Natural Diamonds discussion thread

  • [2018/06/22]
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Are Natural Diamonds a good idea?

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Yea sure, more ways to make your wallet dead. I’m still against it regardless whether they are rare or not, because now they’re just “Screw your Evolved Diamonds” which literally makes anyone who diamond evolved a fighter like Hair Apparent feel worthless, considering their SA can be downright even more powerful than golds and thus making you very agitated because you spent millions on your gold who became a diamond. What’s the use of shards and esssences anyways if they know they’re going to introduce Natural Diamonds anyway? or even why those natural diamonds? Could’ve just become 4th wave of golds (Excluding Elemental Exclusives) and keep diamond tier special being a very hard working tier not just someone can earn it right off the bat from relics and make evolved worthless.
 
AwsomeTheMyth said:
Yea sure, more ways to make your wallet dead. I’m still against it regardless whether they are rare or not, because now they’re just “Screw your Evolved Diamonds” which literally makes anyone who diamond evolved a fighter like Hair Apparent feel worthless, considering their SA can be downright even more powerful than golds and thus making you very agitated because you spent millions on your gold who became a diamond. What’s the use of shards and esssences anyways if they know they’re going to introduce Natural Diamonds anyway? or even why those natural diamonds? Could’ve just become 4th wave of golds (Excluding Elemental Exclusives) and keep diamond tier special being a very hard working tier not just someone can earn it right off the bat from relics and make evolved worthless.
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Well the way I see it is that not everyone has the time to grind for shards to get diamonds(whether it be because of school, work, or other such). This is a way for those people to get diamonds so they don't feel left out.

Besides, with how much upgrading them is probably going to cost, it still means they'll still have to put a good amount of effort into getting the most out of them.
 
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AwsomeTheMyth said:
Yea sure, more ways to make your wallet dead. I’m still against it regardless whether they are rare or not, because now they’re just “Screw your Evolved Diamonds” which literally makes anyone who diamond evolved a fighter like Hair Apparent feel worthless, considering their SA can be downright even more powerful than golds and thus making you very agitated because you spent millions on your gold who became a diamond. What’s the use of shards and esssences anyways if they know they’re going to introduce Natural Diamonds anyway? or even why those natural diamonds? Could’ve just become 4th wave of golds (Excluding Elemental Exclusives) and keep diamond tier special being a very hard working tier not just someone can earn it right off the bat from relics and make evolved worthless.
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Evolving diamonds lets you
A) have diamonds without relying on RNG,
B) use your personal favorite fighters in high streaks,
C) gives players something fun to work towards, and
D) allows for more of an abundance of diamonds, which makes prize fight defense teams even more difficult and provides a fun challenge.

If there were diamonds but no diamond evolution, anyone who has the luck to pull one will immediately have an advantage over everyone. And I think the idea that diamonds shouldn't have been added is just silly, (pardon my language) because if they hadn't been added I know a lot of players (including myself) would have gotten bored with this game too soon. So really, it makes sense to me. Also, as previously stated, it will take so many resources to build a natural diamond that it's a grind in and of itself.

I've seen this pessimistic attitude pop up a few times and I think it's undeserved. You can have your diamond Hair Apparent along with your Class Cutter.
 
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Considering these 12 natural diamonds are not gonna be the last of their kind and that they are op compared to lower tiers, the devs should have to adjust by removing shards and essences as requirements for diamond evolution.
 
xcapibara said:
Considering these 12 natural diamonds are not gonna be the last of their kind and that they are op compared to lower tiers, the devs should have to adjust by removing shards and essences as requirements for diamond evolution.
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That makes it too easy, don't you think? I mean, try fighting a 20k+ Dreadlocks. If people could just evolve those with a few golds, they'd be everywhere. As I've said before, diamonds, whether natural or not, are something special. Plus, the diamonds currently released aren't really going to be great on a defense team, especially compared to a team with, say, all diamond Dread, RE, and SG. Really, they're just going to get people a little higher in streaks. I don't think the devs need to adjust anything.
 
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cappatacus said:
That makes it too easy, don't you think? I mean, try fighting a 20k+ Dreadlocks. If people could just evolve those with a few golds, they'd be everywhere. As I've said before, diamonds, whether natural or not, are something special. Plus, the diamonds currently released aren't really going to be great on a defense team, especially compared to a team with, say, all diamond Dread, RE, and SG. Really, they're just going to get people a little higher in streaks. I don't think the devs need to adjust anything.
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With 12 natural diamonds and, in all likelihood, more coming in the future, with those also being present in various relics, obtainable by shards, etc, diamonds are now the new golds; they are normalized power creep, a regular tier on its own. Therefore, why should the requirements to evolve into said tier include essences? You don’t need those to evolve from bronze to silver or from silver to gold.
 
xcapibara said:
With 12 natural diamonds and, in all likelihood, more coming in the future, with those also being present in various relics, obtainable by shards, etc, diamonds are now the new golds; they are normalized power creep, a regular tier on its own. Therefore, why should the requirements to evolve into said tier include essences? You don’t need those to evolve from bronze to silver or from silver to gold.
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Diamonds are the most powerful tier. They're about twice as powerful as golds, which are already more than twice as powerful as silvers. They're also made so that they're rare - their drop rate is going to be. On top of that, as I said before and don't love repeating, building them will take an abundance of resources. They take work, they're not being handed out left and right.
 
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cappatacus said:
I'm going to hazard a guess and say you meant four. Only 25 golds till I get a diamond.....

Will there be diamond shards available in Elemental Prize Fights? I kinda hope not
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All fighters you get give 40 shards of the next tier, that gives you a 4% of what you need to the relic
 
cappatacus said:
Diamonds are the most powerful tier. They're about twice as powerful as golds, which are already more than twice as powerful as silvers. They're also made so that they're rare - their drop rate is going to be. On top of that, as I said before and don't love repeating, building them will take an abundance of resources. They take work, they're not being handed out left and right.
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You’re thinking in “now” terms; give it a few months of this new tier and you’ll see.
 
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xcapibara said:
You’re thinking in “now” terms; give it a few months of this new tier and you’ll see.
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And in a few months all high level players would have a full team of evolved diamonds anyway, so natural diamonds arw not going to change how teams would be in a few months. I personaly have 4 diamonds already with 2 more about to be evolved
 
Beldr447 said:
And in a few months all high level players would have a full team of evolved diamonds anyway, so natural diamonds arw not going to change how teams would be in a few months. I personaly have 4 diamonds already with 2 more about to be evolved
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Kinda proving my point there: with naturals incoming (and in all likelihood more coming in the future) plus what you said, diamonds are the new gold tier; normalized power creep, so why require essences to evolve?
 
xcapibara said:
Kinda proving my point there: with naturals incoming (and in all likelihood more coming in the future) plus what you said, diamonds are the new gold tier; normalized power creep, so why require essences to evolve?
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So you just want more diamonds because yes? What you suggest is just gonna make diamonds way more common. I could evolve about 6 more diamonds if elemental essence were removed. High level players have a big stock of golds from before diamonds released so you would just give them diamonds for free.
 
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Compared to Evolved Diamonds, Naturals appear 'easier' to earn (and are statistically better than Evolved overall) thanks to Diamond relics and shards. Naturals kinda makes Evolved Diamonds seem like over paying for a cubic zirconia.

You only need to pull 25 gold cards to be guaranteed 1 Natural Diamond.
1-10% PF earns you 1 gold every 3 days. Without opening relics, you'll get a Natural Diamond in about 3 months, I can't even collect 3 Essences of the same type in 3 months...and by opening relics you could (luckily) get a Natural much sooner (either hitting one outright or hitting a gold).

So, fine, getting a Natural Diamond might be 'easier' than an Evolved one, but, as cappatacus and other have said: Unlocking that potential comes at a much higher cost/grind. It takes 10 keys to fully unlock a Skill Tree. If Diamond keys are only obtainable via the Rift Battles and Coins, who knows how long/difficult that's gonna be. Then there's Skill Points/CanopyCoins...which you have to manage between any fighters you want to improve, if you're always short on those resources for Golds, image how that's gonna be for Natural Diamonds...

I dunno, we can only speculate until the update hits. But, I think I'll have a Natural Diamond before Evolving one (I currently have 15 Golds: 1 for each chara and 3 with dups. 1.5 Essence of each type) OTOH; there a good chance I'll have a Maxed out Evolved Diamond before Maxed out Natural one (Maxed out means Level 60 w/ full skill tree and Max Level MA).

Regardless, new variants are coming and I don't care what Rank they are at. It's Showtime!
 
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evilgordo said:
You only need to pull 25 gold cards to be guaranteed 1 Natural Diamond.
1-10% PF earns you 1 gold every 3 days. Without opening relics, you'll get a Natural Diamond in about 3 months, I can't even collect 3 Essences of the same type in 3 months...and by opening relics you could (luckily) get a Natural much sooner (either hitting one outright or hitting a gold).
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First off, you're describing the time to get 15 essences, because you largely can't help acquiring them all at the same time, which gives you 5 different diamonds.

As far as how long it take to get them, it's been about 5 months since Diamonds even became at thing, and I'm at about 4 essences per element, except dark and light, so that works out to getting 3 essences in each element in about 4 months, depending on activity? It's hard to say because my play has been super inconsistent during this period, and it makes a huge difference if you're getting the essence in Master mode dailies. But this is pretty consistent with what I was estimating months ago, because I was getting about one essence from one elemental prize fight to the next time it comes around, which is 5 weeks.


More generally I think that at the moment natural Diamonds are not really a threat to evolved ones. It's just like when I was starting out, it was a lot easier to work with an evolved character when you don't have all the resources to max out a true character at that level.

I mean, at some point if things continue on this trajectory there will be more diamonds and golds are going to be the new silvers, in terms of providing some good people to upgrade, but not being extremely useful, but I don't really see that as a disaster? It depends on how other things develop at the same time, and it's likely that we don't know everything that's going to happen. The fact that "natural diamond upgrades are going to depend on rift battles" is a statement that would not have made any sense 6 months ago is an example of this.
 
evilgordo said:
Compared to Evolved Diamonds, Naturals appear 'easier' to earn (and are statistically better than Evolved overall) thanks to Diamond relics and shards. Naturals kinda makes Evolved Diamonds seem like over paying for a cubic zirconia.

You only need to pull 25 gold cards to be guaranteed 1 Natural Diamond.
1-10% PF earns you 1 gold every 3 days. Without opening relics, you'll get a Natural Diamond in about 3 months, I can't even collect 3 Essences of the same type in 3 months...and by opening relics you could (luckily) get a Natural much sooner (either hitting one outright or hitting a gold).

So, fine, getting a Natural Diamond might be 'easier' than an Evolved one, but, as cappatacus and other have said: Unlocking that potential comes at a much higher cost/grind. It takes 10 keys to fully unlock a Skill Tree. If Diamond keys are only obtainable via the Rift Battles and Coins, who knows how long/difficult that's gonna be. Then there's Skill Points/CanopyCoins...which you have to manage between any fighters you want to improve, if you're always short on those resources for Golds, image how that's gonna be for Natural Diamonds...

I dunno, we can only speculate until the update hits. But, I think I'll have a Natural Diamond before Evolving one (I currently have 15 Golds: 1 for each chara and 3 with dups. 1.5 Essence of each type) OTOH; there a good chance I'll have a Maxed out Evolved Diamond before Maxed out Natural one (Maxed out means Level 60 w/ full skill tree and Max Level MA).

Regardless, new variants are coming and I don't care what Rank they are at. It's Showtime!
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I don't think you earn gold shards from being sent a gold in the mail, do you?

Regardless, your point still stands! Elemental Prize Fights give you (I believe) three relics each, plus you can earn a certain number of gold shards. Login rewards also gift you a Silver Lining Relic every month, and Theonite isn't so hard to grind up. Eventually, you will be guaranteed a Natural Diamond.

I honestly think my only complaint with Natural Diamonds is that it would suck to get a dupe before collecting them all lol
 
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