Gold Prize Fight Cutoff

[vucaar]

Note: I don't speak english so forgive me for my writing and drafting (take some popcorn and enjoy).

Maybe it won't be a post that you would like, you player that place a lot of effort and time to get an outstanding score in Prize Fights, you would get a top 10 or not, but still it is a score to respect and costs you life and energy....

From a point of view you could take it as a criticize to your form or way to play, and I don't have the right to do that, it is the least I can do, but I feel (and maybe another player has commented that anyway, if that's the case, let me know to delete the post and reply to that one) it is necessary.

Okay so let's begin, I can say that Gold PF became the main (and the only currently) source to lvl high level characters, and that doesn't assure me anything, because even with diamonds I can't go any further than the 60th streak, I start over again and I lose, over and over.... but sometimes I say, let's just stay with that, I won't get the gold or sometimes I overdo the PF and make a score that I don't like to watch honestly (due to the repetition of the same formula again and again)...

I can play it in that way, no matter what with my free time and I would be fine, anyways I can get the gold or not, I just want to level my characters.

It is such a pity but I am not playing alone, up there I have tons of top and great players that always do better than me and it is supposed I shouldn't have a problem with it, phew... but there is...
And behind and below me there are a lot of players that are growing or are searching the prize for the first time and they just can't do it. Yeah, we had the same problem in the past and we could work it out, but in the past it was about skill and a little bit of resources (roster) that made a limit, now with diamonds and chances everywhere to get a good or great character the fact is: it isn't enough, despite everything, some of them can't reach it.

My problem is the "autocontrol" that the devs and the "confidence" they placed on us, we don't have autocontrol and we have the confidence yeah.... about going further and further etcetera, etcetera.

You can say that is a natural phenomena, most of the people that was around lvl 40 some months ago, are lvl 60-70 right now, and the scores growing answers to the easiest PF (Cerebella, Parasoul, Peacock, Filia, etc.), but I had seen fights like Painwheel, Ms. Fortune or Double (maybe the least popular) growing too. What's happening? 30M to get a character? We are doing a special/holiday PF twice a week it seems.... Where is going the concept of "special" or "holiday" if we do more points anytime? They would improve the next time the milestone rewards, but that would create distance (again for the umpteenth time ) between top and normal players, how many people just give up before reaching the 12.5M or the 25M milestone? .....

We need to be more conscious (I believe) about doing a control with the scores, I saw some people just giving up or doing the same effort as a "non-common" PF and I guess they deserve to get for the first time their prizes, or relax a little bit in their quest to become a great player. And you could say: "It is more about your comfort to do less points or farm golds as crazy"... and you are right, I search my comfort too (a prize for my laziness), but if you are not thinking to do a control, what about a "beta" idea?

- Until lvl 60 (or less, lvl 55 or 50): You will have a "static" cutoff to get the gold character of the PF.
- Lvl 61 to 70: The same system as ever (and give it the name of Master PF, wooo).

Thank you very much if you reached this point for reading, and if you want to write about it, you are welcome.

 

[Disasterrr19]

I completely agree that constant powercreep turned Gold PF into a ridiculous race to Top 10%. I still remember that two years ago I got my first Gold Fighters from PF with scores like 10-12M with my top fighters being lvl 45+ Rusty, CnO and Primed. That was rather hard, but the prize was sweet. Now I have to go to 25+M to just add one more Gold and 40 Dia shards to my stash hoping to finally pull a good DIamond in a month or two... Even with my roster of 30+ well-invested Diamonds, it still takes some time, and I am afraid to even imagine how much time and efforts a lvl 40-50 player should apply to get there. Definitely not a good stimulus for expanding the player base.

In my opinion, just a cutoff would not be enough to re-vitalize current Gold PF, it requires a serious overhaul of Ranks and Rewards system. I guess, this thread about new PF tier is the longest and most recent one with a number of really good suggestions. However, considering the upcoming changes to Rift Battles, I highly doubt that HVS plan to add a new PF tier - new Rifts are going to take that niche. But nevertheless, as long as the reward cutoffs are determined by player-generated scores, the powercreep is inevitable...

I think that the only way to overcome PF grind is to make other game modes (Dailies, Rifts) comparable in terms of rewards so that we would not feel like we miss something by choosing Dailies instead of PFs. I would not mind to focus purely on RIfts if they could provide on a weekly basis (besides already existing rewards): 2 Golds, 5 BBs and Specials for each character, enough Theo and Coins so that I would not have to grind Dailies and PFs. But to make something like this, we would have to completely demolish the current game structure and somehow build it anew - and I realize that it is an impossible and senseless task.

P.S. At least the EXP grind in PFs can be substituted with grinding Peacock Master Origin Boss node, but it gets so boring so fast...

 

[Diony]

I still remember that two years ago I got my first Gold Fighters from PF with scores like 10-12M with my top fighters being lvl 45+ Rusty, CnO and Primed.

Gold Times

 

[Art3mes]

Gold Times

Veterans....

 

[Scorialimit]

First of all, I agree with you overall. It's a feeling everyone, new players and vets alike, have had. Now, with that being said, I do want to say in response to this:

Yeah, we had the same problem in the past and we could work it out, but in the past it was about skill and a little bit of resources (roster) that made a limit,

It was still about time. I was an absolutely awful player (still am lol) and was able to make top 10% any time I wanted. But there's a couple of reasons I was able to get golds:

1) They were far less valueable. If you had a gold, you had a gold. There's no benefit to having more golds as diamond tier didn't exist yet (it was speculated as a solution, but since it wasn't official people didn't care as much)

2) Streaks were far easier. Modifiers didn't raise FS, and instead of setting your defense it took the highest FS team you brought into the match, which was usually a pure offense team. As a result it was rare to have a difficult opponent, and any fighter was viable in the grand scheme (Quite a few people believed In Denile was an S tier offense, that says something lol)

The formula for getting points quickly hasn't changed, the barrier to entry has. And if we're being honest, the kicker is the consolation prize is effectively garbage. Elemental PFs solved this problem; if you miss 10%, you get a lesser prize, but still a valuable one that helps progress. But there's no such luxury for character PFs. If you miss 10%, you get the equivalent of a napkin with the words "you tried" written in worn out pen.

I'm not sure what the character PF equivalent would be. Perhaps a character relic at 60% plus? Sure it'll likely be bronze, but if you're consistently getting it, you'll eventually get some nice silvers and even golds in there. It encourages consistency while giving some feeling of hope and progress for the small jumps.

- Until lvl 60 (or less, lvl 55 or 50): You will have a "static" cutoff to get the gold character of the PF.
- Lvl 61 to 70: The same system as ever (and give it the name of Master PF, wooo).

When I was rereading I saw this and like this system too. Even if all PFs gave the reward at 20mil, at least you would have the comfort of KNOWING it's something you can eventually reach it.

 

[vucaar]

I still remember that two years ago I got my first Gold Fighters from PF with scores like 10-12M with my top fighters being lvl 45+ Rusty, CnO and Primed.

I got my first gold in PF with 3.6M points, it was really hard in that time.

Even with my roster of 30+ well-invested Diamonds, it still takes some time, and I am afraid to even imagine how much time and efforts a lvl 40-50 player should apply to get there. Definitely not a good stimulus for expanding the player base.

Yes, that's the problem I have, I mean, it would take at least 2 rounds of 42 streaks to make it (in my case), taking all the bonuses I can and most of the time the strongest team. If I can remember well my old average streak was 18-21 streaks, making about 1.5 to 2.5M, that is not a motivation to raise the player base, you are right. There are people that does it, and in a better way I suppose or say it here, but it would take so much time...

In my opinion, just a cutoff would not be enough to re-vitalize current Gold PF, it requires a serious overhaul of Ranks and Rewards system. I guess, this thread about new PF tier is the longest and most recent one with a number of really good suggestions. However, considering the upcoming changes to Rift Battles, I highly doubt that HVS plan to add a new PF tier - new Rifts are going to take that niche. But nevertheless, as long as the reward cutoffs are determined by player-generated scores, the powercreep is inevitable...

I read the post and even when I would like some of the suggestions, I can say that, or it is too much (too many prizes, that would be more reliable than rift battles and it seems that devs has placed its bets on that mode) or they have ideas about a new PF tier that would limit player base again, and we are not searching that. I guess that a new mode, would be cool or great to make a relief about it, we make an example on this post: https://forum.skullgirlsmobile.com/threads/medici-tower-new-mode.16347/ (hope it wouldn't qualify as spam) and some other players has suggested too another modes that seems interesting and funny.

P.S.: I don't know about Peacock Master Origin experience farming, Can you do that?

 

[vucaar]

1) They were far less valueable. If you had a gold, you had a gold. There's no benefit to having more golds as diamond tier didn't exist yet (it was speculated as a solution, but since it wasn't official people didn't care as much)

Yeah, I remember that time, even when people said that you should start to make a storage of gold units with the speculation of a new tier, I didn't care and if I tried to have just one gold of each PF.

2) Streaks were far easier. Modifiers didn't raise FS, and instead of setting your defense it took the highest FS team you brought into the match, which was usually a pure offense team. As a result it was rare to have a difficult opponent, and any fighter was viable in the grand scheme (Quite a few people believed In Denile was an S tier offense, that says something lol)

I lived that too, the number of teams of Epic Sax, Harlequin and Wulfsbane were amazing, or Harlequin, Brain Freeze and Armed Forces was a nice variant.

I'm not sure what the character PF equivalent would be. Perhaps a character relic at 60% plus? Sure it'll likely be bronze, but if you're consistently getting it, you'll eventually get some nice silvers and even golds in there. It encourages consistency while giving some feeling of hope and progress for the small jumps.

It sounds interesting, maybe place a limit to the relic (bronze, silver and gold only) or instead give shards (300 silver shards and 80 gold shards, but people that play rifts wouldn't like that. I think the best way to make a relief to the modes is to improve prizes in dailies or to make new modes, obviously saying that is easy and to develop takes time and money, but it is only a suggestion.

 

[Rudølf]

TLDR (forgive my eyes); basically saying the top 10% in gold pfs is getting out of hand, right? I have to agree.

Back then, all it took was 18M max to get me a Wulfsbane (and any other gold fighter ╮•ᴗ•╭ ). Now it takes everyone a whopping 25M, a dozen of energy refills, sufficient theonite to get back streak, and a day of crying furiously from all the grinding.

Also two extra hands to cross your fingers with, because 25M might not even guarantee you a spot in the top 10%. Seriously. ;-;

Can't the cutoff just reset somehow? Get back low? I mean, yeah, 25-ish million is not much for a level 70 player, could be done in a day or two. But it's impossible for a newbie. :l

 

[Hall☆weenQueen]

I think another part of the reason the cutoff is so high is because we have diamonds now. A gold only collection will get you so far, but diamonds are what make you reach the higher streaks. As time goes on, players are leveling their diamonds and there are more stronger competitors. Because of this, I think a natural cutoff will create itself because there is only so far a diamond can take you as well. The fear is the height of the cut off. Considering how huge the gap is in strength between a maxed dia and a maxed gold, I'd guess pir final cutoff would be pretty high. The game is also a bit more popular now, so there is more competition too.

I'm not really sure what the answer is. We can't make the system too complicated because new players won't be able to grasp it (and we all know most players don't touch the forums). But at the end of the day this is a competition and the competitors are getting stronger every day.

I agree that a better prize for non-10% rewards would be nice and make not getting 10% less of a kicker. Other than that this warrants further brainstorming.

 

[vucaar]

But at the end of the day this is a competition and the competitors are getting stronger every day.

Yeah, I thought in that when I wrote about the natural phenomena of growing scores (players that resisted the 15/16M cutoff, then 18M, going through 20M and finally maybe are increasing the 25M line), in the end we just wait to let all the people to reach the same point, progress will stop in one point, but let's take some examples:

- 150M in hours in the last Halloween PF event
- 400M aprox. in a regular PF, I can't remember the name of the player but I saw it on twitter.
- Current 10% cutoff in elemental PF is around 28-32M with a Medici event on the road, end of the season of Rift Battles and only with 2 days, instead of three.

It seems that skill, roster (even with a 500% bonus) and time could take you really far, so diamonds helped to raise the score but if you want player base to reach the same point and you are just making more complicated to gather fodder, for example, to evolve diamonds (if they don't get so much natural diamonds, also keys), they just have to stay with a silver and make progress slower than ever.

There's no need to be everything wrong, there would be an extra reason that some players mentioned in other post (If I can remember), so maybe after that, scores would become more stable again:
- Extra time in some places due to quarantine.

In the end, we are going to the same place, my question is if the player base is going to resist the game of patience.

 

[Art3mes]

The best way to reduce cutoffs!
Might be a pain for some veterans.

" To disable the use of Diamond fighters after certain fight streaks, might be 40 or 50. Or to limit it some use after said streaks."
As you can't beat a 100k team with golds only, except you are pro at using Fukua and have goddamm amount of coins to lvl up moves.

 

[heyy b]

The best way to reduce cutoffs!
Might be a pain for some veterans.

" To disable the use of Diamond fighters after certain fight streaks, might be 40 or 50. Or to limit it some use after said streaks."
As you can't beat a 100k team with golds only, except you are pro at using Fukua and have goddamm amount of coins to lvl up moves.

Honestly it does seem like a pain because to be honest, the part I hate the most about pfs are the time it takes to charge up from 0 to 15 streaks. It just feels like actual mindless grinding because the actual fun of pfs for me which is the challenge starts at around 20 streaks. To have a built in streak breaker that pushes only more mindless grinding of early streaks doesn't seem like fun.

 

[Art3mes]

Honestly it does seem like a pain because to be honest, the part I hate the most about pfs are the time it takes to charge up from 0 to 15 streaks. It just feels like actual mindless grinding because the actual fun of pfs for me which is the challenge starts at around 20 streaks. To have a built in streak breaker that pushes only more mindless grinding of early streaks doesn't seem like fun.

Well said.
That's what I said, it will be a pain.

 

[Rudølf]

It just feels like actual mindless grinding because the actual fun of pfs for me which is the challenge starts at around 20 streaks. To have a built in streak breaker that pushes only more mindless grinding of early streaks doesn't seem like fun.

Oh god, yes. Yes.

Yes it does.

I hate it when that happens.

 

[Soaked-In-Soul]

I’m curious. How many points would it take, now, to get to the top 10% in the gold PF?

 

[fanghoul]

I’m curious. How many points would it take, now, to get to the top 10% in the gold PF?

You might find this thread useful, as it reports various cutoffs of recent prize fights

https://forum.skullgirlsmobile.com/threads/official-prize-fight-rift-battle-score-reports.845/

 

[Soaked-In-Soul]

You might find this thread useful, as it reports various cutoffs of recent prize fights

https://forum.skullgirlsmobile.com/threads/official-prize-fight-rift-battle-score-reports.845/

Many, many thanks! This was extremely helpful and exactly what I needed.