1. [2018/06/22]
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How to deal with annoying defense

Discussion in 'Tips & Tricks' started by Pepperlunatic, Mar 31, 2019.

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Does this guide helped you on how to deal with difficult defenders?

  1. Heck yes

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  2. Still need more stuff

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  1. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    I'm sure nearly all of you guys had issues with tough defense characters and want to know how to deal with them so here I present to you the guide for how to counter those pesky defense characters. Well since I actually hate stupidly long introduction so lets just go straight into the main course.

    What to have in general

    1. Hex: double with bandwagon, Red Velvet, Rainbow Blight (other things that I did not put are very situational or just outright useless)
    2. Bleed: Bad Hair Day, Rusty, Buzzkill, Bloodbath, Class cutter, Love Crafted (rest of the bleeds aren't that great compared to these I mentioned here)
    3. Buff Eraser: Rusty, Doublicious, Silent Kill, Stand Out, Eliza with Chaos Banish, Parasoul with Canopy Bounce(Drag n Bite and silver chord is not reliable)
    4. Curse: Sketchy, Purrfect Dark, Squigly with Burst or Draugen Punch.
    5. Heal Block: Double with Buzzard or Burst, Class Cutter, Love Crafted, Wulfsbane, Sqiguly with Inferno of Leviathan (Graveyard shift is not good compared to these above)
    6. Immunity: Surgeon General, Sketchy, Squigly, Parasoul, Peacock with taunt. (in denile might count if you are on silver or bronze pf but weekend warrior is just no)
    7. Bio Exorcist: Literally Bio Exorcist.
    8. Doom: Obviously Xenomorph.
    9. Armor Break: Squigly with Drag n Drop, Beowulf with Wulf Blizter or Airwulf, Pea Shooter, Bad Ms Frosty, Headstrong, Cerebella with Battle Butt or Cerecopter, Eliza with Sekhmet's Bite or Nekhbet Breaker, Painwheel with Buer Thresher, Ms Fortune with Fiber Upper (rest of the stuff that I did not put are very situational)
    10. Bleed converter: Bloodbath, ICU Valentine
    11. Outtake: literally anyone with outtake

    Guide for specific characters

    *Unless the enemy has immunity, doom is always the right answer for everything.

    1. Untouchable

    Untochable's annoying part come from the unflinching status when hit. To properly counter Untouchable, characters that applies curse like sketchy, purrfect dark, characters that applies hex like Rainbow Blight, and characters that erases buffs like Silent Kill. Also, Ultraviolet can act as a counter to Untouchable too. If you don't have counter for some reason and she gets unflinching in the middle of your ground combo, either stop the combo and back away or use blockbuster as unflinching general does not work on blockbusters. Also you can use grabs while she is in unflinching state to buy time till unflinching is expired. Using characters that does less hit and more damage like Cerebella can be helpful for they have less chance to proc her SA; however, do note that RNG can be very mean sometimes and ruin your day no matter what.

    2. Resonant Evil

    This one is a bit tricky because you have little to no chance of winning if you are unprepared and underleveled. The best way to deal with Resonant Evil is not letting him to get armor by applying hex, curse, or constantly applying armor break. If you cannot do that, you must at least get immunity to make sure you don't get stunned. It is risky but you can also apply some bleed and wait till his hp drops low. Of all buff removers, Doublicious is very useful against Resonant evil for she can also put hex easily and if she gets stunned, she can transfer that stun to resonant evil. Using grab or using low hit character is more risky for resonant evil than Armed Force or Untouchable thanks to the stun so be sure to think again before fighting Resonant Evil unprepared.

    3. Armed Force

    Armed Force is a mixture of Untouchable and Resonant Evil and the solution for her is also a mixture of both of them. Get anything that prevents her armor or unflinching and you are good to go. Also, using grabs and low hit characters like i mentioned works well with Armed Force unless you are having a real bad hair day. he he

    4. Meow and Furever

    This one is very difficult to deal with if you are unprepared because not only last stand make her alive for so long but also it stuns you at the end of the duration which can be fatal in high streak pf. You can either prevent her from getting last stand by using hex, curse, or buff eraser or just get immunity to prevent the stun from happening. If you don't have those two, you can use certain blockbusters that does not get affected by stun or level 3 blockbuster just before last stand expires to ignore the stun.

    5. Assassin's Greed

    Assassin's Greed punishes you by applying bleed and massive damage when you use blockbusters. She also gets healed when she is near enemy with bleed. Because of this two things, you must remember these two things: try not to use blockbuster and do not get bleed. Just using characters like Harlequin that uses speicals well is the most simple and easy way to deal with Assassin's Greed. This way, you won't need to worry about her SA1's damage or SA2's healing. However, be careful not to get hit by some of her specials and blockbusters that makes you bleed because that will proc her SA2 which will give her incredible sustain. Valentine with ICU and Bloodbath are another decent way of dealing with Assassin's Greed for it renders her SA2 healing useless by converting the bleed into regen, however, don't forget that her SA1 still deals damage. If you don't have any of these but you have Surgeon General? Just wait for surgeon general's SA to pop and you don't have to worry about those pesky bleeds and Assassin's Greed's SA2 heals (like I said, you will still receive damage from SA1).
    Also, Nearly Departed can be a "theoretical" counter for if you proc her SA1 Assassin's Greed's SA does not hurt Nearly Departed in anyway including the bleed(if you max your SA1). Even though the bleed you still have may proc Assassin Greed's SA2, you can use Inferno of Leviathan's Heal block to mitigate her healing from SA2 or just get immunity from her taunt. However, because Nearly Departed's damage is stupidly low, do not actually try using her on a well developed Assassin's Greed or you will be hating me a lot. Only use this on Assassin's Greed with similar fight score.

    6. Brain Freeze

    Because Brain Freeze is not about buffs, it is a bit more difficult than those buff using defenders above. The ways to counter her is using bleed or using hex. Since well developed Brain Freeze has decent bleed resist, Hex is pretty much the best option in dealing with Brain Freeze. Also, please don't say Epix Sax is counter of Brain Freeze because you would most likely get punished by her level 3 blockbuster.

    7. Bio Exorcist

    The most simple way to deal with her is to kill her before she gets at least one dragon charge. But what if she gets it? There are several choices: One is just simply use outtake to deal with her later. This removes her dragon charges and gives you a second chance to kill her before she charges again. Second is to use heal block to prevent her heal. Sure you still receive damage but at least you can kill her much quickly than before. Third is a good ol' hex. Also, it is very important to note that she can drain her allies health to revive if she dies while having dragon charge. This can be use to drain her allies if you wish so. This revive does not work if she has no living teammate.

    8. Surgeon General

    Other than using Buff removals, outtake is a simple solution for dealing with her. Just bring her front and kill her first. However, do not underestimate her for she can be very pesky especially if she has ICU.

    9. Multiple Valentines and Dead Alive Squiglys

    The best way to deal with them is just make sure you don't kill them at the corner. If you do, you at least fall back as much as possible and try to fight away from the wall. Also against Dead Alive Squiglys, using curse on enemies on Squigly's corpse can prevent last stand from procing.

    10. Dread Lock and Tainted Blood Painwheels

    These are one of the most pesky things to deal with even for a high rank player like Moor. For Dread Lock, Valentine with ICU or Bloodbath is the most easiest choice of counter for they convert the bleed that Dread Lock gives into regen and use it to heal all the reflected damages. For both Dread Lock and Tainted Blood Painwheels, just use someone with good ways to recover health or have Surgeon General as support. Hex can work on Dread Lock but it does not work on Tainted Blood Painwheels so keep that in mind. For unconventional method, you can use Nearly Departed to block all the reflected damage with her invincibility.

    11. Immoral Fiber and Xenomorph

    For those two, here is a simple answer: Outtake. Just push them away and deal with them last. As for Immoral Fiber, you can use Nearly Departed to ignore her SA damage.

    12. Heavy Metal and Grudge Painwheels

    They are pretty much an inferior version of Armed Force or Resonant Evil as a defender. The counter is pretty much same as how you counter Armed Force: buff removal, armor break, and curse. Hex does not work on Grudge Painwheels so keep that in mind.

    13. Just Kitten

    For those who have not fought with Just Kitten, DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE HER. She can just simply ignore your ground combo and punish you for being unlucky. You can counter her with hex to prevent her SA procing but you can also use projectiles to deal with her because her SA does not work on projectiles.

    Well that is it for now I guess. If there is any other difficult defenders that I missed, please notify me and I will find the right counter for that. Also, I love any suggestions and constructive criticisms so feel free to tell me those so that I can make other guides better. thanks for reading this guide and hope you will triumph in your battles.

    EDIT 1:
    Honorable Mentions for the poor souls I did not mentioned:
    1.Hex: Gloom and Doom, Stage Fright
    2. Bleed: NO I AM NOT DOING A FULL LIST OF THAT THING. ITS JUST TOO MANY TO MENTION.
    3. Erase Buff: Summer Salt, Squigly with Silver Cord or Drag n Bite, Ms Trial
    4. Curse: Gloom and Doom, Stage Fright, Graveyard Shift
    5. Heal Block: Gloom and Doom, Graveyard Shift
    6. Immunity: Grim Fan, Epic Saw(it is controversial but idk), Weekend Warrior, Feline Lucky
    7. Doom: Stage Fright
    8. Armor Break: SAME AS BLEED. I AM NOT GOING TO FIND EVERY SINGLE ARMOR BREAK THAT I DID NOT MENTIONED.

    EDIT 2: added color and two new category for general things to have: bleed converter and outtake
     
    #1 Pepperlunatic, Mar 31, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  2. Reshiram18

    Reshiram18 Well-Known Member

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    Please add Evil Dead Squigly to the list for curse at the beginning. You should also add ICU Vals to the entry for Assassin's Greed as a counter to her because they can use blockbusters without activating Assassin's healing since the ICU will convert the heavy bleed to heavy regen. Additionally Nearly Departed is not a complete counter to Assassin because while she can block the damage and bleed damage she can't always negate the healing from the Assassin SA2. In fact I am surprised that you did not even mention Assassin's SA2 a single time in your guide to beating her.
     
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  3. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    Sorry for forgetting to put those stuff you mentioned. I should have proof-read more before I post things I guess. But about Assassin's Greed though... ...
    1. Well considering you have killed her without using blockbuster, you don't really have to worry about her SA2 so I sort of forgot to mention about it. But still just in case if you get hit by dead cross or something, I have added caution about SA2's healing.
    2. As for Nearly Departed being not a complete counter... ... she is not a great counter but not the reason you mentioned. Squiglys can easily apply heal block using Inferno of Leviathan so utilizing this can negate the SA2's healing effect. The real problem that Nearly Departed has and the reason why I called this counter a theoretical one is her stupidly low damage. Because her SA is too defensive and her stats ain't that great, you will be having difficult time killing Assassin's Greed in time. Also, the heal block from inferno of leviathan isn't always there so no matter how good you are, it will take very long time to deal with well developed Assassin's Greed. I should have explained this more on there but my laziness took toll so... ... yeah sorry for not elaborating on that part.

    EDIT: Also, don't forget that Squigly can get immunity from taunt. Anyway I fixed those parts based on your criticism. Thanks for pointing that out. :)
     
    #3 Pepperlunatic, Mar 31, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
    educavalcantee likes this.
  4. Blimeylimey

    Blimeylimey Member

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    I see you have Parasoul with Canopy Bounce already, but I think Summer Salt should get a special mention for Buff Eraser.
     
    VictuTheNewb and Pepperlunatic like this.
  5. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    You know what, I'll just make a special mention section for all those forgotten poor souls. The reason why I didn't put summer salt is same as silver chord and drag n bite: not that great for removing buff. (for summer salt, it is just too slow)
     
  6. theLoneskull

    theLoneskull Active Member

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    Hurting Hurdle is a projectile tho. It can proc the armor break from Pea Shooter's ability and Windswept's always dodging it even tho it hit her when I use Dragon Brawler because he has it equipped
     
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  7. educavalcantee

    educavalcantee Active Member

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    I just wanted to add that if you don't have ANY of the means listed above to deal with buff reliant defenders like AF, RE and Untouchable, using low but hard hitters like Cerebella may help. Less hits = less % chance of activating the ability. And using throws can buy you some time to deal with characters with Unfliching (But be careful with Armed Forces, she can stagger you.) :)
     
  8. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    Dunno where i heard hurting hurdle is not projectlie but thanks for pointing that out.

    Edit: fixed
     
    #8 Pepperlunatic, Apr 1, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  9. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    I wasn’t sure whether I should put that thing about less hit guys or not because it barely made any difference to me everytme i try it(thanks RNGesus). I’ll add that in addition to warning of how RNG can still screw you despite your effort. Also, thanks reminding me to talk about grabs. Totally forgot about that even though i use that method a lot.

    Edit: added
     
    #9 Pepperlunatic, Apr 1, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  10. TasiaChaan

    TasiaChaan Active Member

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    For defenses who had "Armor" SA, I think blockbuster with low combo, but high damage for prevent Armor stack (ex. - Countervenom, Hatred Install, etc.) works too, as I always did.

    Maybe anyone already has this idea, I just want to share.
     
  11. VictuTheNewb

    VictuTheNewb New Member

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    My favorite way of dealing with her is leveling up my characters as much as I can before facing her, and in a fight, attacking as often as possible. Also, I like to use Diamonds are Forever to deal a ton of damage in a single hit when she gets her first dragon charge: it will damage her own team, and also remove that annoying health drain.
     
  12. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    even though i did mention low combo high damage stuff they aren’t really reliable compared to others i mentioned above. The problem is how do you intend to fill up your blockbuster without taking risk for triggering unflinching or stun. It may work on weaker or decent enemies but with stronger ones or ones with modifiers it can be a bit risky. In other words, it is more like a last resort when you have no counter characters than a legitimate counter.
     
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  13. Pepperlunatic

    Pepperlunatic Active Member

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    Leveling up is not a great solution because in the end, you will face a diamond bio exorcist with bunch of stat boosts from modifiers which makes the leveling up part useless. That was why the bio exorcist in old boss node was so gamebreaking. You cannot rush her down thanks to stat modifiers and you cannot use debuff on her to boost your damage or prevent healing. So in terms of high win streak pf or high level rift battle, your solution is not valid. However, in decent win streak or mid level rift battle, your method are totally fine. Because i took account of the high streak pf and high level rift battle, I didn’t put that method in this guide.
     
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  14. Mekino

    Mekino New Member

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    how does defense and armor break really work?
    I know there is 50% cap but if I have more than that and got inflicted with armor break?
    for example if i Have 65% df total in my move set (it will cap at 50%) and I got armor break that -25%, it will become 25 or 40?
     
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