reasons" section.
- Added "Balance Adjustment Notes" section.
- Lightning Shots BlockBuster reduction reduced from 5/10/15% to 5/7/10%
- DOOM is now only applied if the 4 consecutive reloads are done while facing the same opponent. (This means that if they tag out, you'll have to start the reload process from scratch. This prevents instant DOOM application scenarios, and allows for better tracking of when DOOM will be applied.)
- On RELOAD after standard magazine with no SHOTS remaining gain 6 LIGHTNING SHOTS.. (This means that if you try to reload after using SA1 with 6 Lightning Shots, you'll get a normal reload with a mixture of SHOTS. This change is to prevent chain-stun cheese strategies.)
- 6 SHOTS Remaining requirement for the DOOM trigger has been removed. (the reloads still need to be consecutive, with no other action in-between(walking and blocking is allowed). Gameplay wise, this is much smoother compared to the previous proposal and compliments SA1 much better)


A lot of quality of life adjustments have been made. I'm ultimately backtracking to the original idea, where your first reload with no ammo, and every other after that will be with Lightning Shots. As mentioned, this will prevent chain-stun cheese strats. Please refer to this diagram:


Feedback is appreciated!