1. [2018/06/22]
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OFFICIAL: 4.0.2 Update Notes (Available now!)

Discussion in 'Official News & Announcements' started by Liam, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. BallotBoxer

    BallotBoxer Well-Known Member

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    That last one, the exploration function, reminds me of Metal Gear Solid V, sending troops to do missions to bring back resources, but sometimes be killed in action. Could be a fun in a away-from-game manager way.

    I just see no use in Fight Assist. I tried it once and my phone falls asleep before the match ends so one must keep tapping, interrupting the AI, so it keeps awake to completion. At that point, it is like, "why not just fight yourself if it takes so much monitoring?"

    A couple of anomalies in 4.02 that I don't want to create bug threads for:
    • Gold and Diamond Squiglys (like Poltergust, Bio-Exorcist, Love Crafted) that crawl out of the ground for an entrance animation do an unusual twitch when "SHOWTIME" announces the start of the fight. Silvers that swing and Bronzes that bow do not flinch like their higher-tier counterparts.
    • On a Rift match-up screen (surface level, you versus them), tapping on the opponent's portrait no longer brings up a menu to inspect their top fighters
     
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  2. Disasterrr19

    Disasterrr19 Member

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    I just set the "switch screen off" time to 5 minutes (since the fight cannot take more than 3 minutes). I usually do Dailies with Fight Assist during my work hours without paying much attention to them. My phone just lies beside me and every now and then I switch it on, tap on the next node, press "Fight!" button and forget about it for next 15-20 minutes. Rinse, repeat. 10 hours that I spend at work are usually enough to do two Master and one Expert Dailies (with Squigly one being a notable exception due to Doom modifier that still requires at least some brain usage).

    Fight Assist AI improvement allowed me to put one 15k+ fighter and one or two leechers without worrying much. Previously I was really irritated by the fact that my 21k Love Crafted could be easily defeated with just one 5k Ms.Fortune or Filia guided by much more superior AI...
     
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  3. Kurokazeee

    Kurokazeee New Member

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    Hi Nightjar,

    According to update notes, it should be damage = base damage x (100 - (defense - piercing))%, where (defense - piercing) >= 0.

    Thus, it should be wrong if you are doing less damage when attacking a defender with 0 defense.

     
  4. Kurokazeee

    Kurokazeee New Member

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    Why does crit resist work differently from the (piercing - defense) and (accuracy - resistance) interactions?

    From my tests in game, it seems that crit resist is not subtractive from the enemy crit chance but is multiplicative. As in, if the enemy has 50% crit chance and I have 50% crit resist, the actual crit chance becomes 25% instead of 0%.

    I hope the developers will consider making crit resist the same concept as the rest of the substats in game where it is subtractive. Furthermore, it will also be nice if crit resist also resists the precision buff as there is currently no counter to that buff. This will help make the crit resist substat more viable on defense as it is currently quite weak when used for defense fighters. One reason is because one would need to get 100% crit resist (a full 100 substat points) to fully counter crit-based fighters. The reason I am saying this is because reducing crit rate from 50% to 25% is not very effective to counter SA of claw and order or No egrets since those characters have many hits and you only need to land one crit to refresh the 4-5 s or 10s long debuffs. A subtractive interaction will at least make it possible to block out these SA if the attacker doesnt invest in crit rate to the same extent where the defender invests in crit resist.

    Currently, the defender should only invest in crit resist if he can get close to 100,% if he is aiming to block crit based SA. The attacker can get away with 50% crit and still quite reliably proc SA. With a subtractive interaction, the attacker needs to invest in crit rate to match the defender investment in crit resist to ensure SA proc which is more fair.
     
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  5. Kurokazeee

    Kurokazeee New Member

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    After 6 weeks of trying out the new rifts, I can most definitely say that PIERCING, with the doubling of effective damage, has made rift defense noticeably harder and significantly increased rift completion rates for those attacking my rift defense. Before PIERCING was introduced, I was able to get at least 1-2 defense wins in 70% of the rifts I play and with about 30% with the opponent unable to clear one of my nodes (I was around mid dia2 level ~1990 until 1 week ago). Now, 6 weeks post PIERCING, I only get defense wins in about 20% of the rifts, with "opponent cannot clear my node" almost not happening.

    Furthermore, many of the rift scores I see post PIERCING are very close to perfect score at 23,600~ish. Note that the maximum score possible if you instant win each battle in 1 hit, using blockbuster, and lose zero health (only possible with hacked modded apk) is (1000+360+300+200+100+2*250) = 2460*10 = 24600.

    My argument is that if legit players (dia2) can quite regularly get 23600 which is just a mere 1000 points from a hacked score of 24600, then there is a good possibility rift has been made too easy for attackers. for me, there is a clear 2000-3000 rift point jump for the average score of attackers on my rift in the last week vs 6 weeks ago (pre-piercing).
    I dont think my rift defense is too easy, since I have almost +100% hp, 50% defense on all characters and 80% meter gain for some characters. My boss node has max marquee big bands with 3s super slow mo, cripple decker, and hexy time. Some people are still doing perfect runs and completing boss with a single dia harle + 2000 fs SG, sheltered support (they didnt even need xenomorph to win boss node). This didnt seem to dent their score, and they still get 23,600 ish.

    For myself, I just cant understand why rift defense has to be nerfed almost every patch...

    History of patch changes for rift boss node:
    • rift started with +200% hp/att on boss node and sacrosanct which prevented doom cheese on boss node.
    • sacrosanct got removed and bonus reduced to +150%
    • catalysts introduced and bonus reduced to +100%.
    • catalysts got nerfed - armor rating, into thin air. defense wins got nerfed to 200 points.
    • this patch: catalysts got nerfed further - futile resistance and autoimmune (6s is super short compared to 15s). resistance got introduced, but defenders have to get max resist on 3 defenders on boss node vs attacker simply countering with max accuracy on one xeno or other carry. (see the difference in difficulty of 1 vs 3 movesets?)
    • this patch: piercing introduced which effectively doubles damage on boss node. I cant see why people wouldnt have at least 1 carry with max piercing for boss node after 6 weeks postpatch. furthermore, armor got nerfed to 20% instead of 25% and piercing pierces armor.
    • This means vs a max piercing opponent, my heavy metal with 50% defense and 2.5 stacks of armor would have same effective hp this patch as a heavy metal with 50% defense previous patch without armor proc (the case when heavy metal was cursed or hexed). This implies that rather than pulling out a curse or hex fighter which may not be dps optimized, it is easier to use ANY max piercing fighter (which basically brute force ignoring this defensive SA of heavy metal).
    In general, the overall trend of defense nerfs has been disheartening for me since I have invested especially heavily in stall characters like Last Hope (who is also great against xeno cheese), Big Top, GI jazz etc. Although I try to "counter the counters" of doublicious MA chaos, hex from double/red velvet, or inverse polarity debuff through stacking hp,crit resist,resistance, I still see some people brute forcing (and winning) with piercing, speculatively since it is slower to use a low dps hex char or rely on chaos marquee bleeds.

    One last point regarding game balance I would like to raise is that, in prize fights, the top 10% or top 100 routinely gets very high streaks at more than 50 or 60. What I am trying to say is that good attackers, even before piercing was introduced, can regularly win against prize fight diamond defenders with +500% hp/att, much less a boss node with +100% and 3 catalysts. (It is hard to squeeze the 400% difference in effective hp from catalysts). My question here: Why is there a need to nerf rift defense nodes consistently since the start of rift, considering the rift stat bonus is already so low compared to what is regularly achieved in prize fights? Rift node modifiers like jinx, live wire etc are arguably no stronger than prize fight modifiers like emission spectra or permafrost for elemental prize fights...
     
    #105 Kurokazeee, Dec 1, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 1:59 AM
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  6. Sairus

    Sairus AKA Cellsai
    Moderator Hidden Variable Dev

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    @Kurokazeee both your last posts in here have been really great breakdowns of the recent stat changes. I've passed them on so the engineers can dig into them. I can't really make any concrete resolutions about them, but leave them with us for a bit while they're discussed.
     
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  7. Dusty00

    Dusty00 Active Member

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    Hey Kuro you’ve pointed the issue with Piercing when it first came out and I agree with you generally that it should be looked into.

    As a regular D1 Rifter, I just want to chime in and say that there may be more than just Piercing that’s been effecting overall attacker scores.

    1. I hang out in discord and people share their load outs /stats. I don’t see too many top20 players with full perfect sets with 50% piercing, yet. Most people have around 15-33% just because how difficult it is to get perfect stat moves and how much it costs to lv15 then. Though, i can confirm that even with 15% piercing it does make a difference in speed of clearing nodes. though you are usually giving up another key stat such as less HP and def, making attackers more of a glass cannon and prone to die unless you have multiple Vals with TC (as most people do in D1)

    2. People have figured out more and more optimal ways to get around catas and cheese defense. SSalt corner spam is just broken right now, for example. People are also able to utilize curse more, which greatly soften defense in general.

    3. Armor was nerfed to 20% and it is very noticeable.

    4. More and more people are upgrading their moves to lv9-12 and the reduce CD + increase in power helps reduce rift time.

    5. With EXP boost introduced, people are able to bring their characters up to a more competitive level of 50-60 diamond characters. More stats = faster.

    All in all I agree that Piercing makes atk units more powerful and needs to be looked at, but thought to point out there are other factors in what you’ve been experiencing.

    Rift is due for a major patch, which sounds like it will happen the next patch. Can’t wait to hear how Devs have been working towards it!
     
  8. Kurokazeee

    Kurokazeee New Member

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    Thanks Dusty! I agree with all of your points and that there are certainly a lot of other factors. Every defense has a way around it and I think a lot more players are varying their attackers, using buff removal, curse, hex, doublicious etc.

    Also want to thank Cellsai for responding.
    I love this game and I am definitely very happy with all the great work the devs have put in and this game is certainly a lot more varied, with so many new character variants and all the new substats this patch, but also in general the improvements made every patch were great.

    It was not my intention to complain so much, and I still keep playing this game right now (a lot) because there are so many good parts to it despite my complaints. Personally, I loved and focused a lot on the rift defense part, buying catalysts and upgrading defense fighters to have strong lvl 12-15 movesets and high levels. For me, I actually prioritized diamonding pure defense characters like GI jazz and Last Hope over offense characters, and even have a couple of defense diamond duplicates despite the cost of losing rift diversity points to try for that near-unbreakable node. This is probably why I personally felt so sensitive about the changes this patch.

    All in all, I am kinda trying to work with the new changes as a more "defense-oriented" player (my attacking skill and technique isnt great). It's a great opportunity to perhaps try out new defense strategies to match the new meta. (On the bright side, meta changes though disruptive, will keep things fresh in the game). Regardless, I am looking forward to the next patch on rift and all the great changes / balancing to come.

    Thanks for bearing with my probably 3-4 rants on piercing the last 6 weeks....
     
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  9. Kurokazeee

    Kurokazeee New Member

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    Hi Liam, from your example on Inkling, I am assuming ACCURACY increases the base chance of activation i.e. Resonant Evil 10% armor chance goes to 15% chance if you have 50 ACCURACY.

    I don't think this has been asked yet, so I would like to ask how does ACCURACY / RESISTANCE interact with these two SAs that resist debuffs, and for benched SA:
    1. Private Dick SA2 : Gain a 50% RESISTANCE to all DEBUFFS - does ACCURACY increase this to 75% chance, or does this count as in-built RESISTANCE? If the latter is true, can you equip RESISTANCE in movesets to increase RESISTANCE further? i.e. 50%+50% = 100% where 50% of this can be nullified by ACCURACY?
    2. Just Kitten SA1: 50% chance when suffering a DEBUFF to immediately convert that DEBUFF to a stack of PRECISION. - does ACCURACY increase this to 75% chance?
    3. Sketchy SA2: Inflict slow and curse for 10s when opponent tags in. - does RESISTANCE prevent this? does the ACCURACY of benched sketchy or the current fighter, which one counts for calculation of negating RESISTANCE?
     
    #109 Kurokazeee, Dec 5, 2019 at 8:52 AM
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 9:28 AM
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  10. Sairus

    Sairus AKA Cellsai
    Moderator Hidden Variable Dev

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    I did some investigative reporting.
    Meaning I asked around the office:

     
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  11. Disasterrr19

    Disasterrr19 Member

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    While Cellsai definitely has more reliable information from other Devs themselves, I am not absolutely sure that PD's SA2 works in the same way as RESISTANCE stat. Just to say, PD's SA2 still can negate Catalysts and Fight Modifiers, while RESISTANCE can't. I was pretty sure that SA2 and RESISTANCE work independently, giving PD a 50% chance to resist ANY debuff and then, if SA2 does not kick in, up to 50% chance to resist debuff applied by opponent, but not Catalyst (this second RESISTANCE can be countered with ACCURACY).

    In terms of Sketchy sitting on the bench and still applying her debuffs - I think that Kurokazeee was interested if Sketchy's ACCURACY can negate the RESISTANCE of opponent that is tagging in (since it's her SA2 that applies the debuffs, it would be only logical that it's her business to overcome that RESISTANCE with her own ACCURACY).
     

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