1. [2018/06/22]
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[Guide] Show Me ya Moves: Move Stats and Which To Invest In

Discussion in 'General Strategy' started by Scorialimit, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. Scorialimit

    Scorialimit Active Member

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    Note: order within tiers are alphabetical

    A prelude about Accuracy:
    This stat is so complicated and varied that it almost became its own topic. As it's not clearly defined, it's worth mentioning that it only increases the odds of fighter Signature Abilities to activate, not move abilities. With that being said, part of what makes this stat so complicated is how different fighters can be, while the increase in chance isn't even between fighters as some hit more often than others. A fighter like Bad Hair day can get decent combos thanks to Filia's wide array of multi-hit moves, taking advantage of an increase in proc chance from 10%>15%. Taking accuracy out of the picture does quite a bit to her consistency. A fighter that uses it well without needing it is Freeze frame; while bypassing resistance and increasing proc chance sounds good in theory, she already has a naturally high proc rate and has so many projectiles that can hit often that she'll probably prefer more attack or one of the S tier stats. Meanwhile, a fighter like Primed has no use for it. She has no chance in her SA, her bleed isn't something she relies on by any means (and gives smaller returns than critical mass overall), and isn't worried about resistance between immunity and precision taunts. No other stat has such a diverse array of returns from a single stat.

    However, for the sake of complete information, here's some examples of fighters who like accuracy on their movesets:
    * Bad Hair Day: As mentioned in the example, her bleed potential and low damage make her a strong candidate
    * Purrfect Dark: While her SA is guaranteed, it only procs one time on match start or when a fighter tags in, meaning ensuring you get your debuffs off is incredibly important
    * Resonant Evil: While it's easy to see Accuracy and Resistance as opposites, RE is able to use both to increase his odds of getting armor and inflicting stun while making cursing or armor breaking him more difficult

    Here's some examples of fighters that can use Accuracy, but prefer other stats:
    * Djinn Frizz: While converting her buffs more gives more enrage, she only needs to do it a maximum of twice per fight. Giving her more meter gain lets her use more BBs during those windows and benefits her more throughout the fight
    * Wulfsbane: He has a 50% chance on two different debuffs, and he has lupine to ensure he gets something. He'd prefer more damage and meter gain

    If they don't rely on debuffs or have a chance based SA, Accuracy is C tier for them.
    With all that out of the way, let's get to the main event:

    Offense:

    SS:
    Atk%
    This stat is the cornerstone of offense. It's better than any other stat you can ask for. Even if it never gets upgraded, having five atk% moves will increase your base damage by 30%! It applies to every hit against every opponent. While not all SAs interact with it the same way, it still gives a significant boost to damage and will almost always be taken. There's a few specific cases where you don't need it for a perfect set however:

    * As mentioned before, Bad Hair Day is an incredible bleed inflicter, but lacks damage, so she prefers Accuracy until it hits 50%.
    * Purrminator's SA doesn't scale her Atk% modifiers. Considering how many hits she deals, Atk% will very quickly have diminishing returns compared to Crit Rate and Crit Damage.
    * Double more than has the attack to run it, but you can also fully rely on chaos and use Crit Rate to spam debuffs.
    * While it's still strictly the best damage booster for them, Miasma focused Fukuas and Bio can technically get away without it thanks to their % based damage.

    S:
    Meter Gain
    Piercing
    Both of these stats are fantastic to have. Piercing allows you to deal with armor (but be careful of Frost Armor in rifts) while Meter Gain can help both your neutral and combo potential. Piercing isn't capable of going below 0 defense, so until you get to later stages of the game you can get away without going crazy on it. Also keep in mind piercing caps at 50%, but it doesn't have any built in, so you probably won't overload unless you have it on all your moves.

    A+:
    Crit Damage
    Crit Rate
    Special Cooldown
    All of these stats are in a weird place, where they're nice to have but can be sidestepped without much issue. Crit stats are technically a DPS boost, but leave a few matchups where they either hurt you or are dead stats (it's mostly painwheels with Marquee you want to be aware of) and are a lower boost than both Atk% and Piercing. Crit Rate and Crit Damage give the same DPS boost, but rate adds some more consistency, making it a little better overall. I won't be going in depth on precision and death mark here, but just know if you're using precision often on a fighter you'll care less about Crit Rate and if you get Death Mark both stats are a bit more useful. On a fighter that uses lots of grabs, you can probably ignore these stats altogether, since grabs can't crit. For Crit Rate, you can also run a Sheltered support if you're either rifting or not don't need the extra carry slot for PF.

    Special Cooldown I find generally extremely useful on SMs up to level 9. They can help your neutral as well as how consistently you can have moves up in combos. However, as you level Special Moves they get a naturally higher cooldown, so if you take moves to 12 you won't notice the difference as much. You can also run a Harlequin support if you're either rifting or don't need the extra carry slot for PF.

    A:
    Defense
    Element Bonus
    HP%
    These stats are either situationally very useful, or always somewhat nice to have but less so than the stats above. Defense and HP% may not increase damage, but it allows you to make more mistakes. These could do up or down in priority depending on how confident you are in your own skills and how naturally safe the fighter you're investing in is.

    Element Bonus is fighter specific, but multiplies ALL damage dealt. This means in the right conditions it can be a bigger damage boost than Atk%. However, it will only work against one opponent element and caps at 50%, so it's not a stat you want universally (although Double can appreciate it well).

    B:
    Block Proficiency
    Crit Resist
    Resistance
    Tag Cooldown
    These stats are generally undesirable, but are better than the stats below it. Block Proficiency is specific in use; while it's almost always worse than defense and HP%, you can get it to 100% to completely avoid taking damage while blocking. This can be used with bronze/silver BHD (and really any TFC filias) to achieve insane longshots to get great EXP and flex on your opponents. However, it doesn't stop BB3s or other unblockable and requires significant investment before getting real returns. Death Mark will also completely kill the strategy.

    Resistance isn't great, but can reduce accuracy stacking REs (as well as possibly dodging their stun) and lets any other debuff inflicter become RNG. This stat doesn't ignore catalysts or modifiers though, so you'll usually just want an immunity taunter over relying on this.

    Tag Cooldown only made it here over other stats because tagging out lets you remove debuffs, and being able to do that quickly might help if you get too much bleed or something.

    Crit resist is forgettable, but may prevent a stray scope or other high damage move from going from taking a chunk to killing you. Probably worse than the rest of this tier, but better than all of C tier.

    C:
    Atk#
    Element Penalty
    HP#
    Both flat Atk and HP have nearly no benefit (I used them early game as they were a bigger boost, but once I leveled their trees or evolved them past bronze they had poor returns, and in gold/diamond they have practically no returns. They're basically dead stats.

    Element Penalty has a higher benefit, but caps at 20% increase (to 0%). This can technically be achieved with a single level 7 move. If you're fighting at an elemental disadvantage, either you're so early on that move stats don't matter or there's a good chance you already hard counter whatever you're facing anyways (Ex. Mean One vs. Frost Armor), so you aren't going to be looking for this stat anyways.

    Defense:

    SS:
    HP%
    Basically the Atk% equivalent of defense fighters, With even fewer situations where it's not ideal (and even in those situations, it's extremely useful). Don't Poke the Buer painwheels can get away without it to proc the catalyst more and Criminal Mind can do the same, but both of them still get higher returns if they invest in it and it procs.

    S:
    Defense
    Meter Gain
    Resistance
    Special Cooldown
    Defense actually gives higher returns than HP% and stacks with armor, but it caps at 50%, and you get 15% from your SA tree. HP% is only limited by how lucky you are, making it the more important stat to have on every move. Resistance is very good for annoying debuff users and lowering accuracy. Meter gain and Special Cooldown lets the AI spam their moves more on defense, giving more opportunities to harass or annoy the opponent and in the case of projectile SMs, allow them to freely get a BB3.

    A:
    Atk%
    Crit Resist
    Piercing
    Atk% gives more damage to BB3s and whenever the AI gets a stray hit off. Crit Resist can be great at combating crit SAs, but isn't optimal for damage reduction in general. It also has a niche use of letting Dread Locks check ICU and Bloodbath, but for the most part it's forgettable. Piercing isn't very desirable either, but since the skill tree gives 15% defense, it's a guaranteed damage boost to that point.

    B:
    Block Proficiency
    Crit Damage
    Crit Rate
    Element Bonus
    Tag Cooldown
    All these stats only miss C tier because they at least have potential to do something, however minimal it may be. You should still avoid them pretty much any time you can, but if you don't have the option to, pick these over C tier stats

    C:
    Atk#
    Element Penalty
    HP#
    The reasoning for these stats being low are the same as in offense.

    Hope this guide gives some help to people figure out what stats to invest in! Adjustments may be made if I learn new information or if adjustments to any stats are made.
     
    #1 Scorialimit, Jun 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
    Loiniel, Rudølf, Dusty00 and 11 others like this.
  2. Mirak

    Mirak New Member

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    Thank you for the post, it is really useful! Few questions though...
    For offense, why is block proficiency worse than HP and Def? I always thought it can be very useful for some characters, especially when intercepting dashes is not always an option - and I am not very good at it

    For example, for my Primed, I am trying to give her very high attack and 100% block proficiency - she died many times from chip damage alone, would she be better off with higher Def or HP instead? And why?

    I know the difference between Def and HP, but when is one stat better than the other? And does it make a difference for when my character is offensive or defensive?
    If I understand correctly, for offense both stats are just for fool proofing, higher survivability if I do any mistakes, please correct me if I am wrong!
     
  3. tiffany butterfly

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    the defence and atack here isnt playing defencsivly, its for pf defence or rift defence, where you leave your fighte for ai to control and honestly when you fight pf or right do you ever atack the ai when they are blocking? only once or twice to bait an openning perhaps. so block is not as good as hp% and def%.

    and for why hp% is better than def%. you can.only add def up to 50percent but hp percentage have to upper limit. meaning you can have 150 percent ho or go mad 200 percent hp! thats god tier defence.

    switching to percent icon on my phone keyboard is too hardヽ(‘⌒´メ)ノ
     
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  4. Dusty00

    Dusty00 Well-Known Member

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    I personally would swap crit rate and SM CD for offense. Other than fighting against painwheels, crit rate can significantly boost your attack. SM CD isn’t as potent when you have your moves at 12-15. HQ also exists on offense making it not as critical.

    Otherwise this is very helpful guide since one of the most asked questions in discord is “is this a good move?”
     
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  5. Scorialimit

    Scorialimit Active Member

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    Put simply, the investment needed to make block proficiency greater than offense is very significant. This can be worth it on a gold(or silver) fighter if they have methods of ensuring the win against significantly stronger opponents. I honestly thought about putting them in the same tier because of that example. However, it only outclasses the Defense and HP bulk additions once you get significant move levels in (I believe that Filia has all level 11-12 moves to get that much block prof, and still requires at least some luck) and doesn't protect you from BB3s without meter control. Defense and HP still work on block, but also work while getting hit, which gives you better odds of surviving BB3s.

    Tiffany covered the rest of what I was going to say.


    I'm 50/50 on this. I wrote this guide with level 9 moves in mind, but late game players I know go for 12 often(15 is extremely end game or move specific IMO, because of the insane costs. I only have a single move this high!). But it's true as you level an SM the cooldown lowers with it. For most fighters you won't need it insanely low, just enough so you don't have to wait too long after your combo to use it again. I've found it very important on some of my Fortune builds that use precision hits but less so on Squiglies who just charge it during their combo anyways. I'll think about if I should switch it or just add a qualifier to it.

    I'm not super sold on Crit Rate being on the same tier as piercing and meter either. I can also see it being better than all the A tier options though. Maybe it can go in it's own A + tier? I'll mull this over as well. I'll make some adjustments on both of these sometime soon either adjusting their positions or clarifying them a bit more.
     
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  6. Dusty00

    Dusty00 Well-Known Member

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    I can see Crit rate and SM CD at A+ tier if that helps.
     

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