1. [2018/06/22]
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Fights New Character PF Tier

Discussion in 'Feedback & Suggestions' started by Graydiance, Nov 25, 2019.

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Would you like to see a higher prize fight tier than gold?

  1. Yes

    64.7%
  2. No

    35.3%
  1. Graydiance

    Graydiance New Member

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    Hello dear readers,

    I was thinking about a new character prize fight tier. As of now we have Bronze, Silver and Gold. The Tier I would like to suggest would be Diamond, it would have a new modifier, restrictions to only use diamonds and the rewards for milestones would be theo, coins, skill points and a character relic on the last milestone. The top 100-61% reward could be 20 diamond shards and a gold move, 60-31% could be 40 diamond shards, two moves and sp, top 30-11% could be 60 diamond shards, three moves and sp. Top 10% gets 80 diamond shards, three moves, sp and a character relic, and the actual top 10 gets 100 diamond shards, four moves, sp and a character relic. Another reward that could be added to the reward tiers are diamond key shards, 10 shards make a key and the top 11-30% gets one shard, top 10% gets two and the actual top 10 gets three.

    Tell me what you think about this suggestion!

    Cheers
    Graydiance
     
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  2. Dusty00

    Dusty00 Well-Known Member

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    Great suggestions. PF structure needs an overhaul as the milestones and rewards are embarrassingly outdated from pre-diamond times.

    Key shards itself is an interesting concept - but I think what we really need is a system to transmute keys - combine 10 or 20 gold keys for a diamond, and break diamonds into 5-10 gold keys.

    Also, I think it would work better if Golds are allowed so those without diamonds can break into this tier. It would be similar to how we can use silvers for Gold PFs.

    Perhaps from preventing top 10% players from making gold PF forever harder for newer players (18m for 10% now vs 4m for 10% 18 months ago), the game can lock players to do one tier of PF only. This way new players will have a much better opportunity to progress and earn gold fighters steadily.

    Finally, they can streamline theonite rewards so doing diamond tier would give the same amount as doing all 3 of bronze, silver, and gold so not to mess too much with economy. This would trickle downwards so if you’re locked in Gold PF then you’d get 2/3 amount of theonites for doing Diamond PF.
     
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  3. Lililira

    Lililira Active Member

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    I've only been around after the addition of diamonds, but I do agree that the difficulty levels of pfs (and daily events) seem to be more based around high/maxed golds. The stat multipliers seem to be there to try and balance this somewhat, but they don't prevent folks from getting ridiculously high streaks by using diamonds.

    Looking at old threads in these forums, you can see the difference in average scores before and after the addition of diamonds. One thread from the pre-diamond era I saw stated that 4.5mil used to be a safe 10% in the gold pfs, whereas now it's around 18mil due to the power creep caused by the addition of diamonds. It can also be seen in the Milestone Rewards for the gold pf, which is less than 2mil, which folks with high level diamonds can reach very easily in their first streak.

    I do agree that golds should still be allowed though, otherwise it would completely lock out some folks who have put a lot of time/effort into the game, but have poor luck. I've seen some unfortunate folks in chat who are over level 50 who still don't have a single diamond fighter (natural or evolved) so requiring 3 diamonds to even participate seems like a rather steep requirement and would lead to a 'rich get richer' scenario.

    As for potential rewards, here are my thoughts:
    • Theo, skillpoints, gold move relics, and canopy coins for milestone rewards like the other pfs, but balanced to reflect the added difficulty seems good to me.
    • Dia shards for ranking rewards would be good, and would allow folks with no nat dias to work towards them. That said, the gold pfs already give out 40 dia shards with every gold fighter earned, so the shards given out by a dia pf at higher tiers would need to be equal or greater to the value of 40 shards + a gold fighter. Maybe the 30% and up tiers could include a gold fighter, like how the gold pf 30% gives out a silver fighter.
    • Dia keys / key shards. Right now, the only ways to consistently get dia keys from the CoC and rift. (AE treasure node doesn't count, since it only has a 10% drop rate and therefore isn't consistent / reliable.) The CoC price of 1mil is pretty steep, especially since even after you have the key it takes even more money to upgrade the part of the skill tree it unlocks. As for rift, it's currently a 'rich get richer' scenario from what I can see, since diamond tier players get both dia keys for ranking and more rift coins per battle which they can use to buy dia keys, which can make it very difficult for gold tier players to keep up with them or break into diamond tier. So, an alternate way to earn dia keys consistently would be good for leveling the playing field a bit, even if it's through a shard system or something like that where it takes a bit more time but is more accessible to mid-tier players.
    • Character relics would be fun, but I'm not sure how 'worth it' they'd be as a ranking rewards. Would probably work for milestone rewards though.
    • Elemental shards maybe? They'd help the folks with no dias work towards evolving their golds, but we've already got elemental pfs on the weekends, so eh?
    Idk, I have no clue how the rewards would be balanced, and the only thing I really feel strongly about is having another way to consistently earn dia keys for mid-tier players, even if it's slow.

    ( Quick disclaimer though: I'm a little bit worried about increasing the earning rates for stuff too much by adding a whole new pf with a bunch of big rewards, since staff has to make money off of this game somehow in order to keep supporting it and adding new content. I'm not sure what would need to be done to add this while still keeping things balanced. )
     
    #3 Lililira, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  4. Kurokazeee

    Kurokazeee Member

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    Agreed. The game definitely needs more content for long-time players with multiple diamond fighters already.

    An outright nat diamond as reward for top 10% seems too generous, so I agree that diamond shards would be good. 100 shards seem too little though, perhaps 200 shards for top tier will be good.
     
  5. Graydiance

    Graydiance New Member

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    Thanks for all the positive feedback!

    Rewards can and will of course be tweaked, it was just an example.
    Allowing Gold and Diamond into the PF would be an Idea as well.

    Wish a dev/mod would take a look at this, Cellsai or Liam for example.

    Cheers
    Graydiance
     
  6. Graydiance

    Graydiance New Member

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    Bump? :p
     
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  7. Lililira

    Lililira Active Member

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    Since making my last post things have changed, 18mil is no longer safe for top 10% in gold pf, and the new 'safe' of 20mil is looking sketchier and sketchier.

    More than 10% of the population is both willing and able to grind out the points to get top 10%. While this isn't necessarily a 'problem' per se, it does mean that the cutoff is going to creep higher and higher and require more and more grinding to reach unless something is done to shake things up.

    (Tbh, I wouldn't really consider any amount of points to be truly safe right now unless you're a good 5-6mil above what the top 10% cutoff was last time.)
     
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  8. Sairus

    Sairus AKA Cellsai
    Moderator Hidden Variable Dev

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    Just popping in to let you know we're aware of Prize Fight scores rising. I'm the one who updates the Prize Fights thread after all!

    We've been having some internal discussions about it, and while we do have some potential solutions in mind, none of them are quite far along to mention publicly. A higher tier of PF has been brought up a few times, so something like what you've outlined here is not outside possibility!

    Sorry for the very 'PR speak' answer, but we are aware, and have plans!
     
  9. BallotBoxer

    BallotBoxer Well-Known Member

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    A Diamond Prize Fight would be marvelous. The 10% level in Gold will continue to rise, creating a longer grind that can only diminish new-players' enthusiasm. I spent so long with level 50 golds that couldn't evolve to diamond because I couldn't get the gold fodder from the PF because everyone was using the PF to sharpen their own collection. (Especially in the Filia fight, ya'll had no chill).

    As mentioned in posts above, in this Diamond Age, the power creep has accelerated the average from 14mil to 19mil in just half a year. A new tier PF would relieve the pressure if it had the right rewards.

    If one follows the Gold PF as an example:
    RANK 1 - 10
    2 gold moves
    1 gold blockbuster
    3 gold keys
    1 gold character
    80 skill points

    TOP 10%
    1 gold move
    1 gold blockbuster
    2 gold keys
    1 gold character
    40 skill points

    TOP 11% - 30%
    1 gold move
    1 gold blockbuster
    1 gold key
    1 silver character
    20 skill points

    TOP 31% - 60%
    1 gold move
    20 skill points

    TOP 61% - 100%
    1 gold move
    Then the Diamond PF could feature:

    RANK 1 - 10
    2 gold moves
    1 gold blockbuster
    2 diamond keys
    2 character relics
    500 diamond shards
    160 skill points

    TOP 10%
    1 gold move
    1 gold blockbuster
    1 diamond key
    1 character relic
    250 diamond shards
    80 skill points

    TOP 11% - 30%
    1 gold move
    1 gold blockbuster
    1 gold key
    40 diamond shards
    40 skill points

    TOP 31% - 60%
    1 gold move
    40 skill points

    TOP 61% - 100%
    2 gold moves

    Maybe more elemental shards in the mix? Perhaps a gold relic instead of diamond dust? What bait would lure strong players?
     
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  10. Lililira

    Lililira Active Member

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    I like these rewards!

    The only thing that bothers me a bit is the 11-30% rewards, since, using the Gold pf rewards as a comparison, the silver fighter that the gold pf gives includes a hidden bonus of 40 gold shards along with it, so having the diamond pf give out just the 40 shards without the bonus fighter feels a touch meh to me.

    However, maybe that'll help divide the community a bit more evenly between the gold and dia pfs though, since if someone can't manage top 10% on the dia pf to get the better rewards then they'll probably focus on going for top 10% in gold instead of just trying for top 30% in dia. That said, I'm sure a lot of folks will try for both, but if they're dedicating more time/energy to the dia pf then hopefully it'll mean that the gold pf cutoffs will lower a bit since people won't just be endlessly grinding there because their efforts are better spent elsewhere.
     
    #10 Lililira, Dec 9, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  11. Graydiance

    Graydiance New Member

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    Bump, I know Cell said that it was on their radar but I'd still like to hear more peoples opinions. Especially since not only the character pf scores, but also the elemental and medici pf scores continue to inflate. What could alleviate this?
     
  12. ZeoW

    ZeoW Active Member

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    I'm really on board with this Diamond Tier PF if it's implemented as above. Bronze and Silver PFs are boring grinding. Gold PFs are slightly better, simply because of the rewards. If we can combine all three into one PF, that would be great.

    I wanna throw out an idea here. I was wondering whether there could be a guaranteed back-door to get the juicy rewards for these PFs, such as through the number of streaks. For Medici for example, say reaching 40 streaks would automatically give you 250k rewards in the mail, regardless of the amount of points. Same could be done for Elemental PF, say 70 streaks or something. It's still a challenging task but it gives players security knowing that once they hit that milestone, it's a guaranteed reward. Can potentially save a lot of mindless grinding too. The top 10 Elemental Rewards have been too crazy now, scoring 140M is no longer enough which can be frustrating for some who actually tried but failed (I know I have; a couple of times where I was only ~4M short of the cutoff).

    Either that or changing the cutoff to Top 20 or something. But I feel like it's only a matter of time before the same problem appears again.
     
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  13. Dusty00

    Dusty00 Well-Known Member

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    Love the idea of individual achievement rewards to compliment competitive rewards at the end. Maybe split rewards into two parts and you can earn half by participation and efforts while earning the other by playing competitively, so it’s not all or none like the top10 rewards.
     
  14. GreatTiny

    GreatTiny Member

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    First of all. I need to say that the idea of individual rewards for "Achievements" sounds great. Something like a character relic on the mail if you reached a 30/40/50 or whatever streak in a PF would be very neat.

    Second, I think a possible "solution" to avoid the power creep would be the following:

    Right from the start, a "Diamond" tier pf would be needed. Altough the rewards shouldn't be too different from the current gold one. Milestones should cap off at around 5 Mill for the Theo / coins award. And the Rewards should still be a Gold Fighter (Could be a different one from the Gold PF) AND MAYBE some dia shards and some elemental shards. Just that. The 30% cut off could be only the gold fighter.

    What would avoid the "score creep" is that along with that, the gold PFs shouldn't allow diamond fighters anymore. That way, altough no one would be "banned" from playing the other ones, you would really need to have the will to go 10 mill or so with only gold fighters (and gold fighter FS) while also competing for the Diamond PF.

    I think this way, at least the playing field would be "even" with mid level players that happen to have 4/5 gold fighters only. In my case for example, I know that if this were the case I would most likely just go for the milestones and head up to Dia PF right after.

    Well, those are my two cents. Just a thought. Most likely the Devs already have some thoughts on this, too.
     
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  15. Dusty00

    Dusty00 Well-Known Member

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    I really dig the idea of a different gold variant as diamond PF reward. Perhaps a random one so you have a better shot than relying on gold shard relics. Gold PF should award the basic gold variants that gives mid range players to a better chance to compete. Diamond PF should award variants that are more niche and made more for rift and specific uses.

    Rather than elemental shards, I think another much needed currency is skill points. Diamonds need a whopping 5,000 SP to max marquees, which is really hard to get unless you dump a lot of rift coins and or grind all your fodders.
     
  16. Disasterrr19

    Disasterrr19 Active Member

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    I totally agree that it's time to introduce a Diamond Tier PF, because power creep in Gold PF never stops and XP boosts allow more and more players quickly build their carrier Fighters and push, push, push...

    However, I think that Diamond PF should be somehow really different from our routine Bronze/Silver/Gold ones. Look at Master Story Mode - this is a completely different experience in comparison to Basic/Advanced/Expert! Something for those who consider themselves high-rank players (like 100M milestone during Holiday PFs) to test their skills and collection...

    I was sitting and thinking about how HVS devs would have to invent a whole new set of PF modifiers and then a crazy thought visited that stupid thing in between my ears - what if we could choose the modifier ourselves when setting a defence team? PF Catalysts anyone? Not only that would give this new PF much more variety, it would make it much more competitive, turning it into a real endgame thing! Obviously, OP combinations would surface immediately, but we will never know without testing.

    Rewards also should differ from Gold PF considerably. We all know that after you've collected and maxed enough Fighters, your goal shifts towards finding perfect Moves. So why not to make the milestone and rank rewards more Move-oriented? Let's give participants a bunch of gold Moves for Fighter-of-the-PF, while top 10% could get an option to reroll or somehow adjust their existing Moves (check this thread for more info). Character-specific Gold Relics would be great too for those who have 17 Divas from PFs but have never seen Bloodbath. And probably, instead of Diamond shards, let's put a small chance to pull a Diamond Fighter from this Relic - is it gacha game or what?

    Introducing a fourth tier of PF would also further increase the grind and the routine - we, the munchkins, still want to get all Theo we can grab, don't we? So, a tough choice could be introduced: you'll have to choose between Gold and Diamond PFs. Gold is easier, with more reliable outcome and standard prizes, while Diamond provides more challenge, more variety and better rewards with the tradeoff of getting kicked into oblivion by monstrous defence teams. Someone complained a while ago that Boss Nodes in Rifts became not tough enough after HP and ATK modifiers nerf and Piercing introduction - come one, try to beat this insane Triple Val team with 500% Streak modifier!

    Most likely my suggestions are just a bunch of senseless crap, but who knows...
     
    #16 Disasterrr19, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  17. Pit Frango

    Pit Frango Active Member

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    the idea of catalysts for PF is very good ... because in addition to being something that sets it apart from the others ... it will no longer be a predictable dispute ... because everyone at the top ranks has no difficulty in overcoming these modifiers of Gold PF ...and as a prize a diamond key for the top 10% would already be great ... because this is the biggest problem for those who have natural diamonds..
     
  18. Lililira

    Lililira Active Member

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    I see this thread resurfaced again, not that surprising since the 10% cutoff is still steadily rising, and the previous char pf (Valentine) had a cutoff of over 21mil.

    I like the new ideas I'm seeing here!

    PF catalysts / catalyst slots would help mix things up from the other ranks quite a bit, though I'm not sure I'd want to be constantly spammed by Darknut / Frost Armor / Futile Resistance, but if any new catalysts were added for PFs I'd want them to be available to Rift as well to allow for a greater variety of strategies there too.

    Maybe this could be balanced out a bit through other requirements? Like Master Mode type team limitations for Defense teams that are different every time the pf rolls around, for example, one time it could be 'No Big Band' or 'No Water', and the next time it could be 'Must Have Fire', and if it *did* ever require a specific character it would be the one that matched the PF. That said, this idea would compound the already present problem of locking out lower level folks with limited collections of gold/dia fighters.

    Another idea, there could be a basic modifier similar to the ones in Gold/Silver pfs, but in addition to that there could be an extra modifier added on that changes up every time like the Medici modifiers, to shake things up a bit to prevent total dominance of any one strategy.

    I'm also liking the idea of the rewards focusing less on obtaining new nat dias, and instead on building up the ones you already have. If you're able to participate, you've definitely got a few decently invested + leveled golds or partly invested dias to work with already. Dia shards should still be there in the rewards somewhere since getting good new dias is great, but I can't be the only one with a bunch of unused nat dias sitting around because they're just too expensive to upgrade and I'm key-broke, right? Definitely want there to be a way to get dia keys from this, as well as decent amounts of CCs, SPs, and gold moves. Heck, maybe even catalysts.

    I've been waiting to see a specific few catalysts from the CoC for literal months now with no luck. Getting the exact gold char-specific version of a standard catalyst that you actually need is a real pain, since they've got such a low spawn chance to begin with, and there's an absolutely massive pool of them for the game to choose from, so getting one with the exact combo you need is way rarer than getting a random diamond pull. Getting moves with the right stats is also similarly rare, but that balances out because there are a ton of ways to get them, so I'd love to see more ways to get catalysts to help balance that out too. Maybe it'd mix up the meta a bit too, since I think part of the reason why the elemental / special character catalysts are so common in rift is because they've got a much higher spawn chance in the CoC.
     
    #18 Lililira, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  19. Erick Draves

    Erick Draves Active Member

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    I just did 100m for the first time in my life in Valentine´s PF!! so now Am I considered a High-Rank player?!...

    -What´s your Rift rank sir?
    -Well... ham... if you consider a total lack of good, or desent, or even working calatists, Am a... hum... rockie... puck yiu catalists...
    -Hum I see... How many movements/bb´s do you have alredy in level 15?
    -I have one Inferno of Leviatan in level 9, coz I ROOOCK!.... >:) (Attack +30% OMG! that´s crazy!!)
    -Natural diamonds in level 60?
    -Nope... just a evolved Squigly Bio, but she got to level 60 by herself!! :O
    -But you have then bunches and bunches of adventures and evolved diamonds, right?
    -Yeah!! I have like... 4 e-diamonds!! But they are tier SS for me so... #feelblessedbyRNGgodess UuU
    -Well, we have bad news and good news for you sweet summer child... Bad News is that you deserve better, like everyone. Good news is that here, in SGM, everyone is a HIGH-RANK PLAYER for us, thanks for playing!!
    -Yaaaaaaaay!! >:D
     

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